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Build your fanbase using the K-pop method
- carabiner 4y agoReal reason for K-pop success: hire the best Swedish pop songwriters in the world and give them carte blanche to create any crazy songs they want. Same with Korean car companies and hiring the best German and Italian designers. Start with money, import talent, then cut them loose.
- thaumasiotes 4y agoYou know, the best Swedish pop songwriters in the world could probably do a really good job on the musical accompaniment to a K-pop song, but they're likely to be among the worst possible people to write the song. Any three-year-old Korean kid would be a better choice.
- carabiner 4y agoNope, they're doing just fine writing for BTS etc.: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/arts/music/sweden-kpop-bts-red-velvet.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/arts/music/sweden-kpop-bt...
- thaumasiotes 4y agoBut they aren't. The headline of that very article (ok, the subhed) notes that they aren't capable of writing Korean songs and don't try. This is repeated in the text: > Carlebecker writes in English, and then Korean songwriters add new lyrics to her melodies
- consumer451 4y ago> Korean songs I believe the correct term would be lyrics, not songs. A song can have its lyrics translated/altered into an entirely different language and still carry the same weight. Many pop songwriters would argue that the lyrics are one of the least important components. Non-anglophone countries are full of such songs based on English language originals. Though this musical localization seems have be have been more popular in the past, for multiple reasons.
- WalterBright 4y ago> Many pop songwriters would argue that the lyrics are one of the least important components A B C It's as easy as 1 2 3 Doe Rae Me You and me or: 1 2 3 4 I am going to keep on counting 5 6 7 8 Yep.
- WalterBright 4y agoP.S. both of those lyrics are from hit songs. The first from the Jackson 5, the second Gloria Estefan.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago> A song can have its lyrics translated/altered into an entirely different language and still carry the same weight. This is not true. Try listening to "the same" song in two different languages that you can speak, one of which being the language the song was written in. One of two things will be true: (a) It is obvious which songs was originally written in that language and which is a translation. (b) It is not obvious that the two songs are the same. > I believe the correct term would be lyrics, not songs. Nope. The lyrics are the song. Music with nothing but lyrics sung to a melody is still a song. Music without lyrics is not a song.
- ambicapter 4y agoCounter example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLzjYXzkvWU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLzjYXzkvWU vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PnOG67flRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PnOG67flRA
- thaumasiotes 4y agoHow is this supposed to be a counterexample? I'll have to lean on Google Translate for the French, but here are the first two verses of the English song: You may have the money But you've got to go It's sensible (it's sensible) And those endless seasons That go on and on Incredible But I'd sooner get out And remember where we went last year You said everything about it moved on your career If you want to go I'll take you back one day Here are the first two verses of the French song: It's a corner [hidden spot?] lost on the Atlantic It's exotic (it's exotic) A secret corner under the palms It's fantastic I could show you how to get there, it's very easy Close your eyes and let your eyelashes tangle Here we are already Welcome to the bay These songs are set to the same music, but they are otherwise unrelated to each other. This is like saying that Weird Al Yankovic translated Gangsta's Paradise into English.
- andrekandre 4y agowow, i never heard that! any interesting articles/videos about that?
- carabiner 4y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/arts/music/sweden-kpop-bts-red-velvet.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/arts/music/sweden-kpop-bt...
- andrekandre 4y agothanks!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- poisonarena 4y agoThis is absolutely true and I wish more people knew.. They even imported several New Jack Swing producers (the type of HipHop/RNB 90s dance style that was popular in the 90s.. Think Bobby Brown/Keith Sweat/GUY).. Korea is the ONLY nation on earth still making NJS, and where NJS is still relatively popular, pleading out into several kpop tracks. The producer who created that, Teddy Riley, and several others have been going there and producing KPOP for decades now..
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mattigames 4y agoYou missed use the most mentally ill teenagers you can find to work 24/7 into creating tweets with your hashtag so it reaches top 10 worldwide or at least in a few countries, K-pop bands do that, a lot: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-stans-who-post-so-much-twitter-thinks-theyre-bots-and-shuts-them-down https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-stans-who-post-so-mu...
- astrange 4y agoYou need to respect the Kpop teens because they’re the only young people on social media who admit to liking capitalism.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- boredpudding 4y agoNo need to call them mentally ill. It's fun to create a large amount of attention to the thing you're a fan of. I'm from a smaller country and around 2010-2012 smaller bands did this as well. It was hilariously easy to create a 'trending topic' in a country back then, so it happened quite a lot. It's just fun to create attention for the thing you love. The same way people on Hacker News like to share certain (open source) projects and upvote it.
- mattigames 4y agoThey are not doing it because they came out with the idea to help their little town band, they were told to do it by the giant corporations behind those bands, BTS and BLACKPINK being perhaps the two most insidious in this regard, it's literally an unpaid job and those companies aim for the teenage girls and boys who who are the most unhealthily obsessed with one or more members of the band to do it, by telling these thousands of impressionable teens that the way to show that love is to become the equivalent of human spam bots.
- baybal2 4y ago
- metadat 4y agohttps://web.archive.org/web/20221002215004/https://lulu.substack.com/p/fandom https://web.archive.org/web/20221002215004/https://lulu.subs... https://archive.ph/dEKil https://archive.ph/dEKil (For those not wishing to be smacked in the face with a wet fish pop-over registration modal dialog upon scrolling down the page; fku substk)
- xwowsersx 4y agoI regularly use archive.org to avoid the distorting and invasive pop-ups that regularly litter web pages these days, but I feel this is a bit of an overreaction in this case. I suppose they could position the sign-up area at the top of the page (or even in the middle). But tbf, the point of Substack is for readers to stay in touch with their favorite writers and for writers to build a readership. Thus, prompting the reader to subscribe is highly relevant. In that way, though I dislike the intrusiveness of pop-overs, it doesn't seem grossly offensive to me in this case. Certainly not to the point of "fku substk".
- nicbou 4y agoIf you ignore the whole K-Pop thing, this is a good article with good advice.
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoQuestion about not getting involved with politics in your fandom: how does this apply to pop stars like Lizzo, Lady Gaga, Lil Nas X, Nicki Minaj? They all have huge, highly fervent fandoms too. And they're pretty darn political all the time.
- zmgsabst 4y agoQuestion: are those fandoms larger or smaller than without the politics? I don’t know that I’ve seen good numbers on that.
- PuppyTailWags 4y agoI don't know, is my confusion. It just strikes me as weird, rhetorically, to claim that avoiding politics is one of the key strategies to gain a fandom when equally fervent fandoms have been built on explicitly political pop stars. I don't understand how to put these two together.
- bee_rider 4y agoGenerally in the US it is assumed, I think, that if a public figure doesn't make an occasional comment about public events, then they are in favor of the status quo, which is itself a political statement. So, I'm not clear on what what a public figure "without politics" could look like. I mean Taylor Swift managed to dodge the idea of politics for years (it was an explicit strategy because of what happened to the Dixie Chicks), but eventually people started directly asking questions, and saying "I don't want to comment on this thing my fans feel strongly about" is pretty bad for business I guess.
- mikrl 4y agoI’ve liked Azealia Banks for ages even through her politically incorrect meltdowns and her music just keeps getting better. A zoomer I was at a party with recently said “yaaa she’s good but like sooo controversial” in a hushed and nervous way like we were in high school and about to go smoke a cigarette.
- 4y ago
- ziml77 4y agoIs any of this much different from pop boy bands of the 00's? You make generic, catchy songs that are hard to resist. Then have a group of four or five attractive teens perform the song. And then Highlight each individual so people form a parasocial relationship with the band members. The fanaticism follows quite easily from there.
- Timpy 4y agoAs I was reading the article I was thinking the same thing. This is just the most recently evolved version, now including things like social media and online communities. It was still an interesting analysis to read. I wonder how the numbers compare for the biggest boybands of 2002, 2012, and 2022.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoThe key with East Asian group bands is a revolving lineup of members so you always have a fresh product to sell to each years target demographic.
- googlryas 4y agoMenudo did it first!
- UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
- threeseed 4y agoThe biggest K-pop bands are Blackpink, BTS, Twice etc. All are well-established and have no revolving lineup.
- bobthepanda 4y agoKpop is a bit different. Kpop has “generations” in the sense that mandatory Korean military service for men puts an expiration date on them all being present, and they fade away in popularity if only some of the members are present. Also, the contracts are long, but idols don’t necessarily stay around if they think they can get a better deal elsewhere, or if they want to move onto another chapter of their life which idol employment doesn’t allow (like dating). It’s Blackpink, BTS, and Twice now. Before them, it was 2NE1, 2PM, Miss A/the Wonder Girls, SNSD, etc.
- oarsinsync 4y ago> But activism on unrelated issues, even important ones, puts up barriers for no good reason. It’s interesting framing. Some might view this as pure to your values, some might view this as lacking in values, but it certainly got my attention. Reducing this quote down, the claim is “activism on unrelated important issues has no value [to your business].”
- citizenkeen 4y agoAnd yet the post also suggests members of the company should talk as individuals, not as the company. Which is… a tough row to hoe.
- justin_oaks 4y agoIndeed. Even if those company members aren't outspoken on political matters, people will dig up their politics. Consider the case of Brendan Eich.
- 0cVlTeIATBs 4y agoIn k-pop we've seen even minor references to the Japanese emperor or Taiwan result in severe backlash. Mainland china also banned the genre for a year in response to THAAD. [0] https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/entertainment/article/3008531/japanese-k-pop-star-sana-slammed-comments-imperial-handover https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/entertainment/article/3008531... [1] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1902195/teen-pop-star-chou-tzu-yus-apology-waving-taiwan-flag https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/19... [2] https://www.vox.com/latest-news/2017/3/3/14795636/china-south-korea-pop-culture-kpop-attacks-thaad https://www.vox.com/latest-news/2017/3/3/14795636/china-sout...
- _8j50 4y agoNo doubt the post is correct but I wish "make good products and show them off" was there. Quality of product should in an ideal world be what attracte people who support a company. In tech at least, that seems to be why people support products, you hear about a myriad of products for any vertical but which one is good and cheap?
- uup 4y agoHow about build a product people love? There are so many reasons listed in the article, and there are so many counter examples where companies did the opposite and still built a rabid fan base. The only unifying thread is that people will deify products they love.
- moron4hire 4y agoI feel like K-pop is not actually as popular as every K-pop fan I've ever met wants us to believe it is.
- chiefalchemist 4y agoNot as bad as I expected to read. - Keep in mind these bands are disposable. They're typically tied to a generation, a slice in time, and then they fade away. Perhaps that's by design because sustaining such a high sugar diet isn't possible? - That said, ultimately it's about connecting with your audience. Marketing is typically about awareness and/or driving sales. But these bands go further and connect with their audience. They give the audience what they want *and then some* and do that on the appropriate platforms. - But easier said than done. There's a connection I have on LinkedIn. She's always posting - nearly always video - about her (SEO) agency. Dogs in the office, someone's birthday, etc. I don't remember a single time she's posted something of use to me. Maybe that would work if she was a K-Pop band? But for who I suspect her audience is, it often feels off target.
- cableshaft 4y ago> Keep in mind these bands are disposable. They're typically tied to a generation, a slice in time, and then they fade away. That applies to most media. There are some art/music/games/tv/movies that stand the test of time, but that's not the rule and you can't really create assuming you're going to last forever, even if you're hot for fifteen minutes. How many people are still doing Wordle right now? I bet it's less than 5-10% of how many people were doing it at its peak near the beginning of the year, and that was huge at the time, seemed like pretty much everyone on social media were doing it (and/or one of its variants). For music, how many people can keep creating hits for more than a generation? Pretty much just Weird Al and Madonna, isn't it?
- chiefalchemist 4y agoYes and no. Most content ends up being a fad. But that's not necessarily by design (and desire). NYT would love for Wordle to still be hot. On the other hand, BTS, to paraphrase the eternal philosopher Morrissey, was over before it ever began. In the context of the article's conversation, creating a sustainable connection with a product's fans is difficult. It's fun to relate it to K-Pop but - and to your point - there's more to it.
- keithalewis 4y agoOne of the original thinkers on this topic. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOpGXOrHc4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOpGXOrHc4
- yazzku 4y ago"Each fandom has a name (Blackpink fans are Blinks, BTS fans are ARMY, TXT fans are MOA, etc.)" And Slipknot fans are maggots. I know some of you motherfucking maggots are around here too.
- idiocrat 4y agoIt is easy to build fanbase. Be young and beautiful. Stop being old and ugly. If you are insist on your right to be old and ugly, then stop being poor and be rich instead.
- barbariangrunge 4y agoK-pop bands are really are great at building loyal followings, but this article doesn't feel to me like the right resource for learning how they manage it. Eg, it's mostly generic 'focus on personal stories,' 'lower barriers to entry,' and 'foster a good community' advice advocated everywhere you look in the blog-o-sphere (is that still an expression?) Does anybody have any other articles they would recommend on the topic? Eg, about the details that make these groups actually excel at this compared to say the average blogger?
- jojok 4y agoI think kpop artists spend more time building an emotional connection with their fans. In Korea kpop stars are on TV a lot, usually doing things like playing games together, sharing stories, hanging out at home, at work, at a cafe or restaurant. It makes you feel like you know them personally. With social media there are more people doing things like this, and those people have similarly devoted fans (e.g. the Kardashians). In the west artists still expect and want some degree is privacy, they want to make music but don't necessarily want to be a "professional famous person". My understanding is that for a kpop artist that's basically part of the contract.
- ergocoder 4y ago"Eliminate corporate jargon." kpop has the highest number of jargons: nugu, sasaeng, maknae, pak, lead vocal, main vocal, black ocean, relay dance, aegyo, fancam, girlcrush, visual, bias Guess what they mean.
- eslaught 4y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I believe this jargon applies to kpop as a whole, not to any specific kpop band. So when you're starting up a new kpop band, you don't need to educate your audience in all of this jargon. You just need to educate them on any terms specific to the new band (and I would guess the set of those starts in a limited way before it grows in any meaningful sense). I think part of what we're seeing is that kpop as a genre is highly popular. It's "easy" (not really, but relatively speaking) to start a new band because fans can migrate from other bands. That's as opposed to starting in a more obscure genre where you'd be truly climbing up hill to reach any fans at all, even if you did literally every single thing that the kpop bands do. As an aspiring author, I'm certainly very interested in this sort of audience acquisition, but it's not obvious to me what (if anything) can really be applied to my use case. The advice in the article makes intuitive sense, but it's also honestly very common advice, and I've talked to a lot of friends and colleagues who've done things like this and it's not that easy.
- Kiro 4y agoFor an equally crazy fandom see Minecraft stans.
- dncornholio 4y agoEveryone going to ignore the fact that these 'bands' are highly controlled. They can't have a normal social life. Forced plastic surgery, etc. I don't think it's very healthy to have so much fake social content from artists for both fan and artist.
- coldtea 4y ago>For a startup, it’s not enough to have followers. If you want people to evangelize for you, stand up for you, and stick with you long term, you need fanatics. When did people start advocating deleterious to society suggestions, openly and shamelessly? Not of the "I thought it was a good ideology" kind, which always existed, of the "everybody should recognize that this is bad", like here...
- frozencell 4y agoThe democratization of DALLE2 images in Substack is unbearable. (EDIT: they are ugly uncanny images). Side note and shower thought.
- lapinot 4y agotldr: be consensual to mainstream tastes, jump on every viral bandwagon you notice, encourage frenzieness and addictive behavior. Thanks but no thanks. Thus article is how to destroy any kind of cultural diversity 101. And create vast rigid borderline fanatic groups that upend any systemic stability and routinely create unpredictable cataclysmic events. I'm half-amused half-shocked that this article is so frank in explaining how this works, without a hint at any consequence.