7 ms·

It’s unfortunate that what started out with altruistic motives, a method for decentralized anonymous asset exchange, is being derailed by opportunists. There wa

It’s unfortunate that what started out with altruistic motives, a method for decentralized anonymous asset exchange, is being derailed by opportunists. There was a time where a 51% attack was the biggest concern. All that said, I’m not surprised at where we are today.

heresie-dabord 4y ago
> what started out with altruistic motives, [...] is being derailed by opportunists. See: all human history. The essential trust anchor will always be transparency that directly affects a person in society. Anonymous money and anonymous power will be exploited.
readthenotes1 4y ago
Most of the rules of civilization are centered around preventing the 20% predators from devouring the 80% normal people.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  Most? That's an understatement. The rules that aren't are so few they may as well be rounding errors lost in noise.
- lowbloodsugar 4y ago
- nathias 4y ago
  most are about 10% of predators trying to devour the other 10% of predators while preventing being devoured by the 80% of normal people
- Gasp0de 4y ago
  And here I sit, thinking those rules were so that the 1% could take all the value the 99% produced.
  - readthenotes1 4y ago
    Heh. The 1% are mostly the very successful predators and their heirs. They buy/make a lot of rules, but there's still (currently) a ton more to constrain predation. (The more money you have, of course, the easier it is to game a more complex system...)
  - baq 4y ago
    Nuclear weapons made this a bigger issue since it closes the option of last resort, which is war. See North Korea…
    - landemva 4y ago
      Not sure what you mean. After what was done to Libya after they gave up nukes, North Korea learned it can't disarm without subsequently being invaded and destroyed.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  There's a line describing this in a failed US version of the cop drama Prime Suspect... I forget the exact wording but it's some grizzled cop talking about how their job is to protect the herd from the carnivorous sheep in it.
  - kevinmchugh 4y ago
    https://slate.com/culture/2015/01/american-snipers-wolves-sheep-and-sheepdogs-speech-has-a-surprising-history-with-conservatives-and-the-right-wing.html https://slate.com/culture/2015/01/american-snipers-wolves-sh...
n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
> It’s unfortunate that what started out with altruistic motives Are you actually buying into SBF’s pathetic ideologies? Or are you more referring to Satoshi’s white paper when you refer to “altruistic motives”. I can’t understand how anyone would take SBF seriously. He’s a smug charlatan who converted funny money to real money so that he could dump it into politics for his own aims, all while calling his actions “altruism”. Biggest false virtue signaler of all time.
- zeven7 4y ago
  Parent mentions decentralized anonymous asset exchange being the goal and 51% attacks being the biggest concern. That tells me he's talking about Satoshi. Those topics don't apply to SBF.
- tromp 4y ago
  > Or are you more referring to Satoshi’s white paper when you refer to “altruistic motives”. There's little altruistic about an emission that allocates half of all supply (first four years) going to early miners including Satoshi himself, and leaves only crumbs for later generations.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - rafale 4y ago
    Satoshi picked that model probably because it's easy to divide by 2 (x >> 2). He didn't want to prematurely optimize or overthink anything because it was a simple experiment and nobody could have predicted that Bitcoin will become the mammoth it is now.
    - mackman 4y ago
      Shifting by two is dividing by four. Not so easy, after all!
  - mdolon 4y ago
    This was my biggest “a-ha” realization around crypto, that the distribution model is utterly and irreparably broken for the most popular currencies. Whenever I bring this up with BTC/crypto maximalists their counterpoint is that fiat is also unevenly distributed and that it’s not a novel problem. The disconnect is truly puzzling.
CPLX 4y ago
In times like this I often find comfort in the expression "The Purpose of a System is What It Does" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  Doesn't this make all forms of bureaucracy (and hence, civilization) parasitic ? (Or are you just supposed to regularly "drain the swamp" ?)
  - CPLX 4y ago
    No. Seems like a non sequitur to me.
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      = "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy." from (supposedly) Oscar Wilde + Survival of the fittest to survive, from Charles Darwin ? (This is a serious question, I have been pondering it for years now...)

heresie-dabord 4y ago

> what started out with altruistic motives, [...] is being derailed by opportunists. See: all human history. The essential trust anchor will always be transparency that directly affects a person in society. Anonymous money and anonymous power will be exploited.

readthenotes1 4y ago

Most of the rules of civilization are centered around preventing the 20% predators from devouring the 80% normal people.

lelanthran 4y ago
Most? That's an understatement. The rules that aren't are so few they may as well be rounding errors lost in noise.
lowbloodsugar 4y ago
nathias 4y ago
most are about 10% of predators trying to devour the other 10% of predators while preventing being devoured by the 80% of normal people
Gasp0de 4y ago
And here I sit, thinking those rules were so that the 1% could take all the value the 99% produced.
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  Heh. The 1% are mostly the very successful predators and their heirs. They buy/make a lot of rules, but there's still (currently) a ton more to constrain predation. (The more money you have, of course, the easier it is to game a more complex system...)
- baq 4y ago
  Nuclear weapons made this a bigger issue since it closes the option of last resort, which is war. See North Korea…
  - landemva 4y ago
    Not sure what you mean. After what was done to Libya after they gave up nukes, North Korea learned it can't disarm without subsequently being invaded and destroyed.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
There's a line describing this in a failed US version of the cop drama Prime Suspect... I forget the exact wording but it's some grizzled cop talking about how their job is to protect the herd from the carnivorous sheep in it.
- kevinmchugh 4y ago
  https://slate.com/culture/2015/01/american-snipers-wolves-sheep-and-sheepdogs-speech-has-a-surprising-history-with-conservatives-and-the-right-wing.html https://slate.com/culture/2015/01/american-snipers-wolves-sh...

n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago

> It’s unfortunate that what started out with altruistic motives Are you actually buying into SBF’s pathetic ideologies? Or are you more referring to Satoshi’s white paper when you refer to “altruistic motives”. I can’t understand how anyone would take SBF seriously. He’s a smug charlatan who converted funny money to real money so that he could dump it into politics for his own aims, all while calling his actions “altruism”. Biggest false virtue signaler of all time.

zeven7 4y ago
Parent mentions decentralized anonymous asset exchange being the goal and 51% attacks being the biggest concern. That tells me he's talking about Satoshi. Those topics don't apply to SBF.
tromp 4y ago
> Or are you more referring to Satoshi’s white paper when you refer to “altruistic motives”. There's little altruistic about an emission that allocates half of all supply (first four years) going to early miners including Satoshi himself, and leaves only crumbs for later generations.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rafale 4y ago
  Satoshi picked that model probably because it's easy to divide by 2 (x >> 2). He didn't want to prematurely optimize or overthink anything because it was a simple experiment and nobody could have predicted that Bitcoin will become the mammoth it is now.
  - mackman 4y ago
    Shifting by two is dividing by four. Not so easy, after all!
- mdolon 4y ago
  This was my biggest “a-ha” realization around crypto, that the distribution model is utterly and irreparably broken for the most popular currencies. Whenever I bring this up with BTC/crypto maximalists their counterpoint is that fiat is also unevenly distributed and that it’s not a novel problem. The disconnect is truly puzzling.

CPLX 4y ago

In times like this I often find comfort in the expression "The Purpose of a System is What It Does" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

BlueTemplar 4y ago
Doesn't this make all forms of bureaucracy (and hence, civilization) parasitic ? (Or are you just supposed to regularly "drain the swamp" ?)
- CPLX 4y ago
  No. Seems like a non sequitur to me.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    = "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy." from (supposedly) Oscar Wilde + Survival of the fittest to survive, from Charles Darwin ? (This is a serious question, I have been pondering it for years now...)