5 ms·

Correct - after years of deliberately hobbling Safari so you couldn't build quality app experiences, they suddenly start releasing lots of useful improvement ju

by jinder 4y ago

Correct - after years of deliberately hobbling Safari so you couldn't build quality app experiences, they suddenly start releasing lots of useful improvement just as regulators are sniffing around.

scarface74 4y ago
I keep seeing this conspiracy. It came out during the epic trial that the vast majority of revenue from the App Store comes from pay to win games. Apple isn’t making money off of apps that could be a web apps.
- jinder 4y ago
  The vast majority of apps you see on the App Store, including most games can be web apps. So I'm not sure what your point is? Apple has deliberately under-invested in implementing web platform features on Safari. If you've tried to build a web app on Safari vs Android Chrome, you'll know what I mean. It's not a conspiracy - it's a clear as day policy to keep consumers and developers locked into their platform.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    How many pay to win games are web apps on Android then? Why didn’t Epic just make all of their game web apps on Android and PC.
- mhoad 4y ago
  That’s really just more evidence to support the theory and is in no way exculpatory. The only thing it adds to the picture is that the majority of their revenue is also extremely predatory and the underlying model essentially works the same way as slot machines.
  - mtomweb 4y ago
    It’s an awful business model. It’s one thing to have Safari hobbled because of high quality business apps and games, another for loot boxes, gems and countdown timers to exploit whales.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      If only Safari is hobbled to not allow games - why are all popular games native apps on Android?
      - mtomweb 4y ago
        The main advantage of the web is interoperability, if you don’t have that and the game engines developers just go for native. Once the core gaming APIs are supported across both iOS and Android (WebGPU, SIMD, WASM threads, fast storage, install prompts, notifications), I think you will see the main gaming engines implemented and then you’ll see the games move.
        scarface74 4y ago
        The game studios like in app purchasing where you get to buy loot boxes and other zero marginal cost goods without thinking about it. We have a control in the experiment - we have an “open ecosystem” in Android and supposedly a much better browser - yet and still, game developers still choose to give Google the same 30% cut as Apple. Maybe it’s not because Apple is holding the web back?
        mtomweb 4y ago
        I think it's one of those things, that if you're not using Safari to develop Web Apps it's very hard to see what the problems are from the outside. If you get some time we've written a lot of detail about it here: https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/ https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/ Personally I hate loot boxes etc, It's an awful business model.
        scarface74 4y ago
        I’m not claiming or not claiming that Safari is best at supporting “web standards”. I’m simply saying that if Apple supported every web standard in the world, the revenue generating apps would still be native.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    What should they do? Ban pay for win games? They already offer Apple Arcade that doesn’t have any of the predatory practices. They can’t be making that much charging $4.95 and paying game developers an advance.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by jinder 4y ago

Correct - after years of deliberately hobbling Safari so you couldn't build quality app experiences, they suddenly start releasing lots of useful improvement just as regulators are sniffing around.

scarface74 4y ago

I keep seeing this conspiracy. It came out during the epic trial that the vast majority of revenue from the App Store comes from pay to win games. Apple isn’t making money off of apps that could be a web apps.

jinder 4y ago
The vast majority of apps you see on the App Store, including most games can be web apps. So I'm not sure what your point is? Apple has deliberately under-invested in implementing web platform features on Safari. If you've tried to build a web app on Safari vs Android Chrome, you'll know what I mean. It's not a conspiracy - it's a clear as day policy to keep consumers and developers locked into their platform.
- scarface74 4y ago
  How many pay to win games are web apps on Android then? Why didn’t Epic just make all of their game web apps on Android and PC.
mhoad 4y ago
That’s really just more evidence to support the theory and is in no way exculpatory. The only thing it adds to the picture is that the majority of their revenue is also extremely predatory and the underlying model essentially works the same way as slot machines.
- mtomweb 4y ago
  It’s an awful business model. It’s one thing to have Safari hobbled because of high quality business apps and games, another for loot boxes, gems and countdown timers to exploit whales.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    If only Safari is hobbled to not allow games - why are all popular games native apps on Android?
    - mtomweb 4y ago
      The main advantage of the web is interoperability, if you don’t have that and the game engines developers just go for native. Once the core gaming APIs are supported across both iOS and Android (WebGPU, SIMD, WASM threads, fast storage, install prompts, notifications), I think you will see the main gaming engines implemented and then you’ll see the games move.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        The game studios like in app purchasing where you get to buy loot boxes and other zero marginal cost goods without thinking about it. We have a control in the experiment - we have an “open ecosystem” in Android and supposedly a much better browser - yet and still, game developers still choose to give Google the same 30% cut as Apple. Maybe it’s not because Apple is holding the web back?
        mtomweb 4y ago
        I think it's one of those things, that if you're not using Safari to develop Web Apps it's very hard to see what the problems are from the outside. If you get some time we've written a lot of detail about it here: https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/ https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/ Personally I hate loot boxes etc, It's an awful business model.
        scarface74 4y ago
        I’m not claiming or not claiming that Safari is best at supporting “web standards”. I’m simply saying that if Apple supported every web standard in the world, the revenue generating apps would still be native.
- scarface74 4y ago
  What should they do? Ban pay for win games? They already offer Apple Arcade that doesn’t have any of the predatory practices. They can’t be making that much charging $4.95 and paying game developers an advance.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]