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The road toll in the US is staggering given its wealth. The conversation to reduce it doesn’t obviously exist like it does in other places. The NHTSA figures s

The road toll in the US is staggering given its wealth. The conversation to reduce it doesn’t obviously exist like it does in other places. The NHTSA figures showed an increase per kilometre in 2021, where many developed nations are showing a year on year reduction. Any Americans want to posit a reason why?

aetherson 4y ago
People going faster due to less congestion due to the pandemic.
- eesmith 4y ago
  Don't know why you're down-voted when NHTSA agrees that's one of the factors. Quoting https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/56125 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/56125 : > During the first 9 months of 2020, driving patterns and behaviors in the United States changed significantly (Wagner et al., 2020; Office of Behavioral Safety Research, 2021). Of the drivers who remained on the roads, some engaged in riskier behavior, including speeding, failure to wear seat belts, and driving under the influence of alcohol or other drugs. Traffic data cited in those reports showed average speeds increased during the Q2 and Q3, and extreme speeds became more common. At https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/58456 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/58456 : > Analyses of speeding behavior (driving faster than the posted speed limits) since the start of the pandemic reveal other changes. Cambridge Mobile Telematics (2021) analysis of telematic data suggested that as trips taken decreased by 50%, their measure of speeding risk increased by 45%. Further, they reported an approximate one third increase in speeding above pre-pandemic levels from November 2020 through March 2021. Or from https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/03/30/as-roads-empty-to-covid-19-drivers-who-remain-are-speeding-up-heres-how-to-slow-them-down/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/03/30/as-roads-empty-to-cov... > “We do have fewer car crashes right now, because there are fewer cars,” said Jacque Knight, a St. Louis-based traffic planner. “But the crashes we do have are likely to be more severe because speed is the biggest determinant of serious injury and mortality — especially for pedestrians. Our hospitals can’t handle that right now.”
resoluteteeth 4y ago
The conventional answer is that vehicles are getting bigger/higher off the ground/heavier in the US. Some new pickup trucks are so big and have such a bad view of the road in front of them that you can't even see a normal sized car stopped in front out the windshield and they need to have a front camera. A lot of SUVs aren't quite there yet but they are getting ridiculously big/heavy and still high enough that it's hard to see children in front. The height means that the bumper is positioned in a much worse way and rather than rolling on the windshield you'll just die if you're hit. The weight also increases the risk to pedestrians in a collision. Also, some other countries are doing much more serious things to reduce pedestrian/cyclist deaths while the US is doing pretty much nothing.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The other side of the coin is that you're safer inside a bigger and heavier vehicle when you're inevitably in an accident. A big Ford F-350 is going to have a much better chance of successfully protecting its passengers than a Toyota Camry.
  - chillwaves 4y ago
    Based on what? I have never heard of this rule "Bigger = safer". Nothing "inevitable" about accidents.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      It's very simple physics: if your vehicle is much larger than the vehicle you crash into, you're going to have lower acceleration forces inside your vehicle and thus experience fewer injuries. Sucks to be the person in the other vehicle though. The end result is an arms race of vehicle sizes.
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      >Nothing "inevitable" about accidents. Car accidents are a question of when, not if. Sooner or later you're going to be in one. If you somehow get through life without ever being involved in one, you were a very lucky bastard.
zdragnar 4y ago
Driving culture is pretty bad here. Get out into very rural areas, and drinking and driving can be frighteningly common. Also, as is in the article, the punishment for speeding tends to be a slap on the wrist by way of a comparatively small fine. You'd need to be going at least 20 miles an hour over the speed limit before you're in real trouble. That said, the numbers are still small enough that the average person doesn't really care about it come election day- not in comparison to other issues. And that's if they even care about local elections at all- these are issues handled at the state level, which makes a very tiny percentage of the population who is even remotely interested in.
screye 4y ago
I'm not entirely sure if this is a US only problem, but Americans have a way about making logistical details of how they lead their life a fundamental part of their identity. Roads, cars, obesity, single family homes, HOA are IMO all symptoms of this. The bureaucrats are never trusted with even the most minute details by the populace or the politicians. This is a problem of the left and right. If statistics show that BRT will reduce traffic, but if the population thinks that 'removal of a lane' will slow road traffic, then no change will occur. From the location of a train-stop to an affordable income apartment, local politics poisons all efforts grinding all efforts to a complete halt. participation in local politics is good. Micromanaging governance using 2 minute snippets from a tiktok video as inspiration is not. The left ignores all literature around urban crime management, the science around obesity and effectiveness (or lack thereof) of good-intentions based educational interventions. The right ignores all literature around infrastructure regulation, transit, welfare or coercive religious interventions. The gridlock means that systems that are in a downwards spiral (urban crime, car accidents, obesity epidemic, drug epidemic, school costs, healthcare costs) continue spiralling. The most radical of either political side leverages this using promises of policies that can never be enacted, while any politician who might have been willing to strike compromises for slow movement towards real solutions is pushed out of their party. IMO, a center-left or center-right govt. with a Party Govt. (Pres, Senate, House) up & down the ballot with the ability to pass bills would be able to push for useful change, even if it is with policies that are diametrical. The grid-lock is an unstable equilibrium, where a move in any direction will probably make things a lot better than just staying still.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >The bureaucrats are never trusted with even the most minute details by the populace or the politicians. This is a problem of the left and right. This has to do with the founding principles of the United States. Remember, the US came about as a result of giving the finger to British governance (read: bureaucracy). All Americans can unanimously agree to hate on politicians and the government, specific exceptions notwithstanding.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
semireg 4y ago
I feel that road rage has increased even in rural areas. Being on a bicycle or on foot automatically makes you an “other” and the contempt on busy roads is palpable. The law states “cars must yield to pedestrians in crosswalk” (novel idea) but it seems many in cars look at me like “what are you going to do about me not stopping? nothing” which mirrors a certain political climate as well. There’s a sense of entitlement and power when you have your fellow man’s life in your hands - and many choose to aggressively step on the gas. As an aside, I’m raising a 5 and 2 year old a block away from a very busy 4 lane (2x2) street. A few years ago the state awarded our city a grant for a road diet (1x1+center turn). Everything was set to be changed and then our city council was replaced by car-loving candidates sponsored by local big-money. The grant was forfeited and the road remains oversized and dangerous. The upside is I get to teach my children how dangerous this road is, meaning they won’t have a complacency that otherwise could set in if the road was made safer. What a twisted logic … ugh!
coryrc 4y ago
Many factors: The Americas, as a whole, are a more violent place. Life is just not valued as much. American apartments suck in every way, particularly sound. Most people in cities go through a phase of apartment living and it sucks and as soon as they can afford they move into a house, but they require cars because even the houses are built poorly and only have a semblance of privacy with big spaces between them. So most people need cars, any costs added to cars are costs borne by most people, people don't like voting for things that cost them personally. We don't trust the government to execute social change, because both the right and left preach against it (cabrini green, for example).
- coryrc 4y ago
  Oh, fun fact: Washington state legislature tried to reduce the number of DUIs before you go to prison from 5 to 4, but they decided not to because it would cost too much money. We have to have some sort of collective trauma that should be worked out.
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    I was on the Jury for someone in California with a prior DUI that caused an accident (injuries but not deaths) while drunk, fled the scene and ditched the car. After a plea bargain, no jail time.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
Because we are generally extraordinarily stubborn.
Tiktaalik 4y ago
Other countries are literally reducing road space that is exclusively for car use and building protected bike lanes and pedestrian spaces where such road users cannot be killed by cars. The USA is likely not to the same degree. (Certainly not at the pace of Paris, which has changed remarkably) This is the simple, dull solution. Cars inevitably kill other road users because they’re fundamentally unsafe. Remove cars from having any possible interaction with other road users and deaths go down. It’s that simple.
jeffbee 4y ago
"Given its wealth" America is basically dirt poor. We have almost no public realm worth having. The only things we have that make us seem wealthy are things you can easily count, like bank accounts and big TVs and huge medical bills that make our GDP seem artificially high.
noenforcement 4y ago
[flagged]
jrockway 4y ago
> Any Americans want to posit a reason why? 2 things. 1) Covid / social distancing fucked up everyone's interpersonal skills. So if you're driving towards a pedestrian or cyclist, people are like "fuck it, they deserve to die if they're in my way." 2) It's currently the "style" to have pedestrian-killing bull bars on your truck. People think they look cool, but it just crushes the pedestrian you hit into a paste instead of pushing them up and over your hood. 1 is probably hard to fix. 2 should just be made illegal instantly. I get if you drive your pickup truck on a farm, or are regularly participating in high speed chases as a police officer, they might come in handy (?), but if you're driving around in the city commuting to your desk job, you don't need 'em. It just turns "we broke every bone in that poor pedestrian's body" into "he's dead, Jim". Absolutely no need for that; if we want to keep cars around, we need to design them to do minimal damage to the other road users they hit while their drivers are drunk. It might not look cool, but even better than looking cool is not murdering other people.
- Reason077 4y ago
  On the bright side, at least collision avoidance systems (AEB) in modern vehicles are getting better at detecting and avoiding pedestrians and cyclists.
  - TheCoelacanth 4y ago
    And yet still the pedestrian death toll is rising. Even technology that would seem miraculous 20 years ago isn't enough to slow down the carnage.
- gernb 4y ago
  This isn't just a car driver issue. 90% of the cyclists and 75% of the pedestrians are also like "fuck it!", I don't care that the light is red, I'm crossing now. Fuck anyone who has the right of way. They'll have to wait". Add in the pedestrians who don't even look up from their phones as they cross on the red. Probably drivers doing this too. I'm not making excuses for cars. They are obviously big and heavy and kill people. Rather I'm saying the attitude of "fuck you, I'm going" is ubiquitous, at least in some parts of the USA.
bagels 4y ago
Was it because there was exceptionally less driving in 2020?

aetherson 4y ago

People going faster due to less congestion due to the pandemic.

eesmith 4y ago
Don't know why you're down-voted when NHTSA agrees that's one of the factors. Quoting https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/56125 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/56125 : > During the first 9 months of 2020, driving patterns and behaviors in the United States changed significantly (Wagner et al., 2020; Office of Behavioral Safety Research, 2021). Of the drivers who remained on the roads, some engaged in riskier behavior, including speeding, failure to wear seat belts, and driving under the influence of alcohol or other drugs. Traffic data cited in those reports showed average speeds increased during the Q2 and Q3, and extreme speeds became more common. At https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/58456 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/58456 : > Analyses of speeding behavior (driving faster than the posted speed limits) since the start of the pandemic reveal other changes. Cambridge Mobile Telematics (2021) analysis of telematic data suggested that as trips taken decreased by 50%, their measure of speeding risk increased by 45%. Further, they reported an approximate one third increase in speeding above pre-pandemic levels from November 2020 through March 2021. Or from https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/03/30/as-roads-empty-to-covid-19-drivers-who-remain-are-speeding-up-heres-how-to-slow-them-down/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/03/30/as-roads-empty-to-cov... > “We do have fewer car crashes right now, because there are fewer cars,” said Jacque Knight, a St. Louis-based traffic planner. “But the crashes we do have are likely to be more severe because speed is the biggest determinant of serious injury and mortality — especially for pedestrians. Our hospitals can’t handle that right now.”

resoluteteeth 4y ago

The conventional answer is that vehicles are getting bigger/higher off the ground/heavier in the US. Some new pickup trucks are so big and have such a bad view of the road in front of them that you can't even see a normal sized car stopped in front out the windshield and they need to have a front camera. A lot of SUVs aren't quite there yet but they are getting ridiculously big/heavy and still high enough that it's hard to see children in front. The height means that the bumper is positioned in a much worse way and rather than rolling on the windshield you'll just die if you're hit. The weight also increases the risk to pedestrians in a collision. Also, some other countries are doing much more serious things to reduce pedestrian/cyclist deaths while the US is doing pretty much nothing.

Dalewyn 4y ago
The other side of the coin is that you're safer inside a bigger and heavier vehicle when you're inevitably in an accident. A big Ford F-350 is going to have a much better chance of successfully protecting its passengers than a Toyota Camry.
- chillwaves 4y ago
  Based on what? I have never heard of this rule "Bigger = safer". Nothing "inevitable" about accidents.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    It's very simple physics: if your vehicle is much larger than the vehicle you crash into, you're going to have lower acceleration forces inside your vehicle and thus experience fewer injuries. Sucks to be the person in the other vehicle though. The end result is an arms race of vehicle sizes.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >Nothing "inevitable" about accidents. Car accidents are a question of when, not if. Sooner or later you're going to be in one. If you somehow get through life without ever being involved in one, you were a very lucky bastard.

zdragnar 4y ago

Driving culture is pretty bad here. Get out into very rural areas, and drinking and driving can be frighteningly common. Also, as is in the article, the punishment for speeding tends to be a slap on the wrist by way of a comparatively small fine. You'd need to be going at least 20 miles an hour over the speed limit before you're in real trouble. That said, the numbers are still small enough that the average person doesn't really care about it come election day- not in comparison to other issues. And that's if they even care about local elections at all- these are issues handled at the state level, which makes a very tiny percentage of the population who is even remotely interested in.

screye 4y ago

I'm not entirely sure if this is a US only problem, but Americans have a way about making logistical details of how they lead their life a fundamental part of their identity. Roads, cars, obesity, single family homes, HOA are IMO all symptoms of this. The bureaucrats are never trusted with even the most minute details by the populace or the politicians. This is a problem of the left and right. If statistics show that BRT will reduce traffic, but if the population thinks that 'removal of a lane' will slow road traffic, then no change will occur. From the location of a train-stop to an affordable income apartment, local politics poisons all efforts grinding all efforts to a complete halt. participation in local politics is good. Micromanaging governance using 2 minute snippets from a tiktok video as inspiration is not. The left ignores all literature around urban crime management, the science around obesity and effectiveness (or lack thereof) of good-intentions based educational interventions. The right ignores all literature around infrastructure regulation, transit, welfare or coercive religious interventions. The gridlock means that systems that are in a downwards spiral (urban crime, car accidents, obesity epidemic, drug epidemic, school costs, healthcare costs) continue spiralling. The most radical of either political side leverages this using promises of policies that can never be enacted, while any politician who might have been willing to strike compromises for slow movement towards real solutions is pushed out of their party. IMO, a center-left or center-right govt. with a Party Govt. (Pres, Senate, House) up & down the ballot with the ability to pass bills would be able to push for useful change, even if it is with policies that are diametrical. The grid-lock is an unstable equilibrium, where a move in any direction will probably make things a lot better than just staying still.

Dalewyn 4y ago
>The bureaucrats are never trusted with even the most minute details by the populace or the politicians. This is a problem of the left and right. This has to do with the founding principles of the United States. Remember, the US came about as a result of giving the finger to British governance (read: bureaucracy). All Americans can unanimously agree to hate on politicians and the government, specific exceptions notwithstanding.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

semireg 4y ago

I feel that road rage has increased even in rural areas. Being on a bicycle or on foot automatically makes you an “other” and the contempt on busy roads is palpable. The law states “cars must yield to pedestrians in crosswalk” (novel idea) but it seems many in cars look at me like “what are you going to do about me not stopping? nothing” which mirrors a certain political climate as well. There’s a sense of entitlement and power when you have your fellow man’s life in your hands - and many choose to aggressively step on the gas. As an aside, I’m raising a 5 and 2 year old a block away from a very busy 4 lane (2x2) street. A few years ago the state awarded our city a grant for a road diet (1x1+center turn). Everything was set to be changed and then our city council was replaced by car-loving candidates sponsored by local big-money. The grant was forfeited and the road remains oversized and dangerous. The upside is I get to teach my children how dangerous this road is, meaning they won’t have a complacency that otherwise could set in if the road was made safer. What a twisted logic … ugh!

coryrc 4y ago

Many factors: The Americas, as a whole, are a more violent place. Life is just not valued as much. American apartments suck in every way, particularly sound. Most people in cities go through a phase of apartment living and it sucks and as soon as they can afford they move into a house, but they require cars because even the houses are built poorly and only have a semblance of privacy with big spaces between them. So most people need cars, any costs added to cars are costs borne by most people, people don't like voting for things that cost them personally. We don't trust the government to execute social change, because both the right and left preach against it (cabrini green, for example).

coryrc 4y ago
Oh, fun fact: Washington state legislature tried to reduce the number of DUIs before you go to prison from 5 to 4, but they decided not to because it would cost too much money. We have to have some sort of collective trauma that should be worked out.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  I was on the Jury for someone in California with a prior DUI that caused an accident (injuries but not deaths) while drunk, fled the scene and ditched the car. After a plea bargain, no jail time.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

Because we are generally extraordinarily stubborn.

Tiktaalik 4y ago

Other countries are literally reducing road space that is exclusively for car use and building protected bike lanes and pedestrian spaces where such road users cannot be killed by cars. The USA is likely not to the same degree. (Certainly not at the pace of Paris, which has changed remarkably) This is the simple, dull solution. Cars inevitably kill other road users because they’re fundamentally unsafe. Remove cars from having any possible interaction with other road users and deaths go down. It’s that simple.

jeffbee 4y ago

"Given its wealth" America is basically dirt poor. We have almost no public realm worth having. The only things we have that make us seem wealthy are things you can easily count, like bank accounts and big TVs and huge medical bills that make our GDP seem artificially high.

noenforcement 4y ago

[flagged]

jrockway 4y ago

> Any Americans want to posit a reason why? 2 things. 1) Covid / social distancing fucked up everyone's interpersonal skills. So if you're driving towards a pedestrian or cyclist, people are like "fuck it, they deserve to die if they're in my way." 2) It's currently the "style" to have pedestrian-killing bull bars on your truck. People think they look cool, but it just crushes the pedestrian you hit into a paste instead of pushing them up and over your hood. 1 is probably hard to fix. 2 should just be made illegal instantly. I get if you drive your pickup truck on a farm, or are regularly participating in high speed chases as a police officer, they might come in handy (?), but if you're driving around in the city commuting to your desk job, you don't need 'em. It just turns "we broke every bone in that poor pedestrian's body" into "he's dead, Jim". Absolutely no need for that; if we want to keep cars around, we need to design them to do minimal damage to the other road users they hit while their drivers are drunk. It might not look cool, but even better than looking cool is not murdering other people.

Reason077 4y ago
On the bright side, at least collision avoidance systems (AEB) in modern vehicles are getting better at detecting and avoiding pedestrians and cyclists.
- TheCoelacanth 4y ago
  And yet still the pedestrian death toll is rising. Even technology that would seem miraculous 20 years ago isn't enough to slow down the carnage.
gernb 4y ago
This isn't just a car driver issue. 90% of the cyclists and 75% of the pedestrians are also like "fuck it!", I don't care that the light is red, I'm crossing now. Fuck anyone who has the right of way. They'll have to wait". Add in the pedestrians who don't even look up from their phones as they cross on the red. Probably drivers doing this too. I'm not making excuses for cars. They are obviously big and heavy and kill people. Rather I'm saying the attitude of "fuck you, I'm going" is ubiquitous, at least in some parts of the USA.

bagels 4y ago

Was it because there was exceptionally less driving in 2020?