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Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. All of the bans on them specifically still allow them to b

Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. All of the bans on them specifically still allow them to be used for this purpose, because they are indeed safe enough. It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. The Alan Turing lie is laughable, Lupron wasn't even invented until 20+ years after Alan Turing was given hormone injections. The falsehoods you're spouting have the hallmarks of coming from Twitter infographics meant to enrage you. Trans care has been made into a wedge issue by US politicians as a way of taking advantage of people's ignorance about the topic, and their knee-jerk dislike of gender non-conformity. An incredible amount of non-sense is being spread, the same as it was about gay people in the 70's and 80's. > In fact, "trans kids" has never been a thing until about two or three years ago. Another blatant lie, but it's a fun opportunity to talk about the first trans kid in the US, Agnes Torres. She started taking hormone therapy as a child in 1950. Nearly 80 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Torres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Torres Doctors declared her intersex and she was given a fast track to having her documents changed. She went on to marry and have a nice normal life, because people left her alone. Trans people today could have the same if not for the vicious ignorance propagated by political parties looking for fresh meat.

bletchp 3y ago
> Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. That's a different treatment though, because puberty eventually resumes. Halting it entirely is more akin to the castrati children [1] who had their puberty physically blocked through removal of testicles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato
- mitt_romney_12 3y ago
  Puberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - bletchp 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - mckern 3y ago
    Puberty blockers are claimed to be non-permanent. However, that can't be verified at present [0]. In light of that, such a claim being made in the first place is definitely medical malpractice of some sorts. Also, I do not think medical sources from America are reliable for this topic. The UK and the EU have moved away from gender-affirming care and designated it an experimental treatment. Medical and psychological associations in the US have been captured by such activists and are pushing false rhetoric such as "the science is settled" and "we have medical consensus" (note the misrepresentation here; consensus does not imply evidence-based). US have a problem where radical activists have captured many influential cultural institutions. Anyone who disagree is automatically designated a "right-winger", "conservative", "white supremacist", "oppressor", "racist", "sexist", "homophobe", "transphobe", etc. This should be obvious to anyone looking from outside the anglo-sphere. For things to get to the point where US can't even recognise what a medical scandal is is frankly appalling, especially when their counterparts in Europe is able to do so. [0] https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/11/15/nyt-questions-puberty-blockers/ https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/11/15/nyt-questions-pube...
    - theprincess 3y ago
      > The UK and the EU have moved away from gender-affirming care and designated it an experimental treatment. The UK and EU are hardly a paradise for trans people. Until recently they even REQUIRED trans people to be sterilized, I suppose under the dual assumptions that 1.) they weren't fit to have children and 2.) if there's a genetic component to being transgender it's best to weed it out. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/world/europe/european-court-strikes-down-required-sterilization-for-transgender-people.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/world/europe/european-cou... (this was only stricken down in 2013) These days, you'll notice a lot of europeans calling to clamp down on transgender people because they'd prefer for them to be gay. Conversion therapy is conversion therapy, however, and whether you do it US style where you try to make someone a good straight Christian or European style where you try to make them a feminine male or butch female, it's still wrong. As for sterilization, people bring this up without pointing out that we can bank sperm and eggs. A treatment plan for trans youth can wait until they reach a tanner stage (these are the stages of puberty) where they can bank before starting puberty blockers. That is more reasonable than an outright ban. As for Lupron's side effects, parents are informed about possible side effects. Just like with precocious puberty. It remains telling that families are allowed to access these treatments for some reasons but not others. The double standard betrays prejudice and political meddling in the affairs of parents and doctors.
TurkishPoptart 3y ago
>Agnes Torres Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze. There is no explanation for feelings of "gender dysphoria" rising by 1000% among young girls except for it being a mental craze, with all the encouragement and support among themselves, in social media, and among the school administrators. [1] [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317 https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seduc...
- test098 3y ago
  > However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze what "explosion"? the only explosion is the right wing suddenly realizing trans people exist and turning it into a political issue. have you considered that the reason you're seeing more about "trans kids" or people being more open about gender dysphoria because it's more socially acceptable to be LGBTQ than it was 50 years ago? or maybe because right wing outrage is profitable?
- theprincess 3y ago
  > Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. Agnes Torres was not intersex, she was merely classed as such which allowed her to live a normal life. Funny enough, your comment itself shows why this was successful. You see intersex as more legitimate and because of that you "give it a pass." Agnes Torres was transgender, but was treated as legitimate back in the 1950's. Being treated like a normal human being allowed her to live a good life back then, free from hate. It goes to show, if people would just allow trans people to live their lives, they could blend in with society. The thing holding them back is just... prejudice. How sad.
  - peanutcrisis 3y ago
    I'm not sure what the situation is like now concerning prejudice towards trans people in the US, but looking from the outside, I'm aware of the incredible amount of bad faith coming from medical and activist organisations from within the US. For instance, any legitimate discussion or criticism about gender-affirming care, possible social cause that's driving the increase of trans-identifying teenagers (confounded by high rates of autism, mental illness, trauma), or how certain trans rights infringes on women's rights, are framed as "transphobic" by these medical and activist organisation. This would also mean that statements made by countries that are arguably more progressive than the US (i.e. UK and European countries) about the current trans issue would fall into that category as well. Now, against the backdrop of the capture of cultural institutions by radical activists in the US who share a common foundation (critical social justice), it's hard to be sympathetic towards your claim that prejudice is what's holding them back, when the actions of the medical and activist organisations in the US is consistent with the silencing of valid criticism that other factions of the critical social justice adherents (i.e. race) have a track record of. In other words, it's hard to believe that the medical and activist organisations in the US are actually acting in good faith; they are weaponising our empathy for marginalised groups to silence legitimate criticisms about a medical scandal and the ideological foundations driving the scandal. Edit: Anyone of sound mind can clearly evaluate that my point isn't transphobic. The reply to this comment is a demonstration of what's wrong with the US.
tinus_hn 3y ago
> It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back.
- theprincess 3y ago
  > A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back. About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by the puberty of their natal sex in such a way as to draw constant negative attention. While it is very reasonable to want to lower that 2% rate down even further, attempting to rip care away from that other 98% is not reasonable. Just prejudice, masquerading as concern for children, same as the 80's when "save the children" was having a national campaign against homosexual rights. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1888989122000283 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S188898912...
  - peanutcrisis 3y ago
    If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology. That much is obvious to someone who does not live in the anglo-sphere. To address your claims, I'd recommend you check out Hannah Barnes' book, "Time to Think". This much should show that the study you're relying on is dubious, and transitively, your rhetoric.
    - theprincess 3y ago
      > If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology. You've really been running wild in this comments section, as have I. I can see that we're both very interested in this topic, but from different sides. What I'll point out here again, is that you continue to paint reputable organizations that disagree with you as "ideological" while maintaining yourself as some sort of unbiased outside observer. This is blatantly untrue. You are the one trying to change the facts being reported by reputable sources. You are the activist who is engaged in a campaign of attempting to ideologically modify unbiased institutions. I think the trans topic can really rile people up, and there's no shortage of think pieces of conspiracy theories about it. Same as has existed around lots of minority groups that caught the attention and ire of the larger public. You aren't the unbiased observer however. You are an activist, and it shows in your writing.

bletchp 3y ago

> Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. That's a different treatment though, because puberty eventually resumes. Halting it entirely is more akin to the castrati children [1] who had their puberty physically blocked through removal of testicles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato

mitt_romney_12 3y ago
Puberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bletchp 3y ago
  [flagged]
- mckern 3y ago
  Puberty blockers are claimed to be non-permanent. However, that can't be verified at present [0]. In light of that, such a claim being made in the first place is definitely medical malpractice of some sorts. Also, I do not think medical sources from America are reliable for this topic. The UK and the EU have moved away from gender-affirming care and designated it an experimental treatment. Medical and psychological associations in the US have been captured by such activists and are pushing false rhetoric such as "the science is settled" and "we have medical consensus" (note the misrepresentation here; consensus does not imply evidence-based). US have a problem where radical activists have captured many influential cultural institutions. Anyone who disagree is automatically designated a "right-winger", "conservative", "white supremacist", "oppressor", "racist", "sexist", "homophobe", "transphobe", etc. This should be obvious to anyone looking from outside the anglo-sphere. For things to get to the point where US can't even recognise what a medical scandal is is frankly appalling, especially when their counterparts in Europe is able to do so. [0] https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/11/15/nyt-questions-puberty-blockers/ https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/11/15/nyt-questions-pube...
  - theprincess 3y ago
    > The UK and the EU have moved away from gender-affirming care and designated it an experimental treatment. The UK and EU are hardly a paradise for trans people. Until recently they even REQUIRED trans people to be sterilized, I suppose under the dual assumptions that 1.) they weren't fit to have children and 2.) if there's a genetic component to being transgender it's best to weed it out. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/world/europe/european-court-strikes-down-required-sterilization-for-transgender-people.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/world/europe/european-cou... (this was only stricken down in 2013) These days, you'll notice a lot of europeans calling to clamp down on transgender people because they'd prefer for them to be gay. Conversion therapy is conversion therapy, however, and whether you do it US style where you try to make someone a good straight Christian or European style where you try to make them a feminine male or butch female, it's still wrong. As for sterilization, people bring this up without pointing out that we can bank sperm and eggs. A treatment plan for trans youth can wait until they reach a tanner stage (these are the stages of puberty) where they can bank before starting puberty blockers. That is more reasonable than an outright ban. As for Lupron's side effects, parents are informed about possible side effects. Just like with precocious puberty. It remains telling that families are allowed to access these treatments for some reasons but not others. The double standard betrays prejudice and political meddling in the affairs of parents and doctors.

TurkishPoptart 3y ago

>Agnes Torres Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze. There is no explanation for feelings of "gender dysphoria" rising by 1000% among young girls except for it being a mental craze, with all the encouragement and support among themselves, in social media, and among the school administrators. [1] [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317 https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seduc...

test098 3y ago
> However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze what "explosion"? the only explosion is the right wing suddenly realizing trans people exist and turning it into a political issue. have you considered that the reason you're seeing more about "trans kids" or people being more open about gender dysphoria because it's more socially acceptable to be LGBTQ than it was 50 years ago? or maybe because right wing outrage is profitable?
theprincess 3y ago
> Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. Agnes Torres was not intersex, she was merely classed as such which allowed her to live a normal life. Funny enough, your comment itself shows why this was successful. You see intersex as more legitimate and because of that you "give it a pass." Agnes Torres was transgender, but was treated as legitimate back in the 1950's. Being treated like a normal human being allowed her to live a good life back then, free from hate. It goes to show, if people would just allow trans people to live their lives, they could blend in with society. The thing holding them back is just... prejudice. How sad.
- peanutcrisis 3y ago
  I'm not sure what the situation is like now concerning prejudice towards trans people in the US, but looking from the outside, I'm aware of the incredible amount of bad faith coming from medical and activist organisations from within the US. For instance, any legitimate discussion or criticism about gender-affirming care, possible social cause that's driving the increase of trans-identifying teenagers (confounded by high rates of autism, mental illness, trauma), or how certain trans rights infringes on women's rights, are framed as "transphobic" by these medical and activist organisation. This would also mean that statements made by countries that are arguably more progressive than the US (i.e. UK and European countries) about the current trans issue would fall into that category as well. Now, against the backdrop of the capture of cultural institutions by radical activists in the US who share a common foundation (critical social justice), it's hard to be sympathetic towards your claim that prejudice is what's holding them back, when the actions of the medical and activist organisations in the US is consistent with the silencing of valid criticism that other factions of the critical social justice adherents (i.e. race) have a track record of. In other words, it's hard to believe that the medical and activist organisations in the US are actually acting in good faith; they are weaponising our empathy for marginalised groups to silence legitimate criticisms about a medical scandal and the ideological foundations driving the scandal. Edit: Anyone of sound mind can clearly evaluate that my point isn't transphobic. The reply to this comment is a demonstration of what's wrong with the US.

tinus_hn 3y ago

> It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back.

theprincess 3y ago
> A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back. About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by the puberty of their natal sex in such a way as to draw constant negative attention. While it is very reasonable to want to lower that 2% rate down even further, attempting to rip care away from that other 98% is not reasonable. Just prejudice, masquerading as concern for children, same as the 80's when "save the children" was having a national campaign against homosexual rights. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1888989122000283 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S188898912...
- peanutcrisis 3y ago
  If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology. That much is obvious to someone who does not live in the anglo-sphere. To address your claims, I'd recommend you check out Hannah Barnes' book, "Time to Think". This much should show that the study you're relying on is dubious, and transitively, your rhetoric.
  - theprincess 3y ago
    > If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology. You've really been running wild in this comments section, as have I. I can see that we're both very interested in this topic, but from different sides. What I'll point out here again, is that you continue to paint reputable organizations that disagree with you as "ideological" while maintaining yourself as some sort of unbiased outside observer. This is blatantly untrue. You are the one trying to change the facts being reported by reputable sources. You are the activist who is engaged in a campaign of attempting to ideologically modify unbiased institutions. I think the trans topic can really rile people up, and there's no shortage of think pieces of conspiracy theories about it. Same as has existed around lots of minority groups that caught the attention and ire of the larger public. You aren't the unbiased observer however. You are an activist, and it shows in your writing.