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Except they have. A Lufthansa spokesperson has clarified the new rules for the German news site watson: https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/87993

Except they have. A Lufthansa spokesperson has clarified the new rules for the German news site watson: https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-airtags-im-flugzeug-koffer-erlaubt-oder-verboten-lufthansa-aeussert-sich https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-... It rougly translate to: The device itself is not banned, but has to be shut off during flight. In practice this would mean that you would have to remove the battery from the airtag, since there is no powerswitch. But I will admit that this seems odd and I think it won't be the last time we've heard about it.

nixcraft 4y ago
From Lufthansa Twitter account: "yes this is correct. AirTags are banned in Lufthansa flights." https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578869457140580353 https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578869457140580353
- doc 4y ago
  Well that didn't last long, I saw the tweet a few minutes ago but now it's been deleted. PR in action?
  - smcl 4y ago
    Chaos
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mikeiz404 4y ago
  An archived version of the tweet is available here: https://web.archive.org/web/20221009003642/https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578869457140580353 https://web.archive.org/web/20221009003642/https://twitter.c... The tweet was deleted on twitter.
dheera 4y ago
And this is why Airtags shouldn't have speakers.
- JadeNB 4y ago
  How are speakers related to the ban, which tsimionescu suggests (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33135627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33135627) is just related to the Li battery problem?
  - dheera 4y ago
    If you don't have speakers you can still have the airtags and they wouldn't be able to tell if they are on or off. In their default state, they make annoying sounds every time the bag is moved, so they would be able to tell.
tsimionescu 4y ago
As far as I understand there is nothing new. Lithium batteries have always been allowed in checked luggage only if they are inside a completely powered off and reasonably protected device, to avoid the risk of fires. This risk doesn't really apply to such small batteries, but the rules are there regardless of the size of the battery.
- Izikiel43 4y ago
  Is the problem with batteries or lithium batteries? AirTags have non lithium batteries
  - pacificmint 4y ago
    AirTags use CR2032 batteries which are, in fact, lithium batteries. They are lithium primary cells though, not lithium ion cells, which are usually what is banned.
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      There is no distinction between the two in terms of regulations (all the ones I've seen are explicitly calling both lithium ion and lithium metal batteries).
  - fortran77 4y ago
    Stop spreading misinformation: >[T]he CR2032 battery is a Lithium-manganese dioxide battery (LiMn02). It is composed of a Mn02 cathode and a lithium anode. The device is specified for a 225 milliamp hours (mAh) and typically operates over a temperature range of –20 ºC to +70 ºC. You will find some alkaline versions available from some vendors, but it's not the norm. Now there may be a chance that Lufthansa didn't mean to include all types of lithium cells or batteries, but the vague wording doesn't seem to suggest that.
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      Lithium batteries of any kind have the same regulations in aviation. Here[0] is a link from the US FAA, but you'll find similar at ICAO or any other civil aviation authorities. [0] https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/lithium-batteries-baggage https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/lithium-batteries-baggage
rhacker 4y ago
So they banned your cell phone too? Last I recall you can take those on a plane powered off too.
- mfkp 4y ago
  Lithium batteries with you in the cabin have different rules than lithium batteries inside checked luggage. Also cell phones don't need to be powered off while inside the cabin.
  - rockemsockem 4y ago
    Air tags don't use lithium batteries. They use the big, flat, circular batteries that you have to replace.
    - mfkp 4y ago
      Airtags use a CR2032 lithium battery: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211670 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211670 The FAA specifies both lithium ion and lithium metal batteries need to be in carry-on bags only, not checked: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=7 https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=7
      - nonethewiser 4y ago
        So they dont let you check watches?
- bobviolier 4y ago
  It's about checked-in luggage, not what you take with you in the cabin.
robbiet480 4y ago
That article came out 5 days before the tweet from Ethan Klapper (Senior Aviation Reporter at The Points Guy) [1] referenced in the source article. Lufthansa's latest statement is they are not banned [2]. [1]: https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578453321546801158 https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578453321546801158 [2]: https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578571226934611968 https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578571226934611968
- judge2020 4y ago
  And? That says nothing about whether or not the battery must be removed from the device, which is important due to how much of a hassle that would be.
  - NavinF 4y ago
    It's possible they know that the ICAO regulations on electronics are really silly, but they're too lazy to challenge it directly. It's easier to just dodge the question and let customers do whatever they want. 99% of customers will not research this question and I expect all airlines to continue ignoring those regulations.
    - extr 4y ago
      Yeah, obviously the situation here is that by the letter of the law, you can't have electronics/batteries in the cargo hold. But it's not like they're starting up an Airtags Gestapo to search every bag and throw people in jail. Don't ask don't tell, the more of a big deal people make about this policy the closer it gets to actually being a problem in practice.
Manuel_D 4y ago
Would it be okay to put it in a metal box forming a faraday cage? I could seriously see a demand for such a product if they follow through on this ban.
- fzzzy 4y ago
  What would be the point of that? It wouldn't work any more.
- brewdad 4y ago
  What would be the point of putting an AirTag in your luggage if you prevent it from communicating with the outside world? Toss the Tag in your carry-on if you want it at your destination.
  - amelius 4y ago
    The box could open itself after landing.
    - koolba 4y ago
      A timer attached to a mechanical device in your luggage better damn well be detected by those X-ray machine.
m-p-3 4y ago
Or grant the owner the ability to temporarily stop an AirTag from broadcasting its signal for a specified amount of time. Do it right before your luggage is checked in up until the estimated time of arrival.
- layer8 4y ago
  The problem is not (only?) the broadcasting. The problem is the lithium battery used in a non-switched-off device.
  - m-p-3 4y ago
    Has a CR2032 ever been the cause of an actual fire?
    - layer8 4y ago
      Maybe not (who knows), but the relevant aircraft transport regulations apply to all types of lithium-based batteries.
      - nonethewiser 4y ago
        Not really. 2032's power most watches. There are far more watches than air tags. Why didn't they ban them?
        layer8 4y ago
        They (Lufthansa) didn’t ban AirTags. When asked about whether AirTags are allowed in checked luggage, they cited the pertinent ICAO regulations. They might do the same when asked about powered-on watches with lithium batteries in checked luggage.
  - idontpost 4y ago
ohbtvz 4y ago
I don't get your comment. You say they banned them, then immediately explain that they're not banned, you just have to turn them off - just like every single electronic device in checked in luggage. Can you elaborate on this contradiction?
monksy 4y ago
It's only an odd statement because their employees created this shit storm and the organization is trying save face with the employees and correct the statement. Don't expect for the service side of LH to turn their back on rejecting baggage because it has an airtag.
- Telemakhos 4y ago
  Yeah, this article generated a lot of technical discussion about the chemical composition of batteries and the technicalities of RF and IATA regs, because this is a site for the technically minded—but the real story here is about corporate communication.
layer8 4y ago
There are no new rules. Lufthansa is merely citing the ICAO regulations that have been in effect since 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128614

nixcraft 4y ago

From Lufthansa Twitter account: "yes this is correct. AirTags are banned in Lufthansa flights." https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578869457140580353 https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578869457140580353

doc 4y ago
Well that didn't last long, I saw the tweet a few minutes ago but now it's been deleted. PR in action?
- smcl 4y ago
  Chaos
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mikeiz404 4y ago
An archived version of the tweet is available here: https://web.archive.org/web/20221009003642/https://twitter.com/lufthansa/status/1578869457140580353 https://web.archive.org/web/20221009003642/https://twitter.c... The tweet was deleted on twitter.

dheera 4y ago

And this is why Airtags shouldn't have speakers.

JadeNB 4y ago
How are speakers related to the ban, which tsimionescu suggests (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33135627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33135627) is just related to the Li battery problem?
- dheera 4y ago
  If you don't have speakers you can still have the airtags and they wouldn't be able to tell if they are on or off. In their default state, they make annoying sounds every time the bag is moved, so they would be able to tell.

tsimionescu 4y ago

As far as I understand there is nothing new. Lithium batteries have always been allowed in checked luggage only if they are inside a completely powered off and reasonably protected device, to avoid the risk of fires. This risk doesn't really apply to such small batteries, but the rules are there regardless of the size of the battery.

Izikiel43 4y ago
Is the problem with batteries or lithium batteries? AirTags have non lithium batteries
- pacificmint 4y ago
  AirTags use CR2032 batteries which are, in fact, lithium batteries. They are lithium primary cells though, not lithium ion cells, which are usually what is banned.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    There is no distinction between the two in terms of regulations (all the ones I've seen are explicitly calling both lithium ion and lithium metal batteries).
- fortran77 4y ago
  Stop spreading misinformation: >[T]he CR2032 battery is a Lithium-manganese dioxide battery (LiMn02). It is composed of a Mn02 cathode and a lithium anode. The device is specified for a 225 milliamp hours (mAh) and typically operates over a temperature range of –20 ºC to +70 ºC. You will find some alkaline versions available from some vendors, but it's not the norm. Now there may be a chance that Lufthansa didn't mean to include all types of lithium cells or batteries, but the vague wording doesn't seem to suggest that.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    Lithium batteries of any kind have the same regulations in aviation. Here[0] is a link from the US FAA, but you'll find similar at ICAO or any other civil aviation authorities. [0] https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/lithium-batteries-baggage https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/lithium-batteries-baggage

rhacker 4y ago

So they banned your cell phone too? Last I recall you can take those on a plane powered off too.

mfkp 4y ago
Lithium batteries with you in the cabin have different rules than lithium batteries inside checked luggage. Also cell phones don't need to be powered off while inside the cabin.
- rockemsockem 4y ago
  Air tags don't use lithium batteries. They use the big, flat, circular batteries that you have to replace.
  - mfkp 4y ago
    Airtags use a CR2032 lithium battery: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211670 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211670 The FAA specifies both lithium ion and lithium metal batteries need to be in carry-on bags only, not checked: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=7 https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=7
    - nonethewiser 4y ago
      So they dont let you check watches?
bobviolier 4y ago
It's about checked-in luggage, not what you take with you in the cabin.

robbiet480 4y ago

That article came out 5 days before the tweet from Ethan Klapper (Senior Aviation Reporter at The Points Guy) [1] referenced in the source article. Lufthansa's latest statement is they are not banned [2]. [1]: https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578453321546801158 https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578453321546801158 [2]: https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578571226934611968 https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1578571226934611968

judge2020 4y ago
And? That says nothing about whether or not the battery must be removed from the device, which is important due to how much of a hassle that would be.
- NavinF 4y ago
  It's possible they know that the ICAO regulations on electronics are really silly, but they're too lazy to challenge it directly. It's easier to just dodge the question and let customers do whatever they want. 99% of customers will not research this question and I expect all airlines to continue ignoring those regulations.
  - extr 4y ago
    Yeah, obviously the situation here is that by the letter of the law, you can't have electronics/batteries in the cargo hold. But it's not like they're starting up an Airtags Gestapo to search every bag and throw people in jail. Don't ask don't tell, the more of a big deal people make about this policy the closer it gets to actually being a problem in practice.

Manuel_D 4y ago

Would it be okay to put it in a metal box forming a faraday cage? I could seriously see a demand for such a product if they follow through on this ban.

fzzzy 4y ago
What would be the point of that? It wouldn't work any more.
brewdad 4y ago
What would be the point of putting an AirTag in your luggage if you prevent it from communicating with the outside world? Toss the Tag in your carry-on if you want it at your destination.
- amelius 4y ago
  The box could open itself after landing.
  - koolba 4y ago
    A timer attached to a mechanical device in your luggage better damn well be detected by those X-ray machine.

m-p-3 4y ago

Or grant the owner the ability to temporarily stop an AirTag from broadcasting its signal for a specified amount of time. Do it right before your luggage is checked in up until the estimated time of arrival.

layer8 4y ago
The problem is not (only?) the broadcasting. The problem is the lithium battery used in a non-switched-off device.
- m-p-3 4y ago
  Has a CR2032 ever been the cause of an actual fire?
  - layer8 4y ago
    Maybe not (who knows), but the relevant aircraft transport regulations apply to all types of lithium-based batteries.
    - nonethewiser 4y ago
      Not really. 2032's power most watches. There are far more watches than air tags. Why didn't they ban them?
      - layer8 4y ago
        They (Lufthansa) didn’t ban AirTags. When asked about whether AirTags are allowed in checked luggage, they cited the pertinent ICAO regulations. They might do the same when asked about powered-on watches with lithium batteries in checked luggage.
- idontpost 4y ago

ohbtvz 4y ago

I don't get your comment. You say they banned them, then immediately explain that they're not banned, you just have to turn them off - just like every single electronic device in checked in luggage. Can you elaborate on this contradiction?

monksy 4y ago

It's only an odd statement because their employees created this shit storm and the organization is trying save face with the employees and correct the statement. Don't expect for the service side of LH to turn their back on rejecting baggage because it has an airtag.

Telemakhos 4y ago
Yeah, this article generated a lot of technical discussion about the chemical composition of batteries and the technicalities of RF and IATA regs, because this is a site for the technically minded—but the real story here is about corporate communication.

layer8 4y ago

There are no new rules. Lufthansa is merely citing the ICAO regulations that have been in effect since 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128614