21 ms·

Dell’s XPS 13 Plus is the first laptop certified for Ubuntu 22.04 LTS

26 points by kelt 4y ago

senttoschool 4y ago
It starts at $1,449.00 for 1080p screen, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD. Why would the average user buy this over the M2 Air? Average user = Not doing anything that requires Windows or Linux. M2 Air has a better screen, faster CPU (plugged or unplugged), faster GPU, more battery life, fanless, runs cooler, better speakers, thinner, and it's cheaper. Also, I think not having function keys is a mistake. Touch keys are just awful on a keyboard. In addition, if you want to do even light gaming, you'd want function keys
- ev1 4y ago
  When your work only has a few approved vendors but doesn't care what the cost is even if a M2 would be cheaper :(
- kramerger 4y ago
  I can think of a few things, such as official Ubuntu support, better support for multiple displays, ability to run x86 apps including windows and games. And also not overheating like the m2 does, but honestly at this point who knows if the dell doesn't have the same problem...
  - EUROCARE 4y ago
    Everybody who ever had a Dell knows it has the same problem but much worse...
    - ht85 4y ago
      I have had various XPS 15 and I don't agree. The biggest source of thermal issue comes from discrete graphics (nvidia) in powered state. Disabling it (which I know can be tricky on linux) or opting for a machine with integrated graphics solves it. As for the CPU you get to pick your poison. With hyper-threading and turbo-boost, fans will be spinning most of the time. If you disable both you get 100% passive cooling.
      - EUROCARE 4y ago
        If I disabled both, the computer (which had i9) got less usable than my current fanless M1 Air.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    > I can think of a few things, such as official Ubuntu support, better support for multiple displays, ability to run x86 apps including windows and games. Hence, the "average user". Also, I wouldn't try to play games on the Dell as it has a weaker GPU and no function keys. > And also not overheating like the m2 does, but honestly at this point who knows if the dell doesn't have the same problem... M2 does not "overheat". It throttles like any CPU. It should still run cooler, faster, quieter than the Dell.
    - rowanG077 4y ago
      The M2 is significantly slower in multithreaded compared to the mid-range Dell XPS 13 Plus and a miniscule amount faster in single threaded. You can see this list: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores But in addition the M2 air runs hotter. They both throttle. But the M2 reaches over 100 degrees. You can see in this review: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56837-dell-xps-13-plus-9320-review/ https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56837-dell-xps-13-plus-9320-... That XPS 13 plus settles at around a continuous cinebench scores of ~1515. While the first run was 1795. That means it has a stability of about 84%. In contrast look at the M2 Air: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15V44ovoUWE&t=8m2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15V44ovoUWE&t=8m2s It's not the same cinebench version so the scores are not directly comparable but the stability is. The M2 settles to around 7300 with the initial score being 8551. That gives a stability of 85%. About the same as the XPS. Anyway if you want a fast ultra portable neither Apple nor Intel are good choices. You have to get an and MAD 6000 series laptop.
      - senttoschool 4y ago
        >The M2 is significantly slower in multithreaded compared to the mid-range Dell XPS 13 Plus and a miniscule amount faster in single threaded. You can see this list: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark. Geekbench is far better. https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6/eli5_why_does_it_seem_like_cinebench_is_now_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6/eli5_why_d... >But in addition the M2 air runs hotter. They both throttle. But the M2 reaches over 100 degrees. I used an M1 Air for over a year. While it can get hot if you run it a maximum, it runs extremely cool for being fanless on normal workloads. Most people aren't pushing their laptops to the max. >That XPS 13 plus settles at around a continuous cinebench scores of ~1515. While the first run was 1795. That means it has a stability of about 84%. Again, Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark. >Anyway if you want a fast ultra portable neither Apple nor Intel are good choices. You have to get an and MAD 6000 series laptop. Simply not true. Both Intel and Apple offer faster laptop chips than AMD.
- PennRobotics 4y ago
  You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. If I need a high-performance laptop with Linux---and especially if extended distribution support is important---I'd be wiser to go with the first one certified against the latest LTS rather than trying to convince a "built for Windows" laptop to work: one expected to provide full ACPI access/control, a working fingerprint reader, S/PDIF, a working graphics stack, performance optimizations. As one example: If you're a university robotics program, it makes sense to get 20 of these at the B2B price tier for your incoming students and they'll >>just work<< for the entire duration of someone's graduate degree and beyond. (Unless something changed recently, Northwestern does this.) As far as function keys, I also hate capacitive buttons ever since having a touch bar on a work computer. Using vim, you're constantly pressing the glass... nothing corner. For laptops, it is sensible to default the top row to various controls (brightness, media keys, airplane mode, etc.) rather than F1, F2, etc. But once you have a dedicated Fn key, why not make F1 = Fn + 1, F2 = Fn + 2, etc.? It would take a week of getting used to but makes the most sense---especially if your top row of "real buttons" is now the number keys.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    > You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. The Apple Silicon hardware is so good, it should make Linux users rethink being Linux users. At least until Asahi Linux has decent hardware support, but even then Linux just doesn't cut it in terms of UI.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      If you already use and like Linux, MacOS doesn't cut it in terms of UI. ;) Minor performance and power efficiency gains aren't worth putting up with Apple's software and hardware limitations IMO. I like having full control of the UI, I like having the ability to swap out the SSD and not need to pay $200 for 512GB at time of purchase. I like being able to use 2 external monitors. And to have screen size options bigger than 13" that cost less than $2000
    - darthrupert 4y ago
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  > not having function keys Makes sure I won't buy it never. Also no ContextMenu key and no way to hold it with one hand (because the keyboard takes all width and doesn't have a border). Now imagine you are standing, holding it on the palm of one hand and... now you need to press Fn (leftmost part of the keyboard), RCtrl (rightmost part) and touchable F10. All with one hand.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rowanG077 4y ago
  M2 air is faster on paper.Unfortunately it's incredibly thermally limited. So I doubt it's better then the XPS 13 plus
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    Test any Intel or AMD laptop unplugged.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- _8j50 4y ago
  The same reason people pay $700 for a samsung phone instead of an iphone. They know windows and some may not like apple but most just go to the store and get what is there. I looked to buy an apple product last year and went to every store I could find nearby including walmart, target and microcenter. Bestbuy and the apple store were closed because of covid at the time. None had an apple laptop to sell me let along an M1/2. Apple would make a lot more money if it sold at more retail stores but they make too much money I guess?
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    > but most just go to the store and get what is there. Amazon disagrees. Perhaps you should have saved time and fuel and shopped online?
    - _8j50 4y ago
      Then I would have to wait for it to arrive and deal with delivery people, returns,etc...
      - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
        Still sounds easier than running around.
        _8j50 4y ago
        It isn't. Plus I get to pay in cash at a store and look at the product and handle it a bit before making a decision.
        ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
        >I looked to buy an apple product last year and went to every store I could find nearby including walmart, target and microcenter. Bestbuy and the apple store were closed because of covid at the time. None had an apple laptop to sell me let along an M1/2. You could have it ordered within ten minutes and delivered within a few days. Also, you can custom-configure Macs ordered online, whereas only a few specific configurations are sold at retail.
- AnonymousPlanet 4y ago
  The M2 Air supports only one external display. Based on that alone, nearly any other laptop looks better to me.
  - vips7L 4y ago
    If we’re back at the average user I doubt they use an external display at all.
    - e-clinton 4y ago
      Does the average user even own a computer? Or do the mostly use their work laptop and phone/tablet for personal things (my wife)
      - vips7L 4y ago
        Every home laptop user I know only uses their laptop screen. At most they'll use an external mouse.
kramerger 4y ago
Any former ThinkPad users currently using the XPS line as their daily driver? How is the quality of this thing?
- llampx 4y ago
  I tried using a Dell Inspiron 14 for a while and it was not a good replacement for my Thinkpad. Quality-wise it was ok and looks-wise also, but the feel is not as nice as my Thinkpad T470s. The many, many issues on the r/dell subreddit chased me away from XPS laptops.
- Faaak 4y ago
  Currently using an XPS 13 9370 on ubuntu 22.04 without any problems so far. Battery is "ok" at around 5/6 hours. I had thinkpads before, and they worked also great
- stevesimmons 4y ago
  I used ThinkPads for a decade, and then XPS13 for the last 8 years (plus a year on XPS15 for my personal machine before switching back to XPS13). The XPS13s ran Linux for most of that time. My current work XPS13 is Windows 11 plus WSL2 running Ubuntu 22.04. I like the XPS13 for its small physical size, good Linux compatibility (if buying a brand new model, wait for the first BIOS point release to come out before purchasing) and in recent models, the 16x10 rather than 16x9 screen. Quality is ok. Needed one motherboard replacement (under warranty) in 8 years, and that's running/cycling every day with the laptop in my backpack. The other thing is I use it with an external monitor above the laptop. Don't use an external keyboard because I don't mind the XPS13 keyboard [1] and don't want to be changing keyboards between work/home/while travelling. [1] Apart from the new touch-sensitive function key row... Just give me normal keys that depress. I won't buy the 2022 XPS13 if I can't buy one with a proper keyboard.
varispeed 4y ago
I have XPS 9570 and using Linux. I can say this is the most rubbish piece of hardware I had. I only bought XPS because I couldn't really find anything better that is non Apple. I see that Dell has not learned anything by the looks of XPS 13 Plus. Given that this laptop is aimed at professionals, why does it have such an atrocious keyboard? Just by looking at it, I know it would make me want to drop this laptop in the bin. Small cursor keys, no dedicated PgUp / PgDown etc. And it's not fanless. With my XPS you can't have a Teams meeting without someone pointing out "what's that noise?" and then you have to say "oh sorry that's my laptop". I am in the market for a new laptop, and on the issue of fans alone I am going to go with M2 Air. If I could run a linux on a VM at reasonable speed, I'll be happy.
- nicolaslem 4y ago
  Thinkpads and Elitebooks with Ryzen 6000 are starting to be available. They have best in class keyboards, CPU horsepower and efficiency in the same ballpark as M2 and user-serviceable parts. Most of them support linux without too much tweaking.
  - varispeed 4y ago
    Looking at ThinkPad Z13. I don't understand why would they mess up the keyboard as well. They have plenty of space for full size cursors and a block of Home/PgUp/PgDown/End keys and likely they could get F keys larger. Such a missed opportunity. Oh and the focus on Z letter - they had plenty of time to use different one. Given the current events, pulling out a laptop with Z on it would be a massive faux pas. Elitebook is even worse. Looks like a cheap generic laptop from AliExpress and a crap keyboard at massive premium.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    >CPU horsepower and efficiency in the same ballpark as M2 I think it's off by 2-3x compared to M2 in terms of efficency.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  This probably isn't meant to compete with Macbooks. This is probably meant to steal market share from other PC laptop manufacturers (like Lenovo). If that's the case, then there's absolutely no reason to spend a lot of R&D money making a keyboard that can compete with Apple's offerings.
prmoustache 4y ago
"Yes, the one with the touch-sensitive buttons." Aren't all buttons touch-sensitive by definition? What does it means? Does it supports different levels of pressure? Does-it support not pushing them but just contacting the surface?
- hulitu 4y ago
  > Aren't all buttons touch-sensitive by definition? Maybe some are insensitive.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    you mean those have feelings that can be hurt? ^_^
- goosedragons 4y ago
  Keyboard keys are not touch sensitive typically. Touching a keyboard key will not trigger it you need to apply downward force. The XPS 13 Plus has capacitive touch buttons for function keys. They work like a touch screen. You touch them and they trigger.

26 points by kelt 4y ago

It starts at $1,449.00 for 1080p screen, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD. Why would the average user buy this over the M2 Air? Average user = Not doing anything that requires Windows or Linux. M2 Air has a better screen, faster CPU (plugged or unplugged), faster GPU, more battery life, fanless, runs cooler, better speakers, thinner, and it's cheaper. Also, I think not having function keys is a mistake. Touch keys are just awful on a keyboard. In addition, if you want to do even light gaming, you'd want function keys

ev1 4y ago
When your work only has a few approved vendors but doesn't care what the cost is even if a M2 would be cheaper :(
kramerger 4y ago
I can think of a few things, such as official Ubuntu support, better support for multiple displays, ability to run x86 apps including windows and games. And also not overheating like the m2 does, but honestly at this point who knows if the dell doesn't have the same problem...
- EUROCARE 4y ago
  Everybody who ever had a Dell knows it has the same problem but much worse...
  - ht85 4y ago
    I have had various XPS 15 and I don't agree. The biggest source of thermal issue comes from discrete graphics (nvidia) in powered state. Disabling it (which I know can be tricky on linux) or opting for a machine with integrated graphics solves it. As for the CPU you get to pick your poison. With hyper-threading and turbo-boost, fans will be spinning most of the time. If you disable both you get 100% passive cooling.
    - EUROCARE 4y ago
      If I disabled both, the computer (which had i9) got less usable than my current fanless M1 Air.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  > I can think of a few things, such as official Ubuntu support, better support for multiple displays, ability to run x86 apps including windows and games. Hence, the "average user". Also, I wouldn't try to play games on the Dell as it has a weaker GPU and no function keys. > And also not overheating like the m2 does, but honestly at this point who knows if the dell doesn't have the same problem... M2 does not "overheat". It throttles like any CPU. It should still run cooler, faster, quieter than the Dell.
  - rowanG077 4y ago
    The M2 is significantly slower in multithreaded compared to the mid-range Dell XPS 13 Plus and a miniscule amount faster in single threaded. You can see this list: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores But in addition the M2 air runs hotter. They both throttle. But the M2 reaches over 100 degrees. You can see in this review: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56837-dell-xps-13-plus-9320-review/ https://www.ultrabookreview.com/56837-dell-xps-13-plus-9320-... That XPS 13 plus settles at around a continuous cinebench scores of ~1515. While the first run was 1795. That means it has a stability of about 84%. In contrast look at the M2 Air: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15V44ovoUWE&t=8m2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15V44ovoUWE&t=8m2s It's not the same cinebench version so the scores are not directly comparable but the stability is. The M2 settles to around 7300 with the initial score being 8551. That gives a stability of 85%. About the same as the XPS. Anyway if you want a fast ultra portable neither Apple nor Intel are good choices. You have to get an and MAD 6000 series laptop.
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      >The M2 is significantly slower in multithreaded compared to the mid-range Dell XPS 13 Plus and a miniscule amount faster in single threaded. You can see this list: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-list/cinebench-scores Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark. Geekbench is far better. https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6/eli5_why_does_it_seem_like_cinebench_is_now_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6/eli5_why_d... >But in addition the M2 air runs hotter. They both throttle. But the M2 reaches over 100 degrees. I used an M1 Air for over a year. While it can get hot if you run it a maximum, it runs extremely cool for being fanless on normal workloads. Most people aren't pushing their laptops to the max. >That XPS 13 plus settles at around a continuous cinebench scores of ~1515. While the first run was 1795. That means it has a stability of about 84%. Again, Cinebench is a terrible CPU benchmark. >Anyway if you want a fast ultra portable neither Apple nor Intel are good choices. You have to get an and MAD 6000 series laptop. Simply not true. Both Intel and Apple offer faster laptop chips than AMD.
PennRobotics 4y ago
You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. If I need a high-performance laptop with Linux---and especially if extended distribution support is important---I'd be wiser to go with the first one certified against the latest LTS rather than trying to convince a "built for Windows" laptop to work: one expected to provide full ACPI access/control, a working fingerprint reader, S/PDIF, a working graphics stack, performance optimizations. As one example: If you're a university robotics program, it makes sense to get 20 of these at the B2B price tier for your incoming students and they'll >>just work<< for the entire duration of someone's graduate degree and beyond. (Unless something changed recently, Northwestern does this.) As far as function keys, I also hate capacitive buttons ever since having a touch bar on a work computer. Using vim, you're constantly pressing the glass... nothing corner. For laptops, it is sensible to default the top row to various controls (brightness, media keys, airplane mode, etc.) rather than F1, F2, etc. But once you have a dedicated Fn key, why not make F1 = Fn + 1, F2 = Fn + 2, etc.? It would take a week of getting used to but makes the most sense---especially if your top row of "real buttons" is now the number keys.
- bitwize 4y ago
  > You answered your own question. Non-Linux users already have plenty of options e.g. M2 Air. The Apple Silicon hardware is so good, it should make Linux users rethink being Linux users. At least until Asahi Linux has decent hardware support, but even then Linux just doesn't cut it in terms of UI.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    If you already use and like Linux, MacOS doesn't cut it in terms of UI. ;) Minor performance and power efficiency gains aren't worth putting up with Apple's software and hardware limitations IMO. I like having full control of the UI, I like having the ability to swap out the SSD and not need to pay $200 for 512GB at time of purchase. I like being able to use 2 external monitors. And to have screen size options bigger than 13" that cost less than $2000
  - darthrupert 4y ago
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> not having function keys Makes sure I won't buy it never. Also no ContextMenu key and no way to hold it with one hand (because the keyboard takes all width and doesn't have a border). Now imagine you are standing, holding it on the palm of one hand and... now you need to press Fn (leftmost part of the keyboard), RCtrl (rightmost part) and touchable F10. All with one hand.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rowanG077 4y ago
M2 air is faster on paper.Unfortunately it's incredibly thermally limited. So I doubt it's better then the XPS 13 plus
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Test any Intel or AMD laptop unplugged.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
_8j50 4y ago
The same reason people pay $700 for a samsung phone instead of an iphone. They know windows and some may not like apple but most just go to the store and get what is there. I looked to buy an apple product last year and went to every store I could find nearby including walmart, target and microcenter. Bestbuy and the apple store were closed because of covid at the time. None had an apple laptop to sell me let along an M1/2. Apple would make a lot more money if it sold at more retail stores but they make too much money I guess?
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  > but most just go to the store and get what is there. Amazon disagrees. Perhaps you should have saved time and fuel and shopped online?
  - _8j50 4y ago
    Then I would have to wait for it to arrive and deal with delivery people, returns,etc...
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      Still sounds easier than running around.
      - _8j50 4y ago
        It isn't. Plus I get to pay in cash at a store and look at the product and handle it a bit before making a decision.
        ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
        >I looked to buy an apple product last year and went to every store I could find nearby including walmart, target and microcenter. Bestbuy and the apple store were closed because of covid at the time. None had an apple laptop to sell me let along an M1/2. You could have it ordered within ten minutes and delivered within a few days. Also, you can custom-configure Macs ordered online, whereas only a few specific configurations are sold at retail.
AnonymousPlanet 4y ago
The M2 Air supports only one external display. Based on that alone, nearly any other laptop looks better to me.
- vips7L 4y ago
  If we’re back at the average user I doubt they use an external display at all.
  - e-clinton 4y ago
    Does the average user even own a computer? Or do the mostly use their work laptop and phone/tablet for personal things (my wife)
    - vips7L 4y ago
      Every home laptop user I know only uses their laptop screen. At most they'll use an external mouse.

kramerger 4y ago

Any former ThinkPad users currently using the XPS line as their daily driver? How is the quality of this thing?

llampx 4y ago
I tried using a Dell Inspiron 14 for a while and it was not a good replacement for my Thinkpad. Quality-wise it was ok and looks-wise also, but the feel is not as nice as my Thinkpad T470s. The many, many issues on the r/dell subreddit chased me away from XPS laptops.
Faaak 4y ago
Currently using an XPS 13 9370 on ubuntu 22.04 without any problems so far. Battery is "ok" at around 5/6 hours. I had thinkpads before, and they worked also great
stevesimmons 4y ago
I used ThinkPads for a decade, and then XPS13 for the last 8 years (plus a year on XPS15 for my personal machine before switching back to XPS13). The XPS13s ran Linux for most of that time. My current work XPS13 is Windows 11 plus WSL2 running Ubuntu 22.04. I like the XPS13 for its small physical size, good Linux compatibility (if buying a brand new model, wait for the first BIOS point release to come out before purchasing) and in recent models, the 16x10 rather than 16x9 screen. Quality is ok. Needed one motherboard replacement (under warranty) in 8 years, and that's running/cycling every day with the laptop in my backpack. The other thing is I use it with an external monitor above the laptop. Don't use an external keyboard because I don't mind the XPS13 keyboard [1] and don't want to be changing keyboards between work/home/while travelling. [1] Apart from the new touch-sensitive function key row... Just give me normal keys that depress. I won't buy the 2022 XPS13 if I can't buy one with a proper keyboard.

varispeed 4y ago

I have XPS 9570 and using Linux. I can say this is the most rubbish piece of hardware I had. I only bought XPS because I couldn't really find anything better that is non Apple. I see that Dell has not learned anything by the looks of XPS 13 Plus. Given that this laptop is aimed at professionals, why does it have such an atrocious keyboard? Just by looking at it, I know it would make me want to drop this laptop in the bin. Small cursor keys, no dedicated PgUp / PgDown etc. And it's not fanless. With my XPS you can't have a Teams meeting without someone pointing out "what's that noise?" and then you have to say "oh sorry that's my laptop". I am in the market for a new laptop, and on the issue of fans alone I am going to go with M2 Air. If I could run a linux on a VM at reasonable speed, I'll be happy.

nicolaslem 4y ago
Thinkpads and Elitebooks with Ryzen 6000 are starting to be available. They have best in class keyboards, CPU horsepower and efficiency in the same ballpark as M2 and user-serviceable parts. Most of them support linux without too much tweaking.
- varispeed 4y ago
  Looking at ThinkPad Z13. I don't understand why would they mess up the keyboard as well. They have plenty of space for full size cursors and a block of Home/PgUp/PgDown/End keys and likely they could get F keys larger. Such a missed opportunity. Oh and the focus on Z letter - they had plenty of time to use different one. Given the current events, pulling out a laptop with Z on it would be a massive faux pas. Elitebook is even worse. Looks like a cheap generic laptop from AliExpress and a crap keyboard at massive premium.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  >CPU horsepower and efficiency in the same ballpark as M2 I think it's off by 2-3x compared to M2 in terms of efficency.
phendrenad2 4y ago
This probably isn't meant to compete with Macbooks. This is probably meant to steal market share from other PC laptop manufacturers (like Lenovo). If that's the case, then there's absolutely no reason to spend a lot of R&D money making a keyboard that can compete with Apple's offerings.

prmoustache 4y ago

"Yes, the one with the touch-sensitive buttons." Aren't all buttons touch-sensitive by definition? What does it means? Does it supports different levels of pressure? Does-it support not pushing them but just contacting the surface?

hulitu 4y ago
> Aren't all buttons touch-sensitive by definition? Maybe some are insensitive.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  you mean those have feelings that can be hurt? ^_^
goosedragons 4y ago
Keyboard keys are not touch sensitive typically. Touching a keyboard key will not trigger it you need to apply downward force. The XPS 13 Plus has capacitive touch buttons for function keys. They work like a touch screen. You touch them and they trigger.