5 ms·

Texting and driving ought to be treated similarly to a felony DUI.

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
Texting and driving used to be a lot safer. It was easy to write texts without looking at my Razr. Probably every other T9 phone too.
notch898a 4y ago
[flagged]
mc32 4y ago
Can’t mobOSes disable all functionality on movement above X/mph —perhaps allow it only if another device is in proximity (such as passenger presence, in public transit, etc), except for hands-free voice calls?
- q845712 4y ago
  imo there's already a bunch of inconsistent nanny-state stuff when trying to use a smartphone as a passenger/navigator. There's things I'm not allowed to do without unplugging the phone briefly, and there's also things I'm allowed to do that absolutely require looking down at a zero-haptic-feedback touchscreen. It seems like there's always corner cases that aren't considered (in your proposal above, what if the navigator doesn't have a phone because they're a child, or because their phone ran out of batteries? What happens when the sensors/algorithms are wrong about how fast we're going? What happens when the sensors are wrong about whether or not there's another device? What if that second device keeps disappearing and re-apparing while somebody tries to do a multiple step operation?) ... Trying to build some water-tight mechanism to keep us out of trouble but also with access to full functionality "when we can use it responsibly" is an endless rabbit hole. IMO it feels like a systemic problem asking for a systemic solution. Whether we think that solution is self-driving cars, rail travel, walkable cities, or taxis probably says as much about our politics as anything else though.
  - mc32 4y ago
    I think the failsafe is to not allow anything beside voice calls if it detects movement. Phones while on motion are a convenience, not a need. Before the 90s very few people had mobile phones and they got places fine.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      You think all train and bus passengers should have their phones locked because of moronic drivers? Better option is to roll out the phone detection cameras and hand out 10 year license suspensions.
    - Noumenon72 4y ago
      That is absolutely false. I didn't even own a car in the 2000s because going anywhere meant a bunch of printed maps, bad GPS, and getting lost. Google Maps liberated me to a whole world of restaurants, side trips, urgent plan changes, and last-minute tourism. Plus podcasts, voice memos, and time sensitive texts. It kills me that safetyism is throwing out all those babies with the bathwater.
      - perilunar 4y ago
        > printed maps, bad GPS, and getting lost That’s on you. Like almost everyone over the age of 50, I learnt to drive before mobile phones and GPS, and it was fine. Paper maps and street directories worked well enough. Getting lost was uncommon, and no big deal.
  - triceratops 4y ago
    > inconsistent nanny-state stuff Your phone isn't the state.
    - q845712 4y ago
      lol fair enough.
scoofy 4y ago
So, with kid gloves? Look state by state at DUI laws. Many if not most won’t end leave you with a suspended license, much less jailed.
nerdchum 4y ago
There's no breathalyzer for smartphones though. They need some way to prove it.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  https://bgr.com/lifestyle/phone-detecting-cameras-trial/ https://bgr.com/lifestyle/phone-detecting-cameras-trial/
  - bobmaxup 4y ago
    Seems like it passed the trial: https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobilephones/technology.html#:~:text=Since%20commencing%20enforcement%20on%201%20March%202020%2C%20the%20MPDC%20program%20has,offences%20(during%20the%20period%201%20March%202020%20to%2031%20December%202022) https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobileph....
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    These are being rolled out across Australia. I believe they use computer vision to filter down the data and then pass it on to a human for manual verification. The proof is then a photo of you with a phone in hand.
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      I don't believe for a second that after the initial rollout the system won't be tuned for an "acceptable" false positive rate. Once a penal colony always a penal colony... (Not to say that a large majority of Western European and large minority of US jurisdictions won't try to do the same damn thing.)
    - nerdchum 4y ago
      Maybe in Australia where they had Covid camps, something like that could fly but I don't see that flying in America. they can't make it illegal to check GPS or look at a map or change the radio station and they can't prove you were doing anything more than that.
vba616 4y ago
What does texting and driving actually mean? I simply can't read messages and type with my fingers if I wanted to, while moving. Do people really do that without immediately crashing? Or is using Google Maps with Android Auto and tapping to view incoming texts what should be a felony? If looking away from the road is the problem, then we should prohibit any controls in the center console for climate control or radios, and...passengers?
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  There are plenty of people that absolutely do exactly that. When I was younger and dumber I used to do literally that. Get a text message, read it, and respond to it, while driving. With a stick shift, too. I can't believe I never hurt anyone doing this. In BC, Canada, where I now live, this is prosecuted rather aggressively as 'distracted driving'. First ticket is in the neighborhood of $400 + required increase in premiums, and the threshold is touching your phone or having it within reach and not in a cradle. A second offense within a year can lead to a suspended license. It certainly shows. When I go down to the states, it is noticeable how many people I can see interacting with their phones compared to BC.
  - Noumenon72 4y ago
    I can easily believe you never hurt anyone doing this, as conditions that lead to an accident are rare and often predictable. For example, you probably never answered a text while going through a roundabout, but restricted it to straight sections of road with a clear view ahead and no nearby cars. This increased you risk, but from an extremely small base.
- climb_stealth 4y ago
  There are people driving on the road that are periodically looking down at their phone to text. For x seconds at a time. It boggles my mind whenever I see it. Kind of makes me want to chuck something at them. I'm sure everyone has been in a situation where they are not paying attention. But I think the danger with texting is that it happens more often. It is unlikely to be just one message. Which makes it more likely to result in an accident.
Clubber 4y ago
>Texting and driving ought to be treated similarly to a felony DUI. And that's how we have a police state. Honestly, emotions and laws really don't mix, that's how we have more people incarcerated both per capita and in total numbers than any other country in the world. "Super-predators," gets votes, but the repercussions were pretty horrible. Something much less horrible would be to make gasoline super expensive like in Europe, or lower the speed limit to a speed that is much less likely to cause fatalities, or do an old fashioned marketing / awareness push. The More You Know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_More_You_Know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_More_You_Know Also, the article seems to be speculating on the cause: >How many of those deaths involved distracted driving? >“It’s much bigger than the data show,” said Bruce Landsberg, vice chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board. Data collection methods are so riddled with problems, he said, that reliable estimates are difficult if not impossible. So it's bigger than the data shows, but reliable estimates are difficult or impossible, so it seems he's talking out his ass. Maybe it's because many more people were working at home in 2021-2022.
- lisasays 4y ago
  And that's how we have a police state. No, that's how we have a slippery-slope argument. Studies have shown that texting while driving is about a high a risk factor as drinking alcohol. If not classed as a felony (and intrinsically more difficult to control) - the state should at least do something to seriously discourage people from doing it.
  - Clubber 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - lisasays 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - Clubber 4y ago
        I think making texting and driving a felony is an absurd emotional overreaction and would cause more harm than good. I think we have many laws on the books that are absurd emotional overreactions that put a lot of non-criminals in the system, and frankly, it disgusts me. I think people who are proponents of that either aren't very thoughtful, or are just outright cruel, or perhaps both. Does that clear it up for you Lisa?

Texting and driving used to be a lot safer. It was easy to write texts without looking at my Razr. Probably every other T9 phone too.

notch898a 4y ago

[flagged]

mc32 4y ago

Can’t mobOSes disable all functionality on movement above X/mph —perhaps allow it only if another device is in proximity (such as passenger presence, in public transit, etc), except for hands-free voice calls?

q845712 4y ago
imo there's already a bunch of inconsistent nanny-state stuff when trying to use a smartphone as a passenger/navigator. There's things I'm not allowed to do without unplugging the phone briefly, and there's also things I'm allowed to do that absolutely require looking down at a zero-haptic-feedback touchscreen. It seems like there's always corner cases that aren't considered (in your proposal above, what if the navigator doesn't have a phone because they're a child, or because their phone ran out of batteries? What happens when the sensors/algorithms are wrong about how fast we're going? What happens when the sensors are wrong about whether or not there's another device? What if that second device keeps disappearing and re-apparing while somebody tries to do a multiple step operation?) ... Trying to build some water-tight mechanism to keep us out of trouble but also with access to full functionality "when we can use it responsibly" is an endless rabbit hole. IMO it feels like a systemic problem asking for a systemic solution. Whether we think that solution is self-driving cars, rail travel, walkable cities, or taxis probably says as much about our politics as anything else though.
- mc32 4y ago
  I think the failsafe is to not allow anything beside voice calls if it detects movement. Phones while on motion are a convenience, not a need. Before the 90s very few people had mobile phones and they got places fine.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    You think all train and bus passengers should have their phones locked because of moronic drivers? Better option is to roll out the phone detection cameras and hand out 10 year license suspensions.
  - Noumenon72 4y ago
    That is absolutely false. I didn't even own a car in the 2000s because going anywhere meant a bunch of printed maps, bad GPS, and getting lost. Google Maps liberated me to a whole world of restaurants, side trips, urgent plan changes, and last-minute tourism. Plus podcasts, voice memos, and time sensitive texts. It kills me that safetyism is throwing out all those babies with the bathwater.
    - perilunar 4y ago
      > printed maps, bad GPS, and getting lost That’s on you. Like almost everyone over the age of 50, I learnt to drive before mobile phones and GPS, and it was fine. Paper maps and street directories worked well enough. Getting lost was uncommon, and no big deal.
- triceratops 4y ago
  > inconsistent nanny-state stuff Your phone isn't the state.
  - q845712 4y ago
    lol fair enough.

scoofy 4y ago

So, with kid gloves? Look state by state at DUI laws. Many if not most won’t end leave you with a suspended license, much less jailed.

nerdchum 4y ago

There's no breathalyzer for smartphones though. They need some way to prove it.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
https://bgr.com/lifestyle/phone-detecting-cameras-trial/ https://bgr.com/lifestyle/phone-detecting-cameras-trial/
- bobmaxup 4y ago
  Seems like it passed the trial: https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobilephones/technology.html#:~:text=Since%20commencing%20enforcement%20on%201%20March%202020%2C%20the%20MPDC%20program%20has,offences%20(during%20the%20period%201%20March%202020%20to%2031%20December%202022) https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobileph....
- Gigachad 4y ago
  These are being rolled out across Australia. I believe they use computer vision to filter down the data and then pass it on to a human for manual verification. The proof is then a photo of you with a phone in hand.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    I don't believe for a second that after the initial rollout the system won't be tuned for an "acceptable" false positive rate. Once a penal colony always a penal colony... (Not to say that a large majority of Western European and large minority of US jurisdictions won't try to do the same damn thing.)
  - nerdchum 4y ago
    Maybe in Australia where they had Covid camps, something like that could fly but I don't see that flying in America. they can't make it illegal to check GPS or look at a map or change the radio station and they can't prove you were doing anything more than that.

vba616 4y ago

What does texting and driving actually mean? I simply can't read messages and type with my fingers if I wanted to, while moving. Do people really do that without immediately crashing? Or is using Google Maps with Android Auto and tapping to view incoming texts what should be a felony? If looking away from the road is the problem, then we should prohibit any controls in the center console for climate control or radios, and...passengers?

dghlsakjg 4y ago
There are plenty of people that absolutely do exactly that. When I was younger and dumber I used to do literally that. Get a text message, read it, and respond to it, while driving. With a stick shift, too. I can't believe I never hurt anyone doing this. In BC, Canada, where I now live, this is prosecuted rather aggressively as 'distracted driving'. First ticket is in the neighborhood of $400 + required increase in premiums, and the threshold is touching your phone or having it within reach and not in a cradle. A second offense within a year can lead to a suspended license. It certainly shows. When I go down to the states, it is noticeable how many people I can see interacting with their phones compared to BC.
- Noumenon72 4y ago
  I can easily believe you never hurt anyone doing this, as conditions that lead to an accident are rare and often predictable. For example, you probably never answered a text while going through a roundabout, but restricted it to straight sections of road with a clear view ahead and no nearby cars. This increased you risk, but from an extremely small base.
climb_stealth 4y ago
There are people driving on the road that are periodically looking down at their phone to text. For x seconds at a time. It boggles my mind whenever I see it. Kind of makes me want to chuck something at them. I'm sure everyone has been in a situation where they are not paying attention. But I think the danger with texting is that it happens more often. It is unlikely to be just one message. Which makes it more likely to result in an accident.

Clubber 4y ago

>Texting and driving ought to be treated similarly to a felony DUI. And that's how we have a police state. Honestly, emotions and laws really don't mix, that's how we have more people incarcerated both per capita and in total numbers than any other country in the world. "Super-predators," gets votes, but the repercussions were pretty horrible. Something much less horrible would be to make gasoline super expensive like in Europe, or lower the speed limit to a speed that is much less likely to cause fatalities, or do an old fashioned marketing / awareness push. The More You Know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_More_You_Know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_More_You_Know Also, the article seems to be speculating on the cause: >How many of those deaths involved distracted driving? >“It’s much bigger than the data show,” said Bruce Landsberg, vice chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board. Data collection methods are so riddled with problems, he said, that reliable estimates are difficult if not impossible. So it's bigger than the data shows, but reliable estimates are difficult or impossible, so it seems he's talking out his ass. Maybe it's because many more people were working at home in 2021-2022.

lisasays 4y ago
And that's how we have a police state. No, that's how we have a slippery-slope argument. Studies have shown that texting while driving is about a high a risk factor as drinking alcohol. If not classed as a felony (and intrinsically more difficult to control) - the state should at least do something to seriously discourage people from doing it.
- Clubber 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - lisasays 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Clubber 4y ago
      I think making texting and driving a felony is an absurd emotional overreaction and would cause more harm than good. I think we have many laws on the books that are absurd emotional overreactions that put a lot of non-criminals in the system, and frankly, it disgusts me. I think people who are proponents of that either aren't very thoughtful, or are just outright cruel, or perhaps both. Does that clear it up for you Lisa?