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Is there any regulated/"official" definition to the word "processed" in this context? I see the word so much in the context of food in general and I've never kn
by onceiwasthere 4y ago
Is there any regulated/"official" definition to the word "processed" in this context? I see the word so much in the context of food in general and I've never known exactly what it means.
- ImHereToVote 4y ago
- throwaway4aday 4y agoYou're saying that this study only concerns people who eat raw meat?
- _aavaa_ 4y agoThat’s a meaningless definition. Does peeling carrots suddenly make them “processed”?
- tomrod 4y agoYep. Removing the skin is a process, and the carrot underneath is then exposed to oxidation. No clue if there is a health effect due to it. Just pointing out what processing means. Though usually processing is totally destroying the physical structure of something and applying heat/freezing/chemical exposure for preservation or transformation.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoAgain, this is a meaningless definition, and not at all what the vast majority of people mean when they say processed. They may not agree on their definition of processed in this context, but it sure isn't this definition. By this definition chewed food is processed because it exposes the carrot to digestion (which itself would be processing).
- torstenvl 4y agoYes. Everything that isn't raw is processed. If processed isn't what you mean by "processed," maybe you should say what you mean, e.g., smoking, adding sulfites, nitrates, sodium, and/or sugar.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoI don't need to provide a definition for what is a nebulous term like "processed" in order to argue that the one provided in the original comment is both ridiculous and not congruent with what most other people would consider processed. > Everything that isn't raw is processed. Likewise, this is a circular definition.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- pessimizer 4y agoYou only do if you want to make that argument successfully. >> Everything that isn't raw is processed. > Likewise, this is a circular definition. No, it is not. A circular definition is that everything that is processed is processed, the one you're carefully avoiding in favor of argument by calling something ridiculous.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoThen please define “raw” and “processing” in such a way that “raw” =/= “not processed”.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- weird-eye-issue 4y agoSo you are eating processed food if you peel a carrot and then eat it? Fascinating
- dtech 4y agoNo, this is not what people mean with "processed food" at all.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoBut that is what the comment he's referring to means, that's the point.
- tomrod 4y agoRight, you're arguing a connotation on "processed" when the question was "would this hypothetical count as processed?" The hypothetical shows the disconnect between denotation and connotation.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoExcept that it was clear that I meant "processed" in the way that it is generally used in the context of "processed food" and not in the sense of "having had something done to it".
- pessimizer 4y agoThe argument is that it doesn't have a general meaning, so relying on that general meaning misses the point.
- _aavaa_ 4y agoAnd that argument is wrong. A “sandwich” doesn’t have an explicit general meaning, but almost nobody would classify a pizza as an open face sandwich. Likewise, the vast majority of people would consider a carrot (peeled or otherwise) “unprocessed food” and would consider cheetos “processed food”.
- mingus88 4y agoChewing is a process that totally destroys the physical structure of the food, and exposes it to oxidation. Chewing is not what anybody ever means when they talk about processed food.
- tomrod 4y agoWe semantically agree. There is a starting point to "processing" and the commentator's question for whether something applied falls into scope. Whether the connotation is agreeable to denotation is sort of a separate discussion, IMO. Separation of degree, not kind.
- toast0 4y agoI don't generally want to eat food that's already been chewed. Arguably things like applesauce have been industrially chewed though. When you eat food, your body processes it, exposing it to all sorts of nasty physical and chemical processes. The objection to 'processed foods' is mostly about when the processing significantly changes the content of the food, whether that's from significant additives, or strucural changes like breaking down fiber. If you're ok with eating meat, nobody much cares about processing that removes parts that people don't eat and don't want to see, but if anything much is added, that's flagged (dye, water, preservatives, etc)
- HPsquared 4y agoTo get really nitpicky, digging the carrots out of the ground is also a process. Where does it end?
- lupire 4y agoIt's a gradient. More processing makes it more processed.
- tomrod 4y agoSlippery, sloped, and in the case of carrots, roasted with olive oil and some kind of herb (dill, rosemary, thyme, or basil. The "or" is important here), perhaps some onion and garlic. Or on top of salad with balsamic vinaigrette. The other comment on gradients is a good thought too.
- denton-scratch 4y agoUnless you're paying EU100 per litre, your "balsamic vinaigrette" isn't made with proper balsamic vinegar. It's made from regular vinegar mixed with colouring agents, flavouring agents and preservatives. Proper balsamic vinegar is made using a solera system, and takes a number of years. I doubt any restaurant chef would use real balsamic vinegar to make a "balsamic vinaigrette"; the real thing is for sipping.
- tomrod 4y agoNeat to learn. I'm almost certainly using a knockoff
- denton-scratch 4y agoI'm not really being fair. It's just that the standards are terribly confusing. There are two main standards; one is ultra-strict, and the other is so relaxed as to be meaningless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balsamic_vinegar_of_Modena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balsamic_vinegar_of_Modena Well, that's how I see it. I didn't mean that the lower-grade stuff is 'knock-off'; I've never so much as seen a bottle of the 'proper' stuff, except in photos. But I'm sure I wouldn't take snifters of normal deli balsamic vinegar.
- pessimizer 4y agoNo, that's a meaningful definition. When food is transformed through a process, it becomes processed. The alternative definition seems to be to throw the word around randomly, and to vaguely mention something like a tv dinner from the 50s as a counterexample. It's annoying. I wish when people were talking about "processed meats" they'd talk about which meats and which processes. They're not fungible. Once you've learned one process, you haven't learned them all. Whether I'm using sodium chloride or sodium citrate makes a difference if we're doing science.
- ystad 4y agoCooked is not processed
- criddell 4y agoYes it is, it just isn't necessarily a form of processing to be avoided.
- weird-eye-issue 4y agoFreshly cooked chicken or steak is processed? I don't think that is the generally accepted definition but maybe I'm mistaken
- TheLoafOfBread 4y agoYes. It went through process of cooking, which causes that proteins in the meat will fall apart due to heat - denaturation. So it is processed by definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_(biochemistry) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_(biochemistry)
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoI don't think that's reasonable because there are certain categories of food where cooking makes them healthier/edible. I'm not sure that eating raw eggs is statistically healthier than boiled ones and would be surprised by such a study concluding as such. I would be very concerned about people insisting on eating raw beans? Lentils? Potatoes?
- Aaargh20318 4y agoButchering is still a form of processing. So basically we should only eat live cows.
- mark_l_watson 4y agoBuy foods in bulk, not boxed or in plastic. Make food from scratch from whole grains, veggies, peppers, spices. Avoid all of the seed oils. My Dad is 101 and doing OK, and he has always preferred large salads, small amounts of lean meat. I feel better whenever I hit the Fuhrman Diet for six months.
- germinalphrase 4y agoWhat non-seed oils do people use for moderate/high temp cooking? I use olive for almost everything, but it’s not the best choice for high(er) temp so I go for the sunflower oil.
- docandrew 4y agoAvocado Oil is supposed to be a good option too with high smoke point. Costco has a reasonably priced option. I’ve read though that the whole fear of over-heated olive oil is overblown, so who knows. Like everything in nutritional science it is unclear.
- dariusm5 4y agoFor moderate to high temperature cooking I use either ghee or beef tallow. For deep frying, beef tallow is the best. Both of them are easy to make at home and last for months in the fridge or at room temperature.
- germinalphrase 4y agoThanks! Looks like ghee has a smoke point of 250 °C (485 °F) degrees which is quite good.
- denton-scratch 4y agoFor frying, I usually use a mixture of olive oil and butter. The oil slows down the process of the butter burning. It's certainly not as good as ghee, but ghee tends to make stuff greasy.
- weatherlight 4y agoI always assumed it meant, cured, chemically preserved or fermented.
- Avicebron 4y agoOther than the pedantic both cured and fermented count as chemically preserved in a broad sense, I think the general modern understanding of "processed foods" means that "ultra-processed foods" per the webmd definition https://www.webmd.com/diet/what-are-processed-foods#:~:text=Processed%20foods%20refer%20to%20any,salts%2C%20sugars%2C%20or%20fats https://www.webmd.com/diet/what-are-processed-foods#:~:text=.... e.g. foods that are doped with additives that don't necessarily occur in the food's base state, including dyes, preservatives, added flavors generated in lab environments, etc. To be fair I'm not advocating either way, since I'm sure I ate some form of ultra-processed food this morning just by having grocery store brand jelly on my toast, but I think the argument is that by mixing these into the diet frequently there are unknown long-term side effects on the human body by eating these in excess.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago> Processed meat refers to meat that has been preserved by smoking, curing, salting or adding preservatives. This includes sausages, bacon, ham, salami and pâtés. > If you currently eat more than 90g (cooked weight) of red or processed meat a day, the Department of Health and Social Care advises that you cut down to 70g. https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/meat-nutrition/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/meat-nutrit...
- chasd00 4y agodoes pork count as red meat? because, man, i would grill up some good pork chops every single day if my family would let me.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoYes, it does. There's a comprehensive list here: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-guidelines-and-food-labels/red-meat-and-the-risk-of-bowel-cancer/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-guidelines-and-fo... Pork, veal, venison etc. = red meat.
- adrian_b 4y agoScanning the article, I do not see any definition, except that at one place "fresh" is also mentioned. I assume that "unprocessed" meat refers to meat that is cooked at home, as opposed to buying sausages, ham or any other industrial meat products, which may contain various additives or impurities from techniques like smoking. This new study still shows an increased probability of cancer when consuming more than 200 g of unprocessed red meat per day, which is indeed more than should normally be eaten. I have always been skeptical about these claims about the effects of eating meat, because they do not differentiate between the different methods of cooking the meat. I doubt that eating meat that was fried in oil has the same health effects as eating meat that was baked in an oven.
- ufo 4y agoFor a precise definition of "processed", check out the NOVA system. The biggest villains are the "ultra processed" foods. https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/un-decade-of-nutrition-the-nova-food-classification-and-the-trouble-with-ultraprocessing/2A9776922A28F8F757BDA32C3266AC2A https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrit...
- denton-scratch 4y agoSo the stock photo for "processed food" in MSM reports seems to be a picture of a hamburger. As far as I'm aware, the only processed things in a hamburger are the bun and the cheese. Oh - maybe the secret sauce; but I tell them to hold the cheese and sauce. For me, processed meat means rubbery hotdog sausages; reconstituted chicken meat; doner kebab; TV dinners; fishcakes, and so on. [Edit: ham and bacon, of course, but only a crazy person eats a quarter-pound of bacon.] I imagine some of those are fine, but if you can't see the unprocessed ingredient, then the 'Lemon Market' rule says it's probably not what it's supposed to be.