6 ms·

It's not even accommodation to small minorities, it's accommodation to an ideology. Activists push this conflation to make it appear about minorities and not th

It's not even accommodation to small minorities, it's accommodation to an ideology. Activists push this conflation to make it appear about minorities and not their ideology. They present it as though minorities all have the same opinion and then weaponize your compassion to get compliance. "Oh, this is what minorities want. Ok, I'm a good person, I want to respect their wishes." What you may not realize is that many gay and trans people strongly disagree with gender ideology and do not want this. Indeed, they don't all have the same opinion! The loud, aggressive, too online activists do not speak for everyone.

LightHugger 4y ago
I would think ideological minority is a kind of thing that is worth considering accommodating too, but the problem is the relevant activists actively want to harm people with opposing ideology (the chosen method of enforcement is trying to get people fired and otherwise ruined). So they have no interest in ideological accommodation themselves.
- onos 4y ago
  Great point. In other words, we are experiencing the usual failure mode to liberalism: it can be taken advantage of by non liberal actors. Not sure what the restoring force is to prevent this.
  - remarkEon 4y ago
    You ignore them. And if that doesn’t work, you politely - but firmly - ask them to leave.
    - Jiro 4y ago
      The reason that this is considered a failure mode is that these systems are set up so that you can't just ignore activists who speak for, or claim to be speaking for, an approved minority. Just saying "no, I'm going to ignore your demands" gets you hurt, because you are required to take positive action.
      - remarkEon 4y ago
        True, but in many respects that failure mode is academic, and localized. Normal people who aren't way too online don't sit around and debate whether women have penises or if men can get pregnant. It's possible that this becomes something that is no longer an academic question.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > True, but in many respects that failure mode is academic, and localized. Normal people who aren't way too online don't sit around and debate... But for instance, journalists are often "way too online," and people in general seem to have a bad habit of seeing social media activity as some kind of representation of society as a whole (because it's easy). It doesn't matter what "normal people" think or do, if the media as a whole starts saying something different.
        remarkEon 4y ago
        Also true, journalists (the people who literally know nothing) have outsized power and influence in controlling what these "normal" people see as, well, normal. I don't want to get in a flame war, but I guess my comments are meant to convey a perspective that is optimistic that these "normals" will reject and ignore the machinations of the way too online tech people who, again, are the only ones that want to debate basic biology for some reason. About half of my life has been on a farm or in the military, so it's amusing seeing all of this debate about "gender" and "sex". Again, normal people don't think about this.
onphonenow 4y ago
I corrected a Latino that the proper term was Latinx - and learned that the ideology is def different than the minority :)
- akomtu 4y ago
  I find it curious that the dems chose to run this renaming experiment on latinos. They could've tried to push "blax" - at least you wouldn't need to break your tongue to pronounce it. My theory is they wanted to see how much they can bend the public opinion, and an awkward word would better test compliance.
  - SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
    It's not something that "the dems" made up. It seems to have started as a self-descriptive term for nonbinary Latinos, although the history's not 100% clear. But as the source article describes, there's a large and influential segment of the populace who believes that in order to be inclusive they should use trans-focused language as much as possible. So people started saying "Latinx" for precisely the same reasons as they stopped saying "pregnant women".
  - Biganon 4y ago
    The word "black" does not have a gender connotation. "Latino" is a masculine word, the feminine equivalent being "Latina". That's the problem (if you consider that a problem)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - PhasmaFelis 4y ago
    The term "Latinx" was invented by Latinos. It's also wildly unpopular among many Latinos, because there are hundreds of millions of them and they don't all have the same opinions. On the whole it seems to be a flop. But let's at least credit Latinos as a group with the agency to come up with their own ideas, good or bad, hey?
nostromo 4y ago
Yes, exactly. I’m involved with several gay organizations - one professional and one centered around gay athletics. In both cases there are a small group of activists that are trying to erase gay and lesbian identity, and all mentions of gender, from the org to be more trans- and non-binary-inclusive. In one case a trans board member didn’t feel represented by the organization name (which includes “gay”) because they now identify as straight with their new gender identity. And for this they demanded the org with thousands of gay members should be renamed. People were afraid to push back out of fear of being labeled transphobic.
jdkee 4y ago
See r/detrans for how detransitioners are bullied mercilessly.
l3uwin 4y ago

LightHugger 4y ago

I would think ideological minority is a kind of thing that is worth considering accommodating too, but the problem is the relevant activists actively want to harm people with opposing ideology (the chosen method of enforcement is trying to get people fired and otherwise ruined). So they have no interest in ideological accommodation themselves.

onos 4y ago
Great point. In other words, we are experiencing the usual failure mode to liberalism: it can be taken advantage of by non liberal actors. Not sure what the restoring force is to prevent this.
- remarkEon 4y ago
  You ignore them. And if that doesn’t work, you politely - but firmly - ask them to leave.
  - Jiro 4y ago
    The reason that this is considered a failure mode is that these systems are set up so that you can't just ignore activists who speak for, or claim to be speaking for, an approved minority. Just saying "no, I'm going to ignore your demands" gets you hurt, because you are required to take positive action.
    - remarkEon 4y ago
      True, but in many respects that failure mode is academic, and localized. Normal people who aren't way too online don't sit around and debate whether women have penises or if men can get pregnant. It's possible that this becomes something that is no longer an academic question.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > True, but in many respects that failure mode is academic, and localized. Normal people who aren't way too online don't sit around and debate... But for instance, journalists are often "way too online," and people in general seem to have a bad habit of seeing social media activity as some kind of representation of society as a whole (because it's easy). It doesn't matter what "normal people" think or do, if the media as a whole starts saying something different.
        remarkEon 4y ago
        Also true, journalists (the people who literally know nothing) have outsized power and influence in controlling what these "normal" people see as, well, normal. I don't want to get in a flame war, but I guess my comments are meant to convey a perspective that is optimistic that these "normals" will reject and ignore the machinations of the way too online tech people who, again, are the only ones that want to debate basic biology for some reason. About half of my life has been on a farm or in the military, so it's amusing seeing all of this debate about "gender" and "sex". Again, normal people don't think about this.

onphonenow 4y ago

I corrected a Latino that the proper term was Latinx - and learned that the ideology is def different than the minority :)

akomtu 4y ago
I find it curious that the dems chose to run this renaming experiment on latinos. They could've tried to push "blax" - at least you wouldn't need to break your tongue to pronounce it. My theory is they wanted to see how much they can bend the public opinion, and an awkward word would better test compliance.
- SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
  It's not something that "the dems" made up. It seems to have started as a self-descriptive term for nonbinary Latinos, although the history's not 100% clear. But as the source article describes, there's a large and influential segment of the populace who believes that in order to be inclusive they should use trans-focused language as much as possible. So people started saying "Latinx" for precisely the same reasons as they stopped saying "pregnant women".
- Biganon 4y ago
  The word "black" does not have a gender connotation. "Latino" is a masculine word, the feminine equivalent being "Latina". That's the problem (if you consider that a problem)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- PhasmaFelis 4y ago
  The term "Latinx" was invented by Latinos. It's also wildly unpopular among many Latinos, because there are hundreds of millions of them and they don't all have the same opinions. On the whole it seems to be a flop. But let's at least credit Latinos as a group with the agency to come up with their own ideas, good or bad, hey?

nostromo 4y ago

Yes, exactly. I’m involved with several gay organizations - one professional and one centered around gay athletics. In both cases there are a small group of activists that are trying to erase gay and lesbian identity, and all mentions of gender, from the org to be more trans- and non-binary-inclusive. In one case a trans board member didn’t feel represented by the organization name (which includes “gay”) because they now identify as straight with their new gender identity. And for this they demanded the org with thousands of gay members should be renamed. People were afraid to push back out of fear of being labeled transphobic.

jdkee 4y ago

See r/detrans for how detransitioners are bullied mercilessly.

l3uwin 4y ago