5 ms·
A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing
by superseeplus 3y ago
A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed to discourage driving and encourage public transit on the other side.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y agoThe opposition from NJ is the double dipping of already high bridge and tunnel tolls along with the new congestion toll. They also have a really meager fixed discount for motorcycles which has diminished in value as the tolls have risen over the years.
- Jolter 3y agoWhy should motorcycles have a discount? How big should it be in your opinion, and why?
- RhysU 3y agoMotorcycles don't cause congestion. Motorcycles can travel through congestion when permitted to lanesplit.
- acdha 3y agoThey’re not as bad as cars but they still take up a fair amount of space and pollute (noise, fumes) heavily. A modest discount seems appropriate but they definitely should still cost more than transit.
- RhysU 3y agoWhen moving, they take up the space of about 2 bicycles riding safely. When parked, about 4 bicycles. It's a congestion tax not a fumes tax.
- wizofaus 3y agoI'd be keen to charge vehicles based on noise pollution, but I'm not sure how feasible it is. Does anyone know if it's ever been trialed anywhere?
- arrosenberg 3y agoSeems like it would be easy enough - you register your car, each model has an average and max decibel rating. Your congestion charge includes a factor for that - Harley's pay a bigger markup and EVs pay next to nothing for that particular thing.
- Jolter 3y agoIt’s too easy to modify the exhaust on a motorcycle, so I don’t think this would be practical. Local laws here are very strict about noise levels, and vehicles are inspected regularly, yet still there are a lot of drivers with modified machines that can wake up the dead when revved.
- eggy 3y agoThey do not pollute heavily fume-wise, and most motorcycles other than Harleys or sport bikes with racing exhausts with the dB component removed are not that loud. I get 60 mpg and the engine is efficient. A car gets half or less that mpg, so is 2 to 3X more polluting than a motorcycle when you have 1-to-1 driver/passenger comparison. 2 people on a moto is even better than a car.
- Jolter 3y agoMost motorbikes I’ve been near have had significantly more smelly exhaust than a modern car. I don’t think their catalytic converters are as efficient, or maybe they’ve been broken? Anyway, I don’t think the fees aim to improve pollution, just congestion.
- eggy 3y agoMotos emit less CO2, but more NO, however, most motos are now adopting the EU emissions standards with Euro 5 for motos, so I think that gap is not as bad as when Myth Busters did their episode on it. Motos are certainly less congestive especially with most cars being single driver and no passengers going into NYC.
- Jolter 3y agoIf you do the math on the CO2, the emissions per passenger mile is significantly worse for a motorbike than for subway or bus -- regardless of the power source for the train or bus. But, again, I don't think this proposed fee/tax is aiming at pollution or carbon emissions per se, more at the congestion itself.
- chrisweekly 3y agoNot OP but: mcycles don't contribute as much to congestion given their smaller size and maneuverability. Also they get about 50mpg.
- throw__away7391 3y agoMotorcycles should be charged according to the decibel volume of their engine.
- eyelidlessness 3y agoI’m extraordinarily noise sensitive and I find this appealing for emotional reasons. But I don’t think it’s good policy nonetheless. IME motorcycle drivers are generally among the most respectful about the noise they make, relative to all drivers of all vehicle types. They scoot through and move on. I’d definitely like to charge drivers for their relative noise impact, but I’d start with the recreational sports car drivers and work my way up to industrial vehicle operators who don’t seem to give any fucks, before I even bat an eye at anyone on two wheels.
- durumu 3y agoIn NYC specifically, by far the loudest vehicles are dirt bikes — people ride them through streets with absolutely no regard for safety or pedestrians, running reds and honking and revving their engines. I think what you have said is generally true in other US cities I’ve been to though.
- eyelidlessness 3y agoI can definitely acknowledge this varies by location! I’ve been in Seattle for 20 years, and only in the last year or so have I come to terms with the completely superfluous sports car noise as a normal thing here, but it was everyday life in Virginia when I lived there the 20 years prior.
- throw__away7391 3y ago
- kevin_thibedeau 3y agoFor motorcycles, London gives 100% off the congestion charge. The NY thruway is half off but PANYNJ tolls are just $1 off.
- joecool1029 3y agoLess wear on the roads (due to dramatically lower weight). Less space taken up, more efficient in urban scenarios. Tolls, especially bridge tolls, should scale with the weight of the vehicle.
- LeanderK 3y agoI think the size of the vehicle is more important because the main issue is the congestion
- bilalq 3y agoThere's more reason for NJ residents to take issue with this. In central jersey, it costs at least $20/person for a round trip ticket. If you go with your family or a group of friends filling a 5 seat car, the train costs $100 just to get into the city and then get hit with whatever additional costs you have for the next few subway rides. Gas, parking, and carpool bridge/tunnel toll prices don't add up to anywhere near that amount. The reality is that this ends up being a regressive plan where high income earners benefit and everyone else just has to deal with increased burdens.
- exhilaration 3y agoThis is great for New Jersey, let's keep those dining and tourism dollars local, build up more businesses, create jobs so people don't have to commute to NYC. Time to bring in a new NBA team!
- comte7092 3y agoRegressive if you ignore all of the other costs associated with driving. Drivers always love to make this argument, but it presupposes that everyone already owns and insures a car. At the end of the day it’s car dependence that is regressive.
- ericmay 3y agoYea it also ignores that if everybody stopped riding the $100 train then you’d never actually be able to drive into the city, let alone park anywhere for under $100. Also, this is a deliberate choice. They can improve train services and lower costs. Idk why people who ostensibly are market oriented are so fixated on current prices and assuming they can’t change or be improved upon. Germany is an example $49 for a ticket for all (I think) transit. Another thing while I’m at it - how much does your car, insurance, gas, maintenance, tires, and other things cost? How much money per month are you paying to pay for the roads and highways? Etc. It’s hard to do a fair apples to apples comparison here either way.
- cogman10 3y ago
- jimbob45 3y ago[flagged]
- deepsquirrelnet 3y agoUntil primaries are over, primary candidates of national parties mostly attack their opponents… (hint: their opponents are other candidates in their primary)
- gbear605 3y agoA more charitable interpretation is people have suddenly been reminded that he exists and of what he did. I don’t think that anyone is getting paid to do propaganda against Republican primary candidates on Hacker News. That goes doubly so for candidates that have a functionally zero percent chance of winning (Christie knows that - he’s just there to attack Trump).
- iambateman 3y agoI think it’s availability heuristic. There are lots of people I don’t criticize because they’re irrelevant. As soon as they make themselves relevant…they are opened up to both more enthusiasm and critique.
- insanitybit 3y ago> Nobody was talking about Christie at all for years I've been hearing about Christie for absolute ages, no clue at all what you're on about.
- superseeplus 3y agoTalking about the decline of NJ Transit and the specific gubernatorial policies that led to it is relevant in a debate about congestion pricing. This would have been the case even if he was not a presidential candidate.
- Brian_K_White 3y agoIt is entirely explicable why anyone is talking about Christie this week and not last week.
- 3y ago
- devb 3y agoDo you have a citation for the MTA poaching unhappy NJT workers? I've only seen people leaving the MTA for NJT, and not a single instance of the opposite.