7 ms·

2 weeks is the standard? I am amazed. In Switzerland where I live, it is 3 full calendar months. And I thought Switzerland is very similar to the USA... My go

2 weeks is the standard? I am amazed. In Switzerland where I live, it is 3 full calendar months. And I thought Switzerland is very similar to the USA... My god 2 weeks lol, someone quits and he is gone the next day. How is this legal?

Insanity 3y ago
I would think that labour laws most definitely are different in those countries. Although USA does have variability by state
sdfghswe 3y ago
> And I thought Switzerland is very similar to the USA What? I suggest you come and visit.
- adastra22 3y ago
  Switzerland is more similar to the US than the rest of Western Europe in a lot of ways. This is not one of them.
AdrianB1 3y ago
Poland has 3 months for some cases. It is unusual in the rest of the world. In Romania you give 2 weeks notice as an IC and 4 weeks as a manager. It can be shorter if the company agrees, but it cannot be longer by law: you can tell them in advance if you want, they cannot force you to stay if you don't.
hinata08 3y ago
I'm also amazed by the stories of managers who immediately layoff workers who said they will quit. Why ? Is this like some "Oh no you're not deciding to quit, I decided first you're fired, I call dibs !" ? The dude said they will leave anyway. And doing the layoff will just allow him to leave without extensively teaching someone else. This should be illegal as well.
- Loughla 3y ago
  It really depends on the worker, in my experience, and their approach to the situation. I had one person who gave a full year's notice, so that we could hire, train, and integrate the new worker before she left. It was glorious and resulted in zero down time. I have had another who gave one month's notice, and spent the entire time being toxic. Digging out from under that took the better part of three years. The overlap for technical knowledge was just simply not worth the headaches in the team. It's highly subjective, but it really does depend on the person, in absence of a clear "they're out immediately policy". But as a manager, my preference is to select a date roughly one week out from the notice and use that as the exit day. That way the worker can close any relationships they have, positively, but if they go sour there isn't really enough time to screw up the rest of the team. In the context of your statement, we only hear one side of the argument. Remember that there is always a second perspective. I know that I have had folks who I have told to just go the same day they gave notice who tell their friends that I'm an uncaring asshat. The reality is that I fully expected them to be toxic in their remaining time.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    >I had one person who gave a full year's notice I don't understand how anyone could do this with exception of retirement. Who will hire you with one year long advance?
    - nicoburns 3y ago
      > Who will hire you with one year long advance? They probably hired them ahead of time and had both working for a time. It can also take a long time to find someone.
    - Loughla 3y ago
      She was quitting because she was going to be a stay at home mother. We hired the replacement and they worked side by side for ~ 10 months. It was amazing.
    - mym1990 3y ago
gwbas1c 3y ago
In the US, it's generally considered important to the economy that employees have good job mobility. There's plenty of stories of awful employers / managers; so job mobility is generally considered how workers protect themselves. In general, because workers can pretty much leave whenever they want, employers need to make sure there's good financial incentives and good working conditions. Some employers will provide things like retention bonuses, stock plans tied to staying employed for a certain length, or other incentives that employees give up when they quit. As far as a mandatory 3 month notice period: As an American, the few times I've been in a "bad" job, I've just wanted to leave. A 3 month period would just make me miserable. I'd rather have some kind of financial incentive to stay to a certain date.
- lmarcos 3y ago
  If you get fired in Switzerland, your employer gives you a notice period of 3 months as well. Which is nice because it's plenty of time to find another job.
JoeAltmaier 3y ago
In most US states, you can go into the boss' office and say "I quit" and walk out the door.
- tiahura 3y ago
  All states
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - adastra22 3y ago
    Yeah, unless your job is the military. This is a 14th amendment issue.
    - adastra22 3y ago
      *13th amendment.
- hn8305823 3y ago
  Or some variation of that like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_This_Job_and_Shove_It https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_This_Job_and_Shove_It
- coffeebeqn 3y ago
  Or just not show up for a few days if you really want to
bennyp101 3y ago
Same for me in the UK - 3 months seems to be standard for people that have institutional knowledge. I know other positions have shorter times. Edit: although I’m not sure how it would play out if I decided to just do nothing for those 3 months if I were to leave
hn8305823 3y ago
I thought it was well known that employment law and customs differ greatly between US and Europe. For example the difficulty in firing someone in France was a plot device in "Emily in Paris". In most states in the US you can be fired with immediate effect from a non-government job at any time, for any reason, or no reason at all.
Turing_Machine 3y ago
> My god 2 weeks lol, someone quits and he is gone the next day. How is this legal? You're not even required to give two weeks, though that's widely considered to be a courteous thing to do. If it's employment at will (as most jobs are in the United States), you can put down your tools and walk out the door with no notice of any kind. The other side of that coin is that the employer can fire you/lay you off, also with no notice.
- adastra22 3y ago
  You can ALWAYS just put down your tools and walk out the door. “At will” laws have to do with the employer firing you.
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    > You can ALWAYS just put down your tools and walk out the door. Not if you've signed a contract which says otherwise, which of course would make it not "at-will" employment. "At-will" applies to both the employer and the employee. Either can terminate it without notice. "At-will means that an employer can terminate an employee at any time for any reason, except an illegal one, or for no reason without incurring legal liability. Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences." https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/at-will-employment-overview https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/at-will-employment...
myko 3y ago
We also cut staff without notice in the US
ElfinTrousers 3y ago
I once quit a job by saying "I don't want to work here anymore" and then walking out the front door. 2 weeks' notice is just a custom.
mym1990 3y ago
The same way that when someone fires you and you're gone the same day?
- yakubin 3y ago
  The 3 month notice in Europe goes both ways. You can’t be fired on the spot, unless for gross misconduct.
adastra22 3y ago
> My god 2 weeks lol, someone quits and he is gone the next day. How is this legal? How is it legal for this not to be the case? We have constitutional laws against enslavement or indentured servitude here. Nobody can force you to work if you don’t want to. You can quit right now if you want to. What happens if you stop showing up to work in Switzerland? Do you go to prison?
- notch898c 3y ago
  You can be held in contempt for leaving your job in the US. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisconsin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisc...
  - adastra22 3y ago
    Uh, your link seems to be about the judge ruling that the workers can't be prevented from leaving their job.
    - notch898c 3y ago
      If I sent you a link about a person's funeral to show a person had been born, would you not accept that either? The article is about the funeral of the order.
      - adastra22 3y ago
        The workers were not held in contempt though.
        notch898c 3y ago
        What do you think happens if you violate a court order? That's the threat behind violating the order of a judge. That it didn't happen doesn't mean my statement was incorrect. If they had actually left in contempt of the order, I would have said it did happen rather than it can happen.
Leherenn 3y ago
It's only 3 months if you've worked for over 10 years at the same place (or you have a different contractual agreement of course). Otherwise it's a week during the probation period (usually 3 to 6 months), 1 month the first year and 2 months between 2 and 10 years. Also it's symmetrical. Switzerland is "at will" (in the sense that they can lay you off at any time for any reason), but they have to follow the same notice period. In essence this is mandatory minimum severance.

Insanity 3y ago

I would think that labour laws most definitely are different in those countries. Although USA does have variability by state

sdfghswe 3y ago

> And I thought Switzerland is very similar to the USA What? I suggest you come and visit.

adastra22 3y ago
Switzerland is more similar to the US than the rest of Western Europe in a lot of ways. This is not one of them.

AdrianB1 3y ago

Poland has 3 months for some cases. It is unusual in the rest of the world. In Romania you give 2 weeks notice as an IC and 4 weeks as a manager. It can be shorter if the company agrees, but it cannot be longer by law: you can tell them in advance if you want, they cannot force you to stay if you don't.

hinata08 3y ago

I'm also amazed by the stories of managers who immediately layoff workers who said they will quit. Why ? Is this like some "Oh no you're not deciding to quit, I decided first you're fired, I call dibs !" ? The dude said they will leave anyway. And doing the layoff will just allow him to leave without extensively teaching someone else. This should be illegal as well.

Loughla 3y ago
It really depends on the worker, in my experience, and their approach to the situation. I had one person who gave a full year's notice, so that we could hire, train, and integrate the new worker before she left. It was glorious and resulted in zero down time. I have had another who gave one month's notice, and spent the entire time being toxic. Digging out from under that took the better part of three years. The overlap for technical knowledge was just simply not worth the headaches in the team. It's highly subjective, but it really does depend on the person, in absence of a clear "they're out immediately policy". But as a manager, my preference is to select a date roughly one week out from the notice and use that as the exit day. That way the worker can close any relationships they have, positively, but if they go sour there isn't really enough time to screw up the rest of the team. In the context of your statement, we only hear one side of the argument. Remember that there is always a second perspective. I know that I have had folks who I have told to just go the same day they gave notice who tell their friends that I'm an uncaring asshat. The reality is that I fully expected them to be toxic in their remaining time.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  >I had one person who gave a full year's notice I don't understand how anyone could do this with exception of retirement. Who will hire you with one year long advance?
  - nicoburns 3y ago
    > Who will hire you with one year long advance? They probably hired them ahead of time and had both working for a time. It can also take a long time to find someone.
  - Loughla 3y ago
    She was quitting because she was going to be a stay at home mother. We hired the replacement and they worked side by side for ~ 10 months. It was amazing.
  - mym1990 3y ago

gwbas1c 3y ago

In the US, it's generally considered important to the economy that employees have good job mobility. There's plenty of stories of awful employers / managers; so job mobility is generally considered how workers protect themselves. In general, because workers can pretty much leave whenever they want, employers need to make sure there's good financial incentives and good working conditions. Some employers will provide things like retention bonuses, stock plans tied to staying employed for a certain length, or other incentives that employees give up when they quit. As far as a mandatory 3 month notice period: As an American, the few times I've been in a "bad" job, I've just wanted to leave. A 3 month period would just make me miserable. I'd rather have some kind of financial incentive to stay to a certain date.

lmarcos 3y ago
If you get fired in Switzerland, your employer gives you a notice period of 3 months as well. Which is nice because it's plenty of time to find another job.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

In most US states, you can go into the boss' office and say "I quit" and walk out the door.

tiahura 3y ago
All states
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- adastra22 3y ago
  Yeah, unless your job is the military. This is a 14th amendment issue.
  - adastra22 3y ago
    *13th amendment.
hn8305823 3y ago
Or some variation of that like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_This_Job_and_Shove_It https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_This_Job_and_Shove_It
coffeebeqn 3y ago
Or just not show up for a few days if you really want to

bennyp101 3y ago

Same for me in the UK - 3 months seems to be standard for people that have institutional knowledge. I know other positions have shorter times. Edit: although I’m not sure how it would play out if I decided to just do nothing for those 3 months if I were to leave

hn8305823 3y ago

I thought it was well known that employment law and customs differ greatly between US and Europe. For example the difficulty in firing someone in France was a plot device in "Emily in Paris". In most states in the US you can be fired with immediate effect from a non-government job at any time, for any reason, or no reason at all.

Turing_Machine 3y ago

> My god 2 weeks lol, someone quits and he is gone the next day. How is this legal? You're not even required to give two weeks, though that's widely considered to be a courteous thing to do. If it's employment at will (as most jobs are in the United States), you can put down your tools and walk out the door with no notice of any kind. The other side of that coin is that the employer can fire you/lay you off, also with no notice.

adastra22 3y ago
You can ALWAYS just put down your tools and walk out the door. “At will” laws have to do with the employer firing you.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  > You can ALWAYS just put down your tools and walk out the door. Not if you've signed a contract which says otherwise, which of course would make it not "at-will" employment. "At-will" applies to both the employer and the employee. Either can terminate it without notice. "At-will means that an employer can terminate an employee at any time for any reason, except an illegal one, or for no reason without incurring legal liability. Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences." https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/at-will-employment-overview https://www.ncsl.org/labor-and-employment/at-will-employment...

myko 3y ago

We also cut staff without notice in the US

ElfinTrousers 3y ago

I once quit a job by saying "I don't want to work here anymore" and then walking out the front door. 2 weeks' notice is just a custom.

mym1990 3y ago

The same way that when someone fires you and you're gone the same day?

yakubin 3y ago
The 3 month notice in Europe goes both ways. You can’t be fired on the spot, unless for gross misconduct.

adastra22 3y ago

> My god 2 weeks lol, someone quits and he is gone the next day. How is this legal? How is it legal for this not to be the case? We have constitutional laws against enslavement or indentured servitude here. Nobody can force you to work if you don’t want to. You can quit right now if you want to. What happens if you stop showing up to work in Switzerland? Do you go to prison?

notch898c 3y ago
You can be held in contempt for leaving your job in the US. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisconsin.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisc...
- adastra22 3y ago
  Uh, your link seems to be about the judge ruling that the workers can't be prevented from leaving their job.
  - notch898c 3y ago
    If I sent you a link about a person's funeral to show a person had been born, would you not accept that either? The article is about the funeral of the order.
    - adastra22 3y ago
      The workers were not held in contempt though.
      - notch898c 3y ago
        What do you think happens if you violate a court order? That's the threat behind violating the order of a judge. That it didn't happen doesn't mean my statement was incorrect. If they had actually left in contempt of the order, I would have said it did happen rather than it can happen.

Leherenn 3y ago

It's only 3 months if you've worked for over 10 years at the same place (or you have a different contractual agreement of course). Otherwise it's a week during the probation period (usually 3 to 6 months), 1 month the first year and 2 months between 2 and 10 years. Also it's symmetrical. Switzerland is "at will" (in the sense that they can lay you off at any time for any reason), but they have to follow the same notice period. In essence this is mandatory minimum severance.