6 ms·

Robert Sansone, great job! So many young prospective engineers read HN every day. Let's find comments that are encouraging or thought provoking or point reade

Robert Sansone, great job! So many young prospective engineers read HN every day. Let's find comments that are encouraging or thought provoking or point readers in helpful directions Like @londons_explore did. Bringing the beatdown is bad for everyone. Especially bad for young engineers. This kid is impressive, straight up impressive. Let's encourage him and others like him. HN shouldn't someone's supervillain origin story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqMCYdqaFCQ&t=41s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqMCYdqaFCQ&t=41s

justsocrateasin 4y ago
I had a hunch this would link me to The Incredibles. Great reference and I totally agree with the sentiment.
throw_m239339 4y ago
> Bringing the beatdown is bad for everyone. It's healthy to question media narrative as the media tend to sensationalize and embellish stories for clicks or views. It's disingenuous to try to make people feel guilty about it arguing if we question that story that child will turn bad or something, in an post-truth era. Nobody is attacking that kid, just how the media cover these stories with a template.
- cheschire 4y ago
  Will the kid understand that's everyone's intent, I wonder?
  - Silverback_VII 4y ago
    He surely will have to understand that to be exceptional creates a lot of headwind (certainly in his own field). "The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly."
- tiahura 4y ago
  Being a curmudgeon isn't a virtue.
  - RHSeeger 4y ago
    Given the sheer number of headlines like "<This invention> will change the face of <this well known thing>" that really boil down to "<This idea, which isn't even new> is interesting to think about, but won't really have any impact on <this well known thing>"... it really doesn't make one ill-tempered to bring up for discussion whether the current article is one of those. It might not be one of those, and it's not fair to assume it _is_ one of those... but discussing whether it is or not isn't rude/mean, and probably _should_ be standard practice.
  - irthomasthomas 4y ago
    A curmudgeon is what a cockeyed optimist calls a realist.
- jwitchel 4y ago
  Fair enough, but context matters and there are two that matter here: (1) The subject was the tech and the engineer not biased media narratives, and (2) HN is a forum that so many people look up to. So if you want to context switch to a discussion about the media (a worthy subject BTW) post a new thread; let's not do it on a thread that is spotlighting interesting tech from a promising engineer.
  - slingnow 4y ago
    I would much rather live in a world where people question biased media narratives and we risk hurting someone's feelings than the other way around. If this kid can't handle a little bit of criticism, he won't be long for the engineering discipline.
    - psd1 4y ago
      That's a false dichotomy > If this kid can't handle a little bit of criticism I do expect adults - over 25 - to take the rough with the smooth. But children are not adults. I think you're assuming your own competence at pedagogy. I would want to shield children from you until they've developed the resilience you demand from them. Also, the emotional tone - sheesh
      - jwitchel 4y ago
        +1 And to pile on a bit here... part of learning to be a good engineer is learning how to give good constructive feedback. If you are creating real risk of truly hurting someone with your feedback (in a PR or a code review for example) then it's you who are at fault for tone deafness not them for being thin skinned. Giving and getting feedback is hard. It's a skill and it doesn't come easily to most. Sometimes hurting someone's feelings is inevitable, but starting from a place of "toughen up buttercup" is really self-serving and counterproductive. There is always someone better than you, and always someone worse. Always someone who knows something you don't, and always someone who can learn from you.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  I don't think this is totally on the media. The story is sufficiently weasel worded -- the motor "could" "pave the way". Anybody with any experience reads "could" as "probably not" and "pave the way" as "a tiny little step in a long process". Most 6 year olds have figured out that "maybe" means "probably not". Many adults have forgotten that lesson.
  - picture 4y ago
    Hey, as someone who's participated in the same competition, you got it right on the money. It's a well known joke amongst science fair students that "could pave the way to this and that" really means its kinda useless. Some of our school's projects from two years ago worked on quantum computing but didn't achieve the goals they'd hope for so our instructor just told them to sprinkle some paved the ways in their paper
  - alex_young 4y ago
    Most of the major inventions of the last 2 centuries were the product of many incremental steps. The automobile, the airplane, the computer, the internet, etc. I think it's worth celebrating even minor contributions toward a potentially world changing future personally.
    - petre 4y ago
      They (Tesla) now design materials with ML. So it's more optimization than innovation. I think ML combined with FEMM analysis can also be used to optimize motors. It might turn out a model that it too costly to manufacture but why not try it? Anyway, I hope Robert Samsone uses FEMM analysis to design his motor. It will definity help him build less prototypes.
giantg2 4y ago
mortenjorck 4y ago
I think this is the right angle to take. Unlike a lot of breathless "engineering breakthrough" stories, this piece, as well as young Mr. Sansone himself, readily acknowledge that this is a work in progress and may not pan out. Even if it doesn't, what an incredible achievement for a high-schooler – and just imagine the great contributions to the field this kid is poised to make in the coming decades.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  > and just imagine the great contributions to the field this kid is poised to make in the coming decades Well let's curb the expectations for now, it can be quite damaging for a kid be held forever to an potentially unrealistic standard just because they did something great once. I mean sure for the occasional genius it turns out fine because they live up to it, but for the rest it's a self hate and imposter syndrome on steroids.
  - hosh 4y ago
    I think this person has a strong intrinsic motivation to contribute innovations. He has already worked on other projects before this one. We don't have to have any expectations or setting up any extrinsic motivations or even to be cheerleaders, and instead, we can honor and respect him for who he is, and his chosen purpose. And for those with the capability and availability, act as resource if he needs it. (In the article, he says he was working without a mentor and had to figure a lot of stuff out himself).
  - ianai 4y ago
    No expectations, just recognition of potential and effort.
  - djmips 4y ago
    I don't know, there are plenty of counter examples.
  - tomthe 4y ago
    Correct. Expect regression to the mean.
Waterluvian 4y ago
People are far more likely to become your neighbours or coworkers than they are to replace you. Gotta resist the instinct to be competitive and gatekeep. This is wonderful work and it makes me feel bubbly about the future of engineering when young adults are _this engaged_.
aaron695 4y ago

justsocrateasin 4y ago

I had a hunch this would link me to The Incredibles. Great reference and I totally agree with the sentiment.

throw_m239339 4y ago

> Bringing the beatdown is bad for everyone. It's healthy to question media narrative as the media tend to sensationalize and embellish stories for clicks or views. It's disingenuous to try to make people feel guilty about it arguing if we question that story that child will turn bad or something, in an post-truth era. Nobody is attacking that kid, just how the media cover these stories with a template.

cheschire 4y ago
Will the kid understand that's everyone's intent, I wonder?
- Silverback_VII 4y ago
  He surely will have to understand that to be exceptional creates a lot of headwind (certainly in his own field). "The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly."
tiahura 4y ago
Being a curmudgeon isn't a virtue.
- RHSeeger 4y ago
  Given the sheer number of headlines like "<This invention> will change the face of <this well known thing>" that really boil down to "<This idea, which isn't even new> is interesting to think about, but won't really have any impact on <this well known thing>"... it really doesn't make one ill-tempered to bring up for discussion whether the current article is one of those. It might not be one of those, and it's not fair to assume it _is_ one of those... but discussing whether it is or not isn't rude/mean, and probably _should_ be standard practice.
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  A curmudgeon is what a cockeyed optimist calls a realist.
jwitchel 4y ago
Fair enough, but context matters and there are two that matter here: (1) The subject was the tech and the engineer not biased media narratives, and (2) HN is a forum that so many people look up to. So if you want to context switch to a discussion about the media (a worthy subject BTW) post a new thread; let's not do it on a thread that is spotlighting interesting tech from a promising engineer.
- slingnow 4y ago
  I would much rather live in a world where people question biased media narratives and we risk hurting someone's feelings than the other way around. If this kid can't handle a little bit of criticism, he won't be long for the engineering discipline.
  - psd1 4y ago
    That's a false dichotomy > If this kid can't handle a little bit of criticism I do expect adults - over 25 - to take the rough with the smooth. But children are not adults. I think you're assuming your own competence at pedagogy. I would want to shield children from you until they've developed the resilience you demand from them. Also, the emotional tone - sheesh
    - jwitchel 4y ago
      +1 And to pile on a bit here... part of learning to be a good engineer is learning how to give good constructive feedback. If you are creating real risk of truly hurting someone with your feedback (in a PR or a code review for example) then it's you who are at fault for tone deafness not them for being thin skinned. Giving and getting feedback is hard. It's a skill and it doesn't come easily to most. Sometimes hurting someone's feelings is inevitable, but starting from a place of "toughen up buttercup" is really self-serving and counterproductive. There is always someone better than you, and always someone worse. Always someone who knows something you don't, and always someone who can learn from you.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
bryanlarsen 4y ago
I don't think this is totally on the media. The story is sufficiently weasel worded -- the motor "could" "pave the way". Anybody with any experience reads "could" as "probably not" and "pave the way" as "a tiny little step in a long process". Most 6 year olds have figured out that "maybe" means "probably not". Many adults have forgotten that lesson.
- picture 4y ago
  Hey, as someone who's participated in the same competition, you got it right on the money. It's a well known joke amongst science fair students that "could pave the way to this and that" really means its kinda useless. Some of our school's projects from two years ago worked on quantum computing but didn't achieve the goals they'd hope for so our instructor just told them to sprinkle some paved the ways in their paper
- alex_young 4y ago
  Most of the major inventions of the last 2 centuries were the product of many incremental steps. The automobile, the airplane, the computer, the internet, etc. I think it's worth celebrating even minor contributions toward a potentially world changing future personally.
  - petre 4y ago
    They (Tesla) now design materials with ML. So it's more optimization than innovation. I think ML combined with FEMM analysis can also be used to optimize motors. It might turn out a model that it too costly to manufacture but why not try it? Anyway, I hope Robert Samsone uses FEMM analysis to design his motor. It will definity help him build less prototypes.

giantg2 4y ago

mortenjorck 4y ago

I think this is the right angle to take. Unlike a lot of breathless "engineering breakthrough" stories, this piece, as well as young Mr. Sansone himself, readily acknowledge that this is a work in progress and may not pan out. Even if it doesn't, what an incredible achievement for a high-schooler – and just imagine the great contributions to the field this kid is poised to make in the coming decades.

moffkalast 4y ago
> and just imagine the great contributions to the field this kid is poised to make in the coming decades Well let's curb the expectations for now, it can be quite damaging for a kid be held forever to an potentially unrealistic standard just because they did something great once. I mean sure for the occasional genius it turns out fine because they live up to it, but for the rest it's a self hate and imposter syndrome on steroids.
- hosh 4y ago
  I think this person has a strong intrinsic motivation to contribute innovations. He has already worked on other projects before this one. We don't have to have any expectations or setting up any extrinsic motivations or even to be cheerleaders, and instead, we can honor and respect him for who he is, and his chosen purpose. And for those with the capability and availability, act as resource if he needs it. (In the article, he says he was working without a mentor and had to figure a lot of stuff out himself).
- ianai 4y ago
  No expectations, just recognition of potential and effort.
- djmips 4y ago
  I don't know, there are plenty of counter examples.
- tomthe 4y ago
  Correct. Expect regression to the mean.

Waterluvian 4y ago

People are far more likely to become your neighbours or coworkers than they are to replace you. Gotta resist the instinct to be competitive and gatekeep. This is wonderful work and it makes me feel bubbly about the future of engineering when young adults are _this engaged_.

aaron695 4y ago