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Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.
by KindAndFriendly 3y ago
Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.
- nailer 3y agoI am amazed at that too. If you need to pay attention and intervene, it’s clearly not ‘full self driving’.
- haliskerbas 3y ago$TSLA made enough people rich I suppose. I saw some gains myself although not on a large scale. Still don’t like the guy but there’s the old adage “for my friends everything, for my enemies the law”. If $TSLA plummets a crazy amount the tables may turn
- luckylion 3y ago[flagged]
- ladberg 3y agoI'm gonna need a source for that... I don't know of any collaboration between the two companies or overlap between their cars in general.
- mortehu 3y agoI think this is a Theranos reference that went over everyone's heads. Theranos were using Siemens machines while pretending to use their own technology. Obviously Tesla is not doing anything like this, and GP's point is that they are not similar.
- hef19898 3y agoTesla out VWed VW in the marketing game. Other than that, they have nothing in common...
- NikolaNovak 3y agoThat is new to me. What VW platform do you claim Tesla is based on? Anything to back it up? (I agree personally that value of Tesla is marketing and sentiment as opposed to fundamentals. It's the vw angle I've never see before)
- trollied 3y agoGiven Tesla were the first to use a "Giga Press" [1] to mould the chassis, I very much doubt your claim. They innovated significantly. Most car manufacturers use Bosch components all over the place, if that's what you're getting at. [1] https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/giga-presses-help-toyota-volvo-hyundai-cut-production-costs https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/giga-presses-help-toyo...
- morelisp 3y agoThere are at least four replies at this moment missing the point entirely, it's incredible how knee-jerk these are to defend Tesla against a defense of Tesla.
- mynameisvlad 3y agoIf the point is so opaque that four separate comments miss it, then maybe it was not well described in the first place. It’s less a knee-jerk defense of Tesla and more of a knee-jerk “what are you talking about that’s absurd” because at face value it’s an exceptionally absurd claim.
- morelisp 3y agoIt's a joke about Theranos, the biggest corporate fraud story of the decade and the parallel topic of the thread!
- mynameisvlad 3y agoI mean, that doesn’t change how it’s a confusing and seemingly absurd claim at face value. It doesn’t read like a joke, it doesn’t in any way imply the link, it just sounds like an absurd statement put out to incite responses. And people clearly all read it this way. If one person read it wrong then sure, you might have a point. If every single person replying read it this way, then it just shows the point was not clearly articulated to begin with. Even if you had just watched the documentaries about Theranos, I doubt you could have immediately pieced that connection on first read.
- estebank 3y ago> Still don’t like the guy but there’s the old adage Interestingly, Juan Domingo Peron's version of that adage was "For our friends, everything. For our enemies, not even justice." I'm not sure which one is worse, but they are certainly both evocative. > If $TSLA plummets a crazy amount the tables may turn It depends. What happened here is that Holmes screwed over peers, and not just consumers. I don't think anything will happen to $TSLA's CEO unless except through malice aimed at his peers that affects their wealth.
- nickcox 3y ago> I don't think anything will happen to $TSLA's CEO unless except through malice aimed at his peers that affects their wealth. He needs to watch out for the Saudis, for sure.
- asynchronous 3y ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla Capability, not feature. I know that isn’t how it’s marketed. But Elon isn’t claiming he has Level 5 right now. Most FSD buyers seem aware they’re paying into a research effort. Fraud requires knowledge and intent. You’re making a good case for a class action lawsuit, i.e. civil action. Not for putting someone in jail.
- stametseater 3y ago"The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons."
- ljw1001 3y agoIt’s a “full” capability they’re incapable of delivering. It’s really hard to see how your distinction has any meaning.
- InitialLastName 3y agoCapability implies that the car can do the thing (software included). Until the car can do it, it's all "hypothetical capability". Selling a "capability" that won't get delivered within the expected lifetime of the car is just marketing garbage.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> Capability implies that the car can do the thing (software included) It’s made clear that isn’t the definition of capability they’re using [1]. I am not a fan of the Autopilot branding. But I struggle to see how someone buys FSD capability, realises their mistake on delivery and is then unable to get restitution through either a return or a resale. [1] "the facility or potential for an indicated use or deployment," emphasis on "potential" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capability https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capability
- ahahahahah 3y agoSure. In the same way that I have Olympic "capability".
- LanceJones 3y agoI'm an FSD Beta user. If you stop reading at "Full Self Driving Capability", then yes, it's an issue for a potential purchaser. But if you read just a little bit more, it becomes more clear what you're buying. I don't feel "fooled" and neither do 1000s of other Beta testers with whom I regularly communicate on Discord.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoIt is not about not being fooled, it is about maintaining standards so that people in society can spend less time ensuring they do not get fooled.
- LanceJones 3y agoValid point.
- lesuorac 3y agoOh good point, I should be more careful of what I read. It's "Full Self Driving" not "Full Self Driving without Accidents".
- ejb999 3y agoyou mean like people?
- ok_dad 3y ago> I'm an FSD Beta user... 1000s of other Beta testers Ah, so the hundreds of thousands or millions who bought FSD years ago should be happy that a few thousand of you get to test out a system with your own lives. Great. Edit: Don't bother responding if you're a Tesla or Elon fanboy/fangirl. I'm not interested in being insulted any longer by you folks.
- LanceJones 3y agoThere are 400,000+ Beta users currently (US and Canada). You are being fooled by the headlines. The people in the EU have a legitimate beef (not being able to use the functionality). "test a system with our own lives" is silly hyperbole and you know it.
- paxys 3y agoThe difference is that TSLA investors are happy.
- gigatexal 3y agoBoth statements are hella cynical and 10000% true.
- donatj 3y agoI imagine there is something in the paperwork you sign when you pay for it that basically says roughly "this may never actually materialize" and that's the key difference.
- cjensen 3y agoSelf-delusion is not fraud. It's only a crime when you are not deluded and knowingly lie.
- pclmulqdq 3y agoBuilding your company so that you can keep up your own delusions (and repeat them to customers) in spite of evidence sounds like it might be fraud.
- falseeq 3y agoThis is a dumb comment. Leading with stretched claims that are then clarified in the fine print is different than outright lying. No one who did a modicum of due diligence bought a Tesla thinking they were getting a completely self-driving car that requires no human input. There’s a reason why we have specific false and deceptive advertising laws. Most of it doesn’t rise to the level of fraud. Fraud requires a lie and reasonable/justifiable detrimental reliance on that lie.
- mbfg 3y agothe only crime here (or anywhere) is screwing with rich people's money.
- nullc 3y agoI wonder if dealers are still telling people that the future robotaxi service means that the car will entirely pay for itself?
- rurp 3y agoMan, that's a blast from the past. Elon was claiming that was about to happen seven years ago.
- asveikau 3y agoIt's also baffling that she faces consequences for financial fraud and not the impact on patient health of knowingly giving faulty test results.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y agoYeah, I hate saying stuff like "it only matters when it hits the pockets of the rich" because it's reductive and cynical, but seriously - how are the patients not better protected here? How is that not the bigger story?
- revelio 3y agoIt's because she didn't directly lie to any patients, she was insulated from all of that. They got her on lying to investors because those are the kind of people she was actually talking to.
- pas 3y agothat was what could be proved in court personally (that she had intent) when it comes to the patient health there was not this clear paper trail
- asveikau 3y agoI don't know this area, but I suspect the regulatory framework around this needs revision so that government could discover that kind of malice, i.e. if there were some requirement of regular reporting that would have created the paper trail.
- 00F_ 3y agowrong. watch the latest FSD videos. FSD has proved all the detractors wrong. it drives unbelievably well. and the rate of improvement is astounding. this comment might have been valid a few years ago but not anymore.
- memish 3y agoIt demonstrably has FSD capability. Marques Brownlee has a video from last year where it drove him to his studio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nF0K2nJ7N8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nF0K2nJ7N8
- gvedem 3y ago>Marques Brownlee has a video from last year where it drove him to his studio. I don't know where to start with this if you think that one, year-old video is somehow proof that Tesla FSD is ready for use--and, say, the recall earlier this year isn't indication that maybe it's not.