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Yep same here. Estonia is a dream compared to Bay Area even with the cold winters and old Soviet buildings (which means lots of cheap rent btw). San Francisco h

Yep same here. Estonia is a dream compared to Bay Area even with the cold winters and old Soviet buildings (which means lots of cheap rent btw). San Francisco has a powerful marketing and promotion engine - and yes it really is a gorgeous city in the late summer - but the weather otherwise is pretty miserable - almost as cold and rainy as Seattle I'm sure - given the option - any US west coast tech startup would much prefer to operate in some quaint old town in Eastern Europe with the cafes etc. and no need to hassle with a car. Unfortunately the venture community infrastructure / legal etc. is stuck on west coast - and AI is only reinforcing that

comboy 3y ago
Why Estonia of all the places? I'm assuming you guys were in the situation to choose whenever you wanted to move. Western Europe, Signapore, Australia, Switzerland? Why Estonia?
- triggerwarn 3y ago
  [flagged]
- logicchains 3y ago
  Most of those places you mention are relatively hostile to (foreign) startups, Estonia in comparison tries to encourage foreigners to open companies there.
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    How open is it to foreign workers on, say, 12-month contracts? Not that it's something I'm looking for right now but knowing it might be a possibility in a few year's time would be encouraging.
    - atdrummond 3y ago
      Very easy to get a short term employment residency for 12 months. You can always convert to the more traditional D Visa if you decide you’d like to stay.
    - EiZei 3y ago
      EU citizens are treated pretty much the same as Estonians and they do have the lowest visa rejection rate in the Schengen area.
    - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
      They have a specific digital nomad visa in addition to other visa types. I came on an ordinary visa some years ago (American citizen working in tech) and found it quite easy to get visa and bank stuff sorted, that said I was employed by their government. https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/
- _njyk 3y ago
  Low taxes, efficient administration, easy visa, high personal safety (except in case of war), a good marketing as well, and almost all services are now natively in English (living in Estonia for 10+ years, and it wasn't the case before).
  - joenot443 3y ago
    Is there much of an English community there? How far could one get without knowing Estonian?
    - _njyk 3y ago
      Very far, you don't need to speak Estonian unless you plan to work as a local job position that requires doing customer support (such as shop-keeper). In such case (or policeman, lawyers, doctors, etc), it's mandatory to learn the language, and there is a special police that checks if you can speak and write in Estonian (Keele Inspektsioon). This is done for a good reason, it's to make sure that everybody can get a good service and to protect Estonian heritage and culture (otherwise imagine older people, if their doctor can't speak with them). You can fully live and work without speaking a single word in Estonian. It's totally normal here to speak English. Even at the cinema, movies are in English, subtitled in Estonian and Russian. When you go to shop, many products actually have labels in English (or in German). Estonian is a difficult language, Estonians know about it. A bit generalising, but to get the idea: Estonians don't want to speak Russian, Russians can't speak Estonian well. So you have this society fragmented in half. So overall, everybody settles for the easiest language that doesn't upset anyone: English (and German as a fallback). It's easy to find schools in English too. Even the tax board speaks to you in English, all the website for public services ( https://www.eesti.ee/ https://www.eesti.ee/ ) is all in English, even all the laws are officially translated in English ( https://www.riigiteataja.ee/ https://www.riigiteataja.ee/ ) To IT foreigners, the country is very welcoming and very very easy-to-settle in my opinion. To other foreigners, it's not true, because it's considered stealing jobs, bringing criminality, etc (basically same stuff that you have to prove when applying for an H1-B in the US) To get a flat, real estate agents all speak English. They won't get offended if you speak only English, it's normal for them. Telecom companies speak English. All apps (taxi, food delivery) are in English, because most startups and apps are not made for the local market as its too tiny. From a political perspective, the country is now pushing more and more English; they'd prefer that you learn English than Russian. So some shops are even removing Russian, and some administration now addresses you in 3 languages: [Estonian, then in English, and then Russian] (whereas before it was [Estonian, then Russian, and then English]). The country is very well managed and organised, main issue with the country is: - Darkness (coldness is fine, but half of the year you essentially live in the dark, almost like if it is always night). Summer is awesome though because you get day and sun almost all the time. - A really unstable neighbour country on the East (it's not totally impossible that a war could break-out, though unlikely at the moment). - Taxes may raise in order to fund the current war in Ukraine and balance the government budget. but otherwise it's a really good place to live and raise a family.
- AlchemistCamp 3y ago
  Estonia is on a short list of places I'd consider moving to to found a company if the US weren't an option. My top three would probably be Singapore, Israel and Estonia. Of the three, Estonia is the most budget-friendly.
realworldperson 3y ago
[dead]
danielrpa 3y ago
I'm sure Eastern Europe is great, but if you want to remain in the US there are many other great places to live in the Midwest and American South. You do need a car, which is fine or even desirable for many people (like me).
- graderjs 3y ago
  I agree. There's dozens of fantastic little cities in the USA, so many to explore. SF sucks, to be sure. Which is sad, because it didn't used to~~and has potential :( ! LA is great (unless you like to complain about traffic). But there's so so many options, and with remote work you should be fine. If your company has to be based in Silicon Valley tho for the Imperial Credits, then--whaddayagonnado? I guess.
  - ozarker 3y ago
    What cities are you guys talking about? My family and I are looking to move somewhere else in the next year or so
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      New Orleans?
    - graderjs 3y ago
      I could only give places that pique my interest and seem good to me. But I don't know what you need specifically. I recommend you get on wikipedia and search a bunch of little places across multiple states, and also search google for things like, "Best towns to live in USA", or "greenest cities to live in USA", or "most outdoorsy cities to live in USA" to start getting lists and knowing more. That's how I started learning about it. I also really enjoyed learning about all the little places, and it's a bonafide research rabbit hole if that's your sort of thing: weather, taxes, sports, politics, culture, economy, transport, food, history, lifestyle, geography. There's such variety and distinctness! I mean, you can cut the pie anyway you like and I bet there's somewhere in the US to suit you.
    - 3y ago

comboy 3y ago

Why Estonia of all the places? I'm assuming you guys were in the situation to choose whenever you wanted to move. Western Europe, Signapore, Australia, Switzerland? Why Estonia?

triggerwarn 3y ago
[flagged]
logicchains 3y ago
Most of those places you mention are relatively hostile to (foreign) startups, Estonia in comparison tries to encourage foreigners to open companies there.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  How open is it to foreign workers on, say, 12-month contracts? Not that it's something I'm looking for right now but knowing it might be a possibility in a few year's time would be encouraging.
  - atdrummond 3y ago
    Very easy to get a short term employment residency for 12 months. You can always convert to the more traditional D Visa if you decide you’d like to stay.
  - EiZei 3y ago
    EU citizens are treated pretty much the same as Estonians and they do have the lowest visa rejection rate in the Schengen area.
  - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
    They have a specific digital nomad visa in addition to other visa types. I came on an ordinary visa some years ago (American citizen working in tech) and found it quite easy to get visa and bank stuff sorted, that said I was employed by their government. https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/
_njyk 3y ago
Low taxes, efficient administration, easy visa, high personal safety (except in case of war), a good marketing as well, and almost all services are now natively in English (living in Estonia for 10+ years, and it wasn't the case before).
- joenot443 3y ago
  Is there much of an English community there? How far could one get without knowing Estonian?
  - _njyk 3y ago
    Very far, you don't need to speak Estonian unless you plan to work as a local job position that requires doing customer support (such as shop-keeper). In such case (or policeman, lawyers, doctors, etc), it's mandatory to learn the language, and there is a special police that checks if you can speak and write in Estonian (Keele Inspektsioon). This is done for a good reason, it's to make sure that everybody can get a good service and to protect Estonian heritage and culture (otherwise imagine older people, if their doctor can't speak with them). You can fully live and work without speaking a single word in Estonian. It's totally normal here to speak English. Even at the cinema, movies are in English, subtitled in Estonian and Russian. When you go to shop, many products actually have labels in English (or in German). Estonian is a difficult language, Estonians know about it. A bit generalising, but to get the idea: Estonians don't want to speak Russian, Russians can't speak Estonian well. So you have this society fragmented in half. So overall, everybody settles for the easiest language that doesn't upset anyone: English (and German as a fallback). It's easy to find schools in English too. Even the tax board speaks to you in English, all the website for public services ( https://www.eesti.ee/ https://www.eesti.ee/ ) is all in English, even all the laws are officially translated in English ( https://www.riigiteataja.ee/ https://www.riigiteataja.ee/ ) To IT foreigners, the country is very welcoming and very very easy-to-settle in my opinion. To other foreigners, it's not true, because it's considered stealing jobs, bringing criminality, etc (basically same stuff that you have to prove when applying for an H1-B in the US) To get a flat, real estate agents all speak English. They won't get offended if you speak only English, it's normal for them. Telecom companies speak English. All apps (taxi, food delivery) are in English, because most startups and apps are not made for the local market as its too tiny. From a political perspective, the country is now pushing more and more English; they'd prefer that you learn English than Russian. So some shops are even removing Russian, and some administration now addresses you in 3 languages: [Estonian, then in English, and then Russian] (whereas before it was [Estonian, then Russian, and then English]). The country is very well managed and organised, main issue with the country is: - Darkness (coldness is fine, but half of the year you essentially live in the dark, almost like if it is always night). Summer is awesome though because you get day and sun almost all the time. - A really unstable neighbour country on the East (it's not totally impossible that a war could break-out, though unlikely at the moment). - Taxes may raise in order to fund the current war in Ukraine and balance the government budget. but otherwise it's a really good place to live and raise a family.
AlchemistCamp 3y ago
Estonia is on a short list of places I'd consider moving to to found a company if the US weren't an option. My top three would probably be Singapore, Israel and Estonia. Of the three, Estonia is the most budget-friendly.

realworldperson 3y ago

[dead]

danielrpa 3y ago

I'm sure Eastern Europe is great, but if you want to remain in the US there are many other great places to live in the Midwest and American South. You do need a car, which is fine or even desirable for many people (like me).

graderjs 3y ago
I agree. There's dozens of fantastic little cities in the USA, so many to explore. SF sucks, to be sure. Which is sad, because it didn't used to~~and has potential :( ! LA is great (unless you like to complain about traffic). But there's so so many options, and with remote work you should be fine. If your company has to be based in Silicon Valley tho for the Imperial Credits, then--whaddayagonnado? I guess.
- ozarker 3y ago
  What cities are you guys talking about? My family and I are looking to move somewhere else in the next year or so
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    New Orleans?
  - graderjs 3y ago
    I could only give places that pique my interest and seem good to me. But I don't know what you need specifically. I recommend you get on wikipedia and search a bunch of little places across multiple states, and also search google for things like, "Best towns to live in USA", or "greenest cities to live in USA", or "most outdoorsy cities to live in USA" to start getting lists and knowing more. That's how I started learning about it. I also really enjoyed learning about all the little places, and it's a bonafide research rabbit hole if that's your sort of thing: weather, taxes, sports, politics, culture, economy, transport, food, history, lifestyle, geography. There's such variety and distinctness! I mean, you can cut the pie anyway you like and I bet there's somewhere in the US to suit you.
  - 3y ago