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> "[...] The company cited environmental concerns for removing chargers with every purchase of the device and claimed that the decision will save 861,000 tons o

by hezag 4y ago

> "[...] The company cited environmental concerns for removing chargers with every purchase of the device and claimed that the decision will save 861,000 tons of copper, zinc and tin. The Brazilian Ministry of Justice remained unmoved by that reasoning, telling Apple that it could help the environment in other ways, such as giving its devices USB-C support." Fair enough.

cruano 4y ago
Someone should tell him that NOT firing the heads of the environmental agencies [1] of his country could make way more impact than iPhones having USB C https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-agencies-clears-way-for-unchecked-deforestation/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-...
- soneca 4y ago
  Well, he is a judge, he can’t tell the president how to do his job. It doesn’t seem a good excuse to interfere in his judgement either way too.
kramerger 4y ago
Yeah, that's hard to argue with assuming the fine does not include Apple devices that already use USB-C.
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  Presumably switching to a different cable would generate a one-off 'landfill event' as people throw out their old cables and buy new ones? Not saying Apple shouldn't make the move switch (and it's seemed likely for a while that it'll happen next year)
datadata 4y ago
That seems high a really high amount of claimed saved metals. 2.2 billion iPhones have been sold ever globally, that is nearly one pound of metal per phone. I think these chargers weigh around 5oz, and that is not entirely metal. But here we are only talking about Brazil. Maybe if they project 1000 of years of future sales the figure would make sense? It is also unreasonable to assume every charger is wasted. Some would be used or recycled.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Yea I guess clarification here would be good but the final product probably takes more metal to make than what is in it to start with. I don't buy the judge's argument about USB-C because the cable that comes with the phone has USB-C on the end that goes to a charging block so there aren't really any compatibility issues. Unless of course that judge was suggesting that Apple shouldn't include a power cable as well using a similar argument for not including the charging block being that "there are plenty around".
  - datadata 4y ago
    I would not assume wasted metal in manufacturing. These metals are all readily recyclable-- Especially at such a large scale in manufacturing and for a company that claims to want to reduce environmental impact.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      So if that's the case we can take Apple's numbers at face value then.
  - zekrioca 4y ago
    USB-C chargers are not common in Brazil. It has only been more common from last few years only. This lawsuit predates that.
masklinn 4y ago
Is it? Most if not all phone chargers have detachable cables these days, so shouldn't Apple only need to bundle (or provide with any purchase) an A->Lightning or C->lightning cable?
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  And they do exactly that right now (include a C->Lightning cable).
- pwinnski 4y ago
  They supply a USB-C->Lightning cable, but nothing into which to plug the USB-C end of things.
dont__panic 4y ago
19 million dollars sounds like a lot of money to me, but it's minuscule to a company the size of Apple. 861,000 tons of copper, zinc, and tin sounds like a lot of metal to me. Is it minuscule at Apple's manufacturing scale?
- Finnucane 4y ago
  For comparison, annual production of copper in Brazil is ~~250,000 tons. So it's Brazil's economic interest that that copper gets mined and used.
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    > annual production of copper in Brazil is ~~250,000 tons AKA, very small. > So it's Brazil's economic interest that that copper gets mined and used. No country has an interest on making cooper more expensive.
deelowe 4y ago
All new iphones already come with a usb-c to lightening cable...
- stemlord 4y ago
  They mean usb c port in the phone itself, so consumers could use virtually any usb-c cable to charge relatively safely rather than overpriced proprietary apple lightning cables or bootlegs
ratww 4y ago
Funnyly enough Apple's Brazilian PR team completely fumbled their response to the Ministry of Justice: > Existem bilhões de adaptadores de energia USB-A já em uso em todo o mundo que nossos clientes podem usar para carregar e conectar seus dispositivos. [1] > Translation: There are billions of USB-A power adapters already in use around the world that our customers can use to charge and connect their devices Those "billions of USB-A adapters" however won't work with the cable provided in newer iPhones, which is lightning and USB-C. [1] https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministerio-da-justica-determina-suspensao-de-venda-de-iphone-sem-carregador-e-aplica-multa-de-r-12-milhoes-a-apple.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministeri...

by hezag 4y ago

cruano 4y ago

Someone should tell him that NOT firing the heads of the environmental agencies [1] of his country could make way more impact than iPhones having USB C https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-agencies-clears-way-for-unchecked-deforestation/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-...

soneca 4y ago
Well, he is a judge, he can’t tell the president how to do his job. It doesn’t seem a good excuse to interfere in his judgement either way too.

kramerger 4y ago

Yeah, that's hard to argue with assuming the fine does not include Apple devices that already use USB-C.

madeofpalk 4y ago
Presumably switching to a different cable would generate a one-off 'landfill event' as people throw out their old cables and buy new ones? Not saying Apple shouldn't make the move switch (and it's seemed likely for a while that it'll happen next year)

datadata 4y ago

That seems high a really high amount of claimed saved metals. 2.2 billion iPhones have been sold ever globally, that is nearly one pound of metal per phone. I think these chargers weigh around 5oz, and that is not entirely metal. But here we are only talking about Brazil. Maybe if they project 1000 of years of future sales the figure would make sense? It is also unreasonable to assume every charger is wasted. Some would be used or recycled.

ericmay 4y ago
Yea I guess clarification here would be good but the final product probably takes more metal to make than what is in it to start with. I don't buy the judge's argument about USB-C because the cable that comes with the phone has USB-C on the end that goes to a charging block so there aren't really any compatibility issues. Unless of course that judge was suggesting that Apple shouldn't include a power cable as well using a similar argument for not including the charging block being that "there are plenty around".
- datadata 4y ago
  I would not assume wasted metal in manufacturing. These metals are all readily recyclable-- Especially at such a large scale in manufacturing and for a company that claims to want to reduce environmental impact.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    So if that's the case we can take Apple's numbers at face value then.
- zekrioca 4y ago
  USB-C chargers are not common in Brazil. It has only been more common from last few years only. This lawsuit predates that.

masklinn 4y ago

Is it? Most if not all phone chargers have detachable cables these days, so shouldn't Apple only need to bundle (or provide with any purchase) an A->Lightning or C->lightning cable?

rootusrootus 4y ago
And they do exactly that right now (include a C->Lightning cable).
pwinnski 4y ago
They supply a USB-C->Lightning cable, but nothing into which to plug the USB-C end of things.

dont__panic 4y ago

19 million dollars sounds like a lot of money to me, but it's minuscule to a company the size of Apple. 861,000 tons of copper, zinc, and tin sounds like a lot of metal to me. Is it minuscule at Apple's manufacturing scale?

Finnucane 4y ago
For comparison, annual production of copper in Brazil is ~~250,000 tons. So it's Brazil's economic interest that that copper gets mined and used.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  > annual production of copper in Brazil is ~~250,000 tons AKA, very small. > So it's Brazil's economic interest that that copper gets mined and used. No country has an interest on making cooper more expensive.

deelowe 4y ago

All new iphones already come with a usb-c to lightening cable...

stemlord 4y ago
They mean usb c port in the phone itself, so consumers could use virtually any usb-c cable to charge relatively safely rather than overpriced proprietary apple lightning cables or bootlegs

ratww 4y ago

Funnyly enough Apple's Brazilian PR team completely fumbled their response to the Ministry of Justice: > Existem bilhões de adaptadores de energia USB-A já em uso em todo o mundo que nossos clientes podem usar para carregar e conectar seus dispositivos. [1] > Translation: There are billions of USB-A power adapters already in use around the world that our customers can use to charge and connect their devices Those "billions of USB-A adapters" however won't work with the cable provided in newer iPhones, which is lightning and USB-C. [1] https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministerio-da-justica-determina-suspensao-de-venda-de-iphone-sem-carregador-e-aplica-multa-de-r-12-milhoes-a-apple.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministeri...