9 ms·

That sounds similar to me. I was diagnosed unexpectedly at 38 and it changed my life. There is a good chance your internalised coping mechanisms are adding undu

That sounds similar to me. I was diagnosed unexpectedly at 38 and it changed my life. There is a good chance your internalised coping mechanisms are adding undue stress to your nervous system, making you tired and depressed, and ironically exacerbating the conditions for symptoms to become more disruptive (when you're tired, aren't eating properly, hyperfocusing too much and wearing yourself out, working late nights to catch up and not getting enough sleep, rinse, repeat, constant burnout). If it's within your means to do so, I can't stress enough how much better it is knowing, for sure.

bluSCALE4 4y ago
What's the benefit in knowing for sure?
- thelittleone 4y ago
  Acknowledging the problem (regardless of what one calls it) allows one to seek out solutions. If the problem has a name e.g., ADHD, one might notice a HN post about brown noise for ADHD treatment, open it and find a possible drug-free remedy that's possibly effective for them.
- gghh 4y ago
  Access to medication, which is reported to work well in conjunction with targeted therapy such as cognitive behavioral therapy. For more info see the book "Taking Charge of Adult ADHD" by Russel Barkley https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462546854 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462546854 and the DIVA-5 test that many physicians use as part of the diagnosis process https://www.divacenter.eu https://www.divacenter.eu (costs 10 EUR to download the PDF).
- triggercut 4y ago
  There is a lot of overlap in symptoms with other conditions. OCD, Autism, MDD etc. Knowing exactly what the underlying issue is gives you the best way forward in treating effectively.
  - hoseja 4y ago
    Is there even a precise "underlying issue"? Isn't it just one horrible blob of dysfunction?
    - SyzygistSix 4y ago
      Extensive testing can yield pretty specific and accurate results. You won't get that from an hour one session but my testing took ~ 15 hours total. Expensive but worth it for me.
    - reilly3000 4y ago
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363858039_Identification_of_shared_and_differentiating_genetic_architecture_for_autism_spectrum_disorder_attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_and_case_subgroups https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363858039_Identific... There is strong clustering for sure, but also good and recent evidence that ASD, ADHD, and ASD + ADHD (the community has adopted the term Audhd) are distinct at a genetic level. Those and related comorbidities are tied to dopamine transport, and thought to be strongly impacted by endocrine disruption. Brain scans reveal most differences in the basil ganglia and cerebellum, and then downstream dysfunction in the frontal lobe with executive function and sensory processing issues.
    - P_I_Staker 4y ago
      you got it!
      - hoseja 4y ago
        I certainly do!
- Doxin 4y ago
  For me it allowed to stop blaming myself for the ADHD symptoms. I'm not lazy, I'm not failing. You can't imagine how much pressure that took off, and how much better I am doing as a consequence.
- reilly3000 4y ago
  Besides stimulants there are a lot of effective interventions for ADHD. There is good literature behind balance exercises, vigorous cardio exercise, sleep adjustment, ADHD specific therapy, and coaching. Once you're diagnosed, you have access to meds and a directive from your doctor to get therapy. Don't take the common advice and seek Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. CBT doesn't work very well for ADHD, we tend to try to outsmart the process. Mostly the benefit is understanding yourself and allowing a measure of grace for your challenges. It helps you calibrate your goals, and be self aware when making decisions that you may be suffering an executive function deficit, and to seek known good supports for managing impulse control challenges. There was a time when I started taking stimulant meds, but still felt the need to finish off-topic ideas to completion. It took a lot of learning to understand that my instincts need scrutiny, and that I don't have to beat myself up for not being able to do impossible things on a regular basis. I like myself better. I get more of the important stuff done. I can even relax from time to time. I also accept that I will always have some unique struggles and special abilities.
  - P_I_Staker 4y ago
    Interesting regarding CBT, matches my experiences. I'd also add that the CBT classes, to a guy like me, is SO FREAKING BORING. This is really hard to beat if you have poorly controlled ADHD. CBT strategies are probably good for everyone to familiarize themselves with. You can probably use things like grounding at the very least. I found it useful. Some relaxation techniques could be valuable. Stimulant access is becoming a massive issue these days. I think we need legislation that grants it as a right to people with ADHD or narcolepsy. I think there's even a case for legalization. Relationships with psychs can be complicated, and the medical industry is not very kind to ADHD. eg. you can get fired by your psych and be abandoned with medication, basically for having ADHD. People with ADHD are perceived to have behavioral problems. Those same problems can be used as an excuse not to treat you.
  - bluSCALE4 4y ago
    > It took a lot of learning to understand that my instincts need scrutiny I think this is may main takeaway from this thread.
- lynx23 4y ago
  Legal tweaking?
  - samtho 4y ago
    It is only because of shit opinions like this that the stimulant medications (which many ADHD sufferers are prescribed) are still so difficult to get. Draconian laws based on racist and classist ideals by non-medical professionals created 50 years ago make these life-changing medications difficult to use uninterrupted due to the excessive amount of regulation surrounding just getting them filled at a pharmacy. These are not street drugs nor are they used recreationally, rather they are prescribed under the strict supervision of a qualified medical professional and that should be the end of any discussion.
    - Eumenes 4y ago
      Stimulant meds difficult to get? Racist? Classist? This must be parody.
      - SyzygistSix 4y ago
        It is very difficult in many parts of the US to get a prescription. If one is a high-functioning child of professionals, much less so. Someone who is rather dysfunctional as an adult can find it very difficult, when they are precisely the group that can benefit most. The tendency for poor undiagnosed people to attempt to self-medicate just to feel okay is considered a factor that places them at-risk to abuse the medication in the minds of many, when medicating the ADHD would be extremely helpful to reduce self-medication in many situations. Adult non-professionals and "losers" who have managed to get diagnosed, a huge hurdle in and of itself, often face an uphill battle to get a prescription, much of which is unnecessary and based in classism and racism.
      - csbingel 4y ago
        Nope, I'm in Alabama, where I cannot get more than 30 days supply at a time, and must meet monthly with a psychiatrist in an area where almost no doctors are taking new patients, and even once you're an existing patient, appointments can be impossible to get. It can take me weeks just to get a call back from my doctor's office. Supply is regularly interrupted, and it can take weeks to get a prescription refilled.
- rahoulb 4y ago
  For me, lots of things I used to struggle with suddenly made sense and now I have strategies for coping with them that actually work. Whereas previously I would try various strategies and end up hating myself when they didn't work. I used to drink far too much - that was a way for me to quiet the noise in my head - and now I'm aware (and have meds), I can drink sensibly. I used to be late for everything - this is because I hate waiting and would rather have been late than have to kill ten minutes doing nothing. Now I know, I give myself things to do before the meeting (or whatever) starts. I used to have a long-running internal conflict between my need to plan and control everything and my desire to "go with the flow" and take things as they come. Now I understand there are some things that I need to keep tight control over and all the rest I can just let it happen. It's possible I would have come across these strategies without the diagnosis, but I'm in my late 40s and was only diagnosed last year. I had been failing with all the strategies I had tried and it was resulting in me hating myself and feeling inadequate that I was unable to cope with things everyone else seemed to find easy. But now I know the cause, I know where my boundaries are and what I can and can't "fix". (As for blood pressure - mine was borderline high but it actually fell once I started taking the meds - I assume this is because I was actually more relaxed and able to cope with life).
irjustin 4y ago
Did you become medicated? I was diagnosed but also have High Blood Pressure (HBP), genetics, and most of the meds we tested cause an uncomfortable rise in pressure that just wasn't worth it. My coping mechanisms are what I have left I suppose.
- ddorian43 4y ago
  What's your health like? Meaning, age, gender, weight, height and fitness level (aka are you fat and unhealthy or fit and train 3x+ weekly)?
- anonymoushn 4y ago
  As documented by Scott Codex[0], there is a medication that may address these issues, but you may have trouble getting it prescribed. [0]: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
  - irjustin 4y ago
    Thanks so much for this link. Super helpful. Went through them and found commenters who had hbp. guanfacine was a recommendation to try. I'll see if I can get a hold of some... not sure.
  - herbst 4y ago
    In Switzerland you can get dextroamphetamine made by a pharma chain from here. Other than ritalin and Adderal that are also commonly available, it's not only much cheaper (no brand licenses), but also way more effective with less side effects. Pretty sure it doesn't help with blood pressure, but especially the way to common Ritalin comes with weird side effects that most people likely won't enjoy.
- triggercut 4y ago
  I did, my Blood Pressure is not great either but luckily, not enough to prevent taking anything, but enough to be careful. I'm in ok shape, not the best I've ever been in, but not terrible. I just take something to help reduce my heart rate at night. Unfortunately stimulants don't have much of an affect on me so I take quite a high dose at the moment. I'm doing all the suggested things to help them along, like increasing protein, getting more Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin D etc, staying away from citrus. Ensuring good sleep hygiene. I see a psychologist regularly to unpick the weight of all the masking and coping mechanisms. It's a long process, but making much more progress than when I thought it was just depression and perfectionism issues. I'm starting Neurofeedback to see if that helps and planning to use an ADHD specific performance coach in the new year to help with work.
Gene_Parmesan 4y ago
Same, except aged 28. I completely randomly happened to stumble upon a detailed description of inattentive ADHD, and had the thought, "Hmm, I wonder how doctors are able to differentiate between someone who has these symptoms and has ADHD, and someone like me who has these symptoms but doesn't have ADHD." Then it hit me like a brick wall. Now I understand the phrase "it was like time stopped." Blinders came off and I felt like I re-evaluated every life experience I'd had in about 30 seconds. Two doctors appointments later I was hearing "Oh yes, you certainly have intense ADHD, the question is just how intense." ADHD affects so many things as you mention. For me, getting treated has nearly entirely eliminated all forms of anxiety. For instance, I was a socially anxious mess in any sort of group setting; now I intentionally seek out conversations and enjoy telling stories. Some days I hardly recognize the old me. Strange feeling. But yes, diagnosis + treatment highly recommended. Untreated ADHD increases your risk factors for so many things -- for instance, substance issues (NIH estimates fully 50% of people with substance issues have ADHD whether they know it or not).
- xvector 4y ago
  God I hope I can get my diagnosis soon. You describe me to a T right now and I'm 27.
- cambaceres 4y ago
  What did your treatment look like?
- k__ 4y ago
  I thought about getting diagnosed too, but to be frank, while I certainly wanna try those meds, I don't wanna take them for the rest of my life, let alone pay for them on a regular basis.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    Yeah. Also, some countries still treat anyone with any kind of official mental "unusualness" as needing to be thrown in a looney bin. :( Additionally, it's an unknown how long the current acceptance of ADHD (etc) will last in modern / western countries. We could just be going through a limited-time golden period.
dijit 4y ago
I've mentioned this before but there are serious warnings against getting tested in Sweden. I was told that it can affect my health insurance, my mortgage and that I can't hold certain licenses (Pilot, HGV). There are some direct consequences to being diagnosed and some indirect ones; and they warn that once the process of getting diagnosed starts; it cannot be stopped. So, of course, I didn't seek a diagnosis- despite having many ADHD markers.
- exikyut 4y ago
  (HGV = Heavy Goods Vehicle) The pilot thing is the same in AU too.
- robertnn 4y ago
  Another Swede here. I have never heard any of this before. Who told you this? I mean.. health insurance? You mean if you have supplemental private insurance? Mortgage? I have a mortgage and they have no access to any kind of health information and I would be very surprised if any bank would request it from me.
  - dijit 4y ago
    The information I got was from a company called Modigo but it was already discussed with my private psychologist; So Modigo just clarified what I had been told and had understood in writing. Regarding the mortgage thing, I had the same feeling as you, but how it works is that mortgages are cheaper if you buy them with private insurance (income protection, life insurance). For example: Nordea (a bank) and “If” (an insurance company) have a close partnership offering discounts for each others services when buying an apartment or house. Based on the information If gives backs to Nordea there can be greater discounts on mortgages; this worked in my favour previously and I got a 1.34% mortgage when the list price for 3y fixed was 2.1%. It could be expanded further to say that if “If” considers me too high risk from various factors regarding my health that they would not even offer me health insurance at all, then the bank could use as justification itself that I am high risk and not extend a loan offer.
    - 4y ago
papascrubs 4y ago
Diagnosed at 32. I knew beforehand even (guessed at least), but I put off doing anything about it. I didn't realize how much it was affecting me. And how many unhealthy coping mechanisms I had built up in my life.

bluSCALE4 4y ago

What's the benefit in knowing for sure?

thelittleone 4y ago
Acknowledging the problem (regardless of what one calls it) allows one to seek out solutions. If the problem has a name e.g., ADHD, one might notice a HN post about brown noise for ADHD treatment, open it and find a possible drug-free remedy that's possibly effective for them.
gghh 4y ago
Access to medication, which is reported to work well in conjunction with targeted therapy such as cognitive behavioral therapy. For more info see the book "Taking Charge of Adult ADHD" by Russel Barkley https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462546854 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462546854 and the DIVA-5 test that many physicians use as part of the diagnosis process https://www.divacenter.eu https://www.divacenter.eu (costs 10 EUR to download the PDF).
triggercut 4y ago
There is a lot of overlap in symptoms with other conditions. OCD, Autism, MDD etc. Knowing exactly what the underlying issue is gives you the best way forward in treating effectively.
- hoseja 4y ago
  Is there even a precise "underlying issue"? Isn't it just one horrible blob of dysfunction?
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    Extensive testing can yield pretty specific and accurate results. You won't get that from an hour one session but my testing took ~ 15 hours total. Expensive but worth it for me.
  - reilly3000 4y ago
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363858039_Identification_of_shared_and_differentiating_genetic_architecture_for_autism_spectrum_disorder_attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_and_case_subgroups https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363858039_Identific... There is strong clustering for sure, but also good and recent evidence that ASD, ADHD, and ASD + ADHD (the community has adopted the term Audhd) are distinct at a genetic level. Those and related comorbidities are tied to dopamine transport, and thought to be strongly impacted by endocrine disruption. Brain scans reveal most differences in the basil ganglia and cerebellum, and then downstream dysfunction in the frontal lobe with executive function and sensory processing issues.
  - P_I_Staker 4y ago
    you got it!
    - hoseja 4y ago
      I certainly do!
Doxin 4y ago
For me it allowed to stop blaming myself for the ADHD symptoms. I'm not lazy, I'm not failing. You can't imagine how much pressure that took off, and how much better I am doing as a consequence.
reilly3000 4y ago
Besides stimulants there are a lot of effective interventions for ADHD. There is good literature behind balance exercises, vigorous cardio exercise, sleep adjustment, ADHD specific therapy, and coaching. Once you're diagnosed, you have access to meds and a directive from your doctor to get therapy. Don't take the common advice and seek Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. CBT doesn't work very well for ADHD, we tend to try to outsmart the process. Mostly the benefit is understanding yourself and allowing a measure of grace for your challenges. It helps you calibrate your goals, and be self aware when making decisions that you may be suffering an executive function deficit, and to seek known good supports for managing impulse control challenges. There was a time when I started taking stimulant meds, but still felt the need to finish off-topic ideas to completion. It took a lot of learning to understand that my instincts need scrutiny, and that I don't have to beat myself up for not being able to do impossible things on a regular basis. I like myself better. I get more of the important stuff done. I can even relax from time to time. I also accept that I will always have some unique struggles and special abilities.
- P_I_Staker 4y ago
  Interesting regarding CBT, matches my experiences. I'd also add that the CBT classes, to a guy like me, is SO FREAKING BORING. This is really hard to beat if you have poorly controlled ADHD. CBT strategies are probably good for everyone to familiarize themselves with. You can probably use things like grounding at the very least. I found it useful. Some relaxation techniques could be valuable. Stimulant access is becoming a massive issue these days. I think we need legislation that grants it as a right to people with ADHD or narcolepsy. I think there's even a case for legalization. Relationships with psychs can be complicated, and the medical industry is not very kind to ADHD. eg. you can get fired by your psych and be abandoned with medication, basically for having ADHD. People with ADHD are perceived to have behavioral problems. Those same problems can be used as an excuse not to treat you.
- bluSCALE4 4y ago
  > It took a lot of learning to understand that my instincts need scrutiny I think this is may main takeaway from this thread.
lynx23 4y ago
Legal tweaking?
- samtho 4y ago
  It is only because of shit opinions like this that the stimulant medications (which many ADHD sufferers are prescribed) are still so difficult to get. Draconian laws based on racist and classist ideals by non-medical professionals created 50 years ago make these life-changing medications difficult to use uninterrupted due to the excessive amount of regulation surrounding just getting them filled at a pharmacy. These are not street drugs nor are they used recreationally, rather they are prescribed under the strict supervision of a qualified medical professional and that should be the end of any discussion.
  - Eumenes 4y ago
    Stimulant meds difficult to get? Racist? Classist? This must be parody.
    - SyzygistSix 4y ago
      It is very difficult in many parts of the US to get a prescription. If one is a high-functioning child of professionals, much less so. Someone who is rather dysfunctional as an adult can find it very difficult, when they are precisely the group that can benefit most. The tendency for poor undiagnosed people to attempt to self-medicate just to feel okay is considered a factor that places them at-risk to abuse the medication in the minds of many, when medicating the ADHD would be extremely helpful to reduce self-medication in many situations. Adult non-professionals and "losers" who have managed to get diagnosed, a huge hurdle in and of itself, often face an uphill battle to get a prescription, much of which is unnecessary and based in classism and racism.
    - csbingel 4y ago
      Nope, I'm in Alabama, where I cannot get more than 30 days supply at a time, and must meet monthly with a psychiatrist in an area where almost no doctors are taking new patients, and even once you're an existing patient, appointments can be impossible to get. It can take me weeks just to get a call back from my doctor's office. Supply is regularly interrupted, and it can take weeks to get a prescription refilled.
rahoulb 4y ago
For me, lots of things I used to struggle with suddenly made sense and now I have strategies for coping with them that actually work. Whereas previously I would try various strategies and end up hating myself when they didn't work. I used to drink far too much - that was a way for me to quiet the noise in my head - and now I'm aware (and have meds), I can drink sensibly. I used to be late for everything - this is because I hate waiting and would rather have been late than have to kill ten minutes doing nothing. Now I know, I give myself things to do before the meeting (or whatever) starts. I used to have a long-running internal conflict between my need to plan and control everything and my desire to "go with the flow" and take things as they come. Now I understand there are some things that I need to keep tight control over and all the rest I can just let it happen. It's possible I would have come across these strategies without the diagnosis, but I'm in my late 40s and was only diagnosed last year. I had been failing with all the strategies I had tried and it was resulting in me hating myself and feeling inadequate that I was unable to cope with things everyone else seemed to find easy. But now I know the cause, I know where my boundaries are and what I can and can't "fix". (As for blood pressure - mine was borderline high but it actually fell once I started taking the meds - I assume this is because I was actually more relaxed and able to cope with life).

irjustin 4y ago

Did you become medicated? I was diagnosed but also have High Blood Pressure (HBP), genetics, and most of the meds we tested cause an uncomfortable rise in pressure that just wasn't worth it. My coping mechanisms are what I have left I suppose.

ddorian43 4y ago
What's your health like? Meaning, age, gender, weight, height and fitness level (aka are you fat and unhealthy or fit and train 3x+ weekly)?
anonymoushn 4y ago
As documented by Scott Codex[0], there is a medication that may address these issues, but you may have trouble getting it prescribed. [0]: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
- irjustin 4y ago
  Thanks so much for this link. Super helpful. Went through them and found commenters who had hbp. guanfacine was a recommendation to try. I'll see if I can get a hold of some... not sure.
- herbst 4y ago
  In Switzerland you can get dextroamphetamine made by a pharma chain from here. Other than ritalin and Adderal that are also commonly available, it's not only much cheaper (no brand licenses), but also way more effective with less side effects. Pretty sure it doesn't help with blood pressure, but especially the way to common Ritalin comes with weird side effects that most people likely won't enjoy.
triggercut 4y ago
I did, my Blood Pressure is not great either but luckily, not enough to prevent taking anything, but enough to be careful. I'm in ok shape, not the best I've ever been in, but not terrible. I just take something to help reduce my heart rate at night. Unfortunately stimulants don't have much of an affect on me so I take quite a high dose at the moment. I'm doing all the suggested things to help them along, like increasing protein, getting more Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin D etc, staying away from citrus. Ensuring good sleep hygiene. I see a psychologist regularly to unpick the weight of all the masking and coping mechanisms. It's a long process, but making much more progress than when I thought it was just depression and perfectionism issues. I'm starting Neurofeedback to see if that helps and planning to use an ADHD specific performance coach in the new year to help with work.

Gene_Parmesan 4y ago

Same, except aged 28. I completely randomly happened to stumble upon a detailed description of inattentive ADHD, and had the thought, "Hmm, I wonder how doctors are able to differentiate between someone who has these symptoms and has ADHD, and someone like me who has these symptoms but doesn't have ADHD." Then it hit me like a brick wall. Now I understand the phrase "it was like time stopped." Blinders came off and I felt like I re-evaluated every life experience I'd had in about 30 seconds. Two doctors appointments later I was hearing "Oh yes, you certainly have intense ADHD, the question is just how intense." ADHD affects so many things as you mention. For me, getting treated has nearly entirely eliminated all forms of anxiety. For instance, I was a socially anxious mess in any sort of group setting; now I intentionally seek out conversations and enjoy telling stories. Some days I hardly recognize the old me. Strange feeling. But yes, diagnosis + treatment highly recommended. Untreated ADHD increases your risk factors for so many things -- for instance, substance issues (NIH estimates fully 50% of people with substance issues have ADHD whether they know it or not).

xvector 4y ago
God I hope I can get my diagnosis soon. You describe me to a T right now and I'm 27.
cambaceres 4y ago
What did your treatment look like?
k__ 4y ago
I thought about getting diagnosed too, but to be frank, while I certainly wanna try those meds, I don't wanna take them for the rest of my life, let alone pay for them on a regular basis.
- justinclift 4y ago
  Yeah. Also, some countries still treat anyone with any kind of official mental "unusualness" as needing to be thrown in a looney bin. :( Additionally, it's an unknown how long the current acceptance of ADHD (etc) will last in modern / western countries. We could just be going through a limited-time golden period.

dijit 4y ago

I've mentioned this before but there are serious warnings against getting tested in Sweden. I was told that it can affect my health insurance, my mortgage and that I can't hold certain licenses (Pilot, HGV). There are some direct consequences to being diagnosed and some indirect ones; and they warn that once the process of getting diagnosed starts; it cannot be stopped. So, of course, I didn't seek a diagnosis- despite having many ADHD markers.

exikyut 4y ago
(HGV = Heavy Goods Vehicle) The pilot thing is the same in AU too.
robertnn 4y ago
Another Swede here. I have never heard any of this before. Who told you this? I mean.. health insurance? You mean if you have supplemental private insurance? Mortgage? I have a mortgage and they have no access to any kind of health information and I would be very surprised if any bank would request it from me.
- dijit 4y ago
  The information I got was from a company called Modigo but it was already discussed with my private psychologist; So Modigo just clarified what I had been told and had understood in writing. Regarding the mortgage thing, I had the same feeling as you, but how it works is that mortgages are cheaper if you buy them with private insurance (income protection, life insurance). For example: Nordea (a bank) and “If” (an insurance company) have a close partnership offering discounts for each others services when buying an apartment or house. Based on the information If gives backs to Nordea there can be greater discounts on mortgages; this worked in my favour previously and I got a 1.34% mortgage when the list price for 3y fixed was 2.1%. It could be expanded further to say that if “If” considers me too high risk from various factors regarding my health that they would not even offer me health insurance at all, then the bank could use as justification itself that I am high risk and not extend a loan offer.
  - 4y ago

papascrubs 4y ago

Diagnosed at 32. I knew beforehand even (guessed at least), but I put off doing anything about it. I didn't realize how much it was affecting me. And how many unhealthy coping mechanisms I had built up in my life.