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The vast majority of people take the standard deduction, so offering a "here's what we think you owe, but if you disagree feel free to do the full return" form

The vast majority of people take the standard deduction, so offering a "here's what we think you owe, but if you disagree feel free to do the full return" form would be a huge efficiency gain. Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good.

elicash 3y ago
I know I'm likely better off with the standard deduction, but I still have to check both ways to know for sure that's the case for me. So standard deduction never actually saves me time even though post Trump tax reform I generally take it.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  But surely, you're on the cusp of itemizing. Or have dramatically changing circumstances year to year. Otherwise, you're just wasting time. FWIW, we are in the "on the cusp" boat. Another year or two and our mortgage interest vs principle equation will put us in the standard deduction range. And short of massive changes to either tax law or our income, we'll remain there.
  - elicash 3y ago
    Last year I had lots of investments that I hadn’t previously. This year I sold a home. Next year, I’m planning to get married. The year after that, a new home? Maybe these are “drastic” changes but they aren’t unusual across the population. Not planning on kids, so that means I’ll have fewer changes than most. But the person I plan to marry has significant changes to income based on commission so I’ll probably be doing taxes this way for a long time!
jrochkind1 3y ago
> The vast majority of people take the standard deduction Unless they are a homeowner, probably. Part of the issue is that the US tax code is a lot more complex than most countries. (And the homeowner-targetted deductions are kind of insane and bad policy too). Still, I don't disagree with the basic premise. They probably know enough to know if itemizing your homeowner-related things would be better for you, and do it that way. You can ask for adjustments, or you could always ignore what they calculate for you and do it all yourself from scratch if you wanted to, a thing I believe you _can_ do in European countries that generally calculate your income taxes for you? Also, I wish our tax code werent' so insane.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  90% of federal tax filers in the US do not itemize, which includes the majority of home owners.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > 90% of federal tax filers in the US do not itemize, which includes the majority of home owners. Isn't that a relatively recent thing? IIRC, the standard deduction was massively increased a few years ago.
    - mikestew 3y ago
      Isn't that a relatively recent thing? Yes, it is. What difference do you think that makes in the present day?
      - zaroth 3y ago
        It makes a difference because policy changes don’t happen instantly. Something we can do differently that seems obvious today could have been a disastrous policy just a few years ago. The optics of the IRS sending out bills for thousands of dollars more than people rightfully owe are bad, to say the least.
    - cpuguy83 3y ago
      I owned a house from 2012-2018. Still wound up with the standard deduction every year.
      - sumtechguy 3y ago
        Paid mine off in 2008. I have been standard deduction ever since. My taxes take about 30 mins to do with one of the major bits of software. I could go real cheap and just copy the numbers around from year to year and do the math and mail it in. But at this point it is getting more and more silly that the IRS does not just mail us a post card with a link saying 'is this right?'. Pretty much all the ways I make money have a 10 form that they are filing with the IRS. I am fairly sure I am not alone.
tivert 3y ago
> The vast majority of people take the standard deduction, so offering a "here's what we think you owe, but if you disagree feel free to do the full return" form would be a huge efficiency gain. > Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good. And the comments advocating for automatic tax filing seem to be ignoring Chesterton's fence. They seem to be viewing it solely through the lens of revenue collection. However, IIRC, for better or worse, one of the big levers the US government uses to influence individual behavior is incentives implemented via tax policy. It stands to reason that mechanism would stop working if individuals could avoid interacting with the tax rules.
- Taywee 3y ago
  People care about what they're paying in taxes whether they're manually punching in the numbers or not. For most people, you just put the numbers in the right places when filing taxes, and don't consider the policy implications or causes at that moment, because it makes no difference at that point. You consider those effects when voting. Removing manual filing won't stop people from voting on tax policy.
RandallBrown 3y ago
I wasn't arguing for or against any system. Just wondering how it could work when the government doesn't know about a significant amount of my deductions and I ended up itemizing last year.
akira2501 3y ago
> Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good. Which makes sense in a lot of spheres where's there's obligations on both sides. Unfortunately, if myself and the IRS come a disagreement about my filings, I can end up in jail or at the very least deal with an expensive criminal prosecution. If the IRS is wrong, then there's effectively no penalty for them. The government wants it both ways. People understandably have some apprehension about this.
- jjnoakes 3y ago
  > Unfortunately, if myself and the IRS come a disagreement about my filings, I can end up in jail or at the very least deal with an expensive criminal prosecution. I think there's a huge gap between facing an audit in most circumstances and those two outcomes...

elicash 3y ago

I know I'm likely better off with the standard deduction, but I still have to check both ways to know for sure that's the case for me. So standard deduction never actually saves me time even though post Trump tax reform I generally take it.

alistairSH 3y ago
But surely, you're on the cusp of itemizing. Or have dramatically changing circumstances year to year. Otherwise, you're just wasting time. FWIW, we are in the "on the cusp" boat. Another year or two and our mortgage interest vs principle equation will put us in the standard deduction range. And short of massive changes to either tax law or our income, we'll remain there.
- elicash 3y ago
  Last year I had lots of investments that I hadn’t previously. This year I sold a home. Next year, I’m planning to get married. The year after that, a new home? Maybe these are “drastic” changes but they aren’t unusual across the population. Not planning on kids, so that means I’ll have fewer changes than most. But the person I plan to marry has significant changes to income based on commission so I’ll probably be doing taxes this way for a long time!

jrochkind1 3y ago

> The vast majority of people take the standard deduction Unless they are a homeowner, probably. Part of the issue is that the US tax code is a lot more complex than most countries. (And the homeowner-targetted deductions are kind of insane and bad policy too). Still, I don't disagree with the basic premise. They probably know enough to know if itemizing your homeowner-related things would be better for you, and do it that way. You can ask for adjustments, or you could always ignore what they calculate for you and do it all yourself from scratch if you wanted to, a thing I believe you _can_ do in European countries that generally calculate your income taxes for you? Also, I wish our tax code werent' so insane.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
90% of federal tax filers in the US do not itemize, which includes the majority of home owners.
- tivert 3y ago
  > 90% of federal tax filers in the US do not itemize, which includes the majority of home owners. Isn't that a relatively recent thing? IIRC, the standard deduction was massively increased a few years ago.
  - mikestew 3y ago
    Isn't that a relatively recent thing? Yes, it is. What difference do you think that makes in the present day?
    - zaroth 3y ago
      It makes a difference because policy changes don’t happen instantly. Something we can do differently that seems obvious today could have been a disastrous policy just a few years ago. The optics of the IRS sending out bills for thousands of dollars more than people rightfully owe are bad, to say the least.
  - cpuguy83 3y ago
    I owned a house from 2012-2018. Still wound up with the standard deduction every year.
    - sumtechguy 3y ago
      Paid mine off in 2008. I have been standard deduction ever since. My taxes take about 30 mins to do with one of the major bits of software. I could go real cheap and just copy the numbers around from year to year and do the math and mail it in. But at this point it is getting more and more silly that the IRS does not just mail us a post card with a link saying 'is this right?'. Pretty much all the ways I make money have a 10 form that they are filing with the IRS. I am fairly sure I am not alone.

tivert 3y ago

> The vast majority of people take the standard deduction, so offering a "here's what we think you owe, but if you disagree feel free to do the full return" form would be a huge efficiency gain. > Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good. And the comments advocating for automatic tax filing seem to be ignoring Chesterton's fence. They seem to be viewing it solely through the lens of revenue collection. However, IIRC, for better or worse, one of the big levers the US government uses to influence individual behavior is incentives implemented via tax policy. It stands to reason that mechanism would stop working if individuals could avoid interacting with the tax rules.

Taywee 3y ago
People care about what they're paying in taxes whether they're manually punching in the numbers or not. For most people, you just put the numbers in the right places when filing taxes, and don't consider the policy implications or causes at that moment, because it makes no difference at that point. You consider those effects when voting. Removing manual filing won't stop people from voting on tax policy.

RandallBrown 3y ago

I wasn't arguing for or against any system. Just wondering how it could work when the government doesn't know about a significant amount of my deductions and I ended up itemizing last year.

akira2501 3y ago

> Your comment seems like a prime case of perfect being the enemy of good. Which makes sense in a lot of spheres where's there's obligations on both sides. Unfortunately, if myself and the IRS come a disagreement about my filings, I can end up in jail or at the very least deal with an expensive criminal prosecution. If the IRS is wrong, then there's effectively no penalty for them. The government wants it both ways. People understandably have some apprehension about this.

jjnoakes 3y ago
> Unfortunately, if myself and the IRS come a disagreement about my filings, I can end up in jail or at the very least deal with an expensive criminal prosecution. I think there's a huge gap between facing an audit in most circumstances and those two outcomes...