4 ms·

The FAANG companies are 25 years old at this point, they aren't that relevant to today's situation. Europe has had many large companies going, but most got acqu

by sohtym 4y ago

The FAANG companies are 25 years old at this point, they aren't that relevant to today's situation. Europe has had many large companies going, but most got acquired by their US competitors. In part because they could use offshore assets and also avoid taxes once acquired. But that is also only partly relevant, because the same is true of the US. If the US is doing so well by that metric where are the next US FAANG companies? The reality is that neither Europe nor the US moved up the value chain but sideways to primarily offer services. That isn't because of manufacturing. Many think so because they don't know much about manufacturing. It is because of the cost of living. Western economies can't support a knowledge based ecosystem. I can have things made in Europe, or China. It doesn't matter. Where can I go and develop a product for years, or work my way up in a product company, or eventually hire a hundred people to do it, all without suffering? The answer is nowhere because the market is dominated by service focused companies that require less start time and have a less variable success rate. In China, its almost in every decent city.

ikekkdcjkfke 4y ago
Nokia, Ericson, cars, oil sector ++ dont worry
- marvel_boy 4y ago
  Ericsson (with two 's'): just a integrator of third party equipment, European cars: they will not outlive the EV paradigm. Yes, Europe is dying.
  - riffraff 4y ago
    > European cars: they will not outlive the EV paradigm and yet WV sold >800k electric vehicles in 2022, Stellantis sold >500k and BMW sold >400k.
    - bobthepanda 4y ago
      Yeah, that’s an odd take. I would probably peg Japan as most likely to be left behind by EV, to the point where Toyota is spreading FUD in Japan about EVs being a dead-end in favor of hydrogen fuel cell cars.
      - smcin 4y ago
        "Left behind" is somewhat subjective; [0] discusses the reasons for Japan's national strategy being big on hydrogen. And if Toyota manages to FUD(/evangelize) consumers to buy hydrogen fuel cell cars, then they lock in customers and infrastructure towards hydrogen and away from EV. In part energy climate strategy, in part protectionism? Certainly it makes Japan less dependent on energy imports. > Resource-poor, Japan began research on hydrogen after the 1970s energy crunch. The 2011 Fukushima nuclear plant accident and public anti-nuclear sentiment accelerated interest in hydrogen and other clean energies. > [In 2021], the government issued its carbon neutrality road map, doubling the share of renewables providing electricity, to as much as 38% by 2030, with nuclear supplying about a fifth; its hydrogen-ammonia fuel target was set at 1%. > Japan's placing multiple bets on hydrogen. With great fanfare, last year Japan opened one of the world's biggest "green hydrogen" plants, near the site of the Fukushima nuclear accident. > Japan's hydrogen dreams aren't driven just by resource scarcity and meeting climate goals, [climate lobbyist InfluenceMap's] Nagashima said. > "Japan has lost its competitiveness to other countries in terms of production of solar panels or wind turbines, and hydrogen is seen as a sector where it could lead in the world," Nagashima said. >[US expert Wipke] said hydrogen is better suited to sectors like heavy industry and trucks, for long duration energy storage. [0]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-hydrogen-renewable-energy/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-hydrogen-renewable-energy...
        bobthepanda 4y ago
        Given that you need electricity to produce hydrogen, EVs vs hydrogen for energy imports is a bit of a wash. The results of this industrial strategy speak for themselves: > Most are there to protectively top off their tanks, another employee tells me. Japan has only about 160 hydrogen refueling stations, concentrated in the country's three major cities. By comparison, there are about 30,000 gas stations across the country. Once every three months or so, a motorist ends up stranded, their tank empty, and they have to get towed. In addition to there being only a few vehicle models to choose from, which all have high sticker prices, the paucity of refueling infrastructure has turned consumers off. And this all after Toyota has had 30 years to make the technology pan out.
    - smcin 4y ago
      'VW'. Not the US state of West Virginia.
- cjrp 4y ago
  Plenty of aerospace/defence companies too; Airbus, BAE, Dassault, Pilatus, Piaggio, Thales, Siemens, Rolls Royce.
robertlagrant 4y ago
> they aren't that relevant to today's situation They're definitely relevant in that they (plus a few others such as Red Hat, Salesforce, LinkedIn, etc etc etc) are the highest canopies in the US tech forest, meaning it's harder to grow as tall as them without being acquired by one of them. Possibly OpenAI could be one if it keeps doing well, and isn't swallowed by Microsoft.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

by sohtym 4y ago

ikekkdcjkfke 4y ago

Nokia, Ericson, cars, oil sector ++ dont worry

marvel_boy 4y ago
Ericsson (with two 's'): just a integrator of third party equipment, European cars: they will not outlive the EV paradigm. Yes, Europe is dying.
- riffraff 4y ago
  > European cars: they will not outlive the EV paradigm and yet WV sold >800k electric vehicles in 2022, Stellantis sold >500k and BMW sold >400k.
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    Yeah, that’s an odd take. I would probably peg Japan as most likely to be left behind by EV, to the point where Toyota is spreading FUD in Japan about EVs being a dead-end in favor of hydrogen fuel cell cars.
    - smcin 4y ago
      "Left behind" is somewhat subjective; [0] discusses the reasons for Japan's national strategy being big on hydrogen. And if Toyota manages to FUD(/evangelize) consumers to buy hydrogen fuel cell cars, then they lock in customers and infrastructure towards hydrogen and away from EV. In part energy climate strategy, in part protectionism? Certainly it makes Japan less dependent on energy imports. > Resource-poor, Japan began research on hydrogen after the 1970s energy crunch. The 2011 Fukushima nuclear plant accident and public anti-nuclear sentiment accelerated interest in hydrogen and other clean energies. > [In 2021], the government issued its carbon neutrality road map, doubling the share of renewables providing electricity, to as much as 38% by 2030, with nuclear supplying about a fifth; its hydrogen-ammonia fuel target was set at 1%. > Japan's placing multiple bets on hydrogen. With great fanfare, last year Japan opened one of the world's biggest "green hydrogen" plants, near the site of the Fukushima nuclear accident. > Japan's hydrogen dreams aren't driven just by resource scarcity and meeting climate goals, [climate lobbyist InfluenceMap's] Nagashima said. > "Japan has lost its competitiveness to other countries in terms of production of solar panels or wind turbines, and hydrogen is seen as a sector where it could lead in the world," Nagashima said. >[US expert Wipke] said hydrogen is better suited to sectors like heavy industry and trucks, for long duration energy storage. [0]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-hydrogen-renewable-energy/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-hydrogen-renewable-energy...
      - bobthepanda 4y ago
        Given that you need electricity to produce hydrogen, EVs vs hydrogen for energy imports is a bit of a wash. The results of this industrial strategy speak for themselves: > Most are there to protectively top off their tanks, another employee tells me. Japan has only about 160 hydrogen refueling stations, concentrated in the country's three major cities. By comparison, there are about 30,000 gas stations across the country. Once every three months or so, a motorist ends up stranded, their tank empty, and they have to get towed. In addition to there being only a few vehicle models to choose from, which all have high sticker prices, the paucity of refueling infrastructure has turned consumers off. And this all after Toyota has had 30 years to make the technology pan out.
  - smcin 4y ago
    'VW'. Not the US state of West Virginia.
cjrp 4y ago
Plenty of aerospace/defence companies too; Airbus, BAE, Dassault, Pilatus, Piaggio, Thales, Siemens, Rolls Royce.

robertlagrant 4y ago

> they aren't that relevant to today's situation They're definitely relevant in that they (plus a few others such as Red Hat, Salesforce, LinkedIn, etc etc etc) are the highest canopies in the US tech forest, meaning it's harder to grow as tall as them without being acquired by one of them. Possibly OpenAI could be one if it keeps doing well, and isn't swallowed by Microsoft.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]