5 ms·

So hare's target niche is people who want to use hare? On the first blog post and the ensuing conversation here that wasn't clearly stated (at least as far as I

by hamter 4y ago

So hare's target niche is people who want to use hare? On the first blog post and the ensuing conversation here that wasn't clearly stated (at least as far as I can tell). It seems a little strange that the programming language's niche would be "idk why not"... but then again why can't it be?

ddevault 4y ago
Hare's target niche is stated on its home page: > Hare is a systems programming language designed to be simple, stable, and robust. Hare uses a static type system, manual memory management, and a minimal runtime. It is well-suited to writing operating systems, system tools, compilers, networking software, and other low-level, high performance tasks. I would be happy to clarify further if you're still unsure of what kind of programs are well-served by being written in Hare.
- hamter 4y ago
  Yeah that's not really a niche as much as it is a description of what Hare is. Maybe what would be more helpful are some examples of use-cases you and the rest of the Hare team have in mind when developing this language.
  - ddevault 4y ago
    I feel like we're really picking nits at this point. We're using it to develop these things. There are ongoing projects to make a kernel in Hare, POSIX utilities, a password manager, graphics libraries, and so on. There's a list of ongoing projects here which may make this clearer: https://sr.ht/~vladh/hare-project-library/ https://sr.ht/~vladh/hare-project-library/ I hope that helps.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - lifthrasiir 4y ago
      That's still a list of projects possible to write in Hare, not necessarily good to write in Hare. At this stage I believe (and if true, hope you to clearly state) that Hare exists in the same realm as Sourcehut, that is, the alternative world you and like-minded people prefer. Many programming languages exist mostly to fulfill creators' ego and yet completely deny that fact, which would be unwise in my opinion.
- runeks 4y ago
  What I’m missing are comparisons. A few examples illustrating what makes Hare preferable when compared to C/Rust/Zig.
  - ddevault 4y ago
    I really want to avoid measuring Hare up against other languages. I think it stands on its own merits, and would prefer that people evaluate it in earnest rather than compare bullet points with another language. Nevertheless, there does exist a (dated) comparison with C: https://harelang.org/blog/2021-02-09-hare-advances-on-c/ https://harelang.org/blog/2021-02-09-hare-advances-on-c/ And if you have any specific questions that you want to frame in the context of another language, I will do my best to answer them.
    - twh270 4y ago
      If you want people to evaluate it on its own merits, then make those merits stand out. As it stands, your intro paragraph ("Hare is a systems programming language...") is so generic that it doesn't tell me why I might want to use it instead of C or Zig or assembly. Where does it excel? What makes it stand out? Bullet points help me quickly decide whether I want to spend time evaluating a language.
    - runeks 4y ago
      > I think it stands on its own merits, and would prefer that people evaluate it in earnest rather than compare bullet points with another language. I’m definitely not looking for bullet point comparisons. Rather, I’m looking for an example of implementing some concrete functionality in both Hare and — say — C, which highlights the advantages of Hare over C in implementing this specific functionality.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Every language would do us (programmers) a great favor by having a page titled "Pro & Cons" or even "When to use X / When not to use X", and could include comparing other languages as well. Maybe it's hard to sell your language if you have to include cons/when not to use X as well, but it'll help gain trust for sure. In the case of Hare, it doesn't seem to be good if you want to be able to have anything running on Windows/macOS, as one stated goal is "Hare does not, and will not, support any proprietary operating systems" according to https://harelang.org/platforms/ https://harelang.org/platforms/, which makes it very unattractive for me at least, as I move across three platforms daily.

by hamter 4y ago

ddevault 4y ago

Hare's target niche is stated on its home page: > Hare is a systems programming language designed to be simple, stable, and robust. Hare uses a static type system, manual memory management, and a minimal runtime. It is well-suited to writing operating systems, system tools, compilers, networking software, and other low-level, high performance tasks. I would be happy to clarify further if you're still unsure of what kind of programs are well-served by being written in Hare.

hamter 4y ago
Yeah that's not really a niche as much as it is a description of what Hare is. Maybe what would be more helpful are some examples of use-cases you and the rest of the Hare team have in mind when developing this language.
- ddevault 4y ago
  I feel like we're really picking nits at this point. We're using it to develop these things. There are ongoing projects to make a kernel in Hare, POSIX utilities, a password manager, graphics libraries, and so on. There's a list of ongoing projects here which may make this clearer: https://sr.ht/~vladh/hare-project-library/ https://sr.ht/~vladh/hare-project-library/ I hope that helps.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lifthrasiir 4y ago
    That's still a list of projects possible to write in Hare, not necessarily good to write in Hare. At this stage I believe (and if true, hope you to clearly state) that Hare exists in the same realm as Sourcehut, that is, the alternative world you and like-minded people prefer. Many programming languages exist mostly to fulfill creators' ego and yet completely deny that fact, which would be unwise in my opinion.
runeks 4y ago
What I’m missing are comparisons. A few examples illustrating what makes Hare preferable when compared to C/Rust/Zig.
- ddevault 4y ago
  I really want to avoid measuring Hare up against other languages. I think it stands on its own merits, and would prefer that people evaluate it in earnest rather than compare bullet points with another language. Nevertheless, there does exist a (dated) comparison with C: https://harelang.org/blog/2021-02-09-hare-advances-on-c/ https://harelang.org/blog/2021-02-09-hare-advances-on-c/ And if you have any specific questions that you want to frame in the context of another language, I will do my best to answer them.
  - twh270 4y ago
    If you want people to evaluate it on its own merits, then make those merits stand out. As it stands, your intro paragraph ("Hare is a systems programming language...") is so generic that it doesn't tell me why I might want to use it instead of C or Zig or assembly. Where does it excel? What makes it stand out? Bullet points help me quickly decide whether I want to spend time evaluating a language.
  - runeks 4y ago
    > I think it stands on its own merits, and would prefer that people evaluate it in earnest rather than compare bullet points with another language. I’m definitely not looking for bullet point comparisons. Rather, I’m looking for an example of implementing some concrete functionality in both Hare and — say — C, which highlights the advantages of Hare over C in implementing this specific functionality.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Every language would do us (programmers) a great favor by having a page titled "Pro & Cons" or even "When to use X / When not to use X", and could include comparing other languages as well. Maybe it's hard to sell your language if you have to include cons/when not to use X as well, but it'll help gain trust for sure. In the case of Hare, it doesn't seem to be good if you want to be able to have anything running on Windows/macOS, as one stated goal is "Hare does not, and will not, support any proprietary operating systems" according to https://harelang.org/platforms/ https://harelang.org/platforms/, which makes it very unattractive for me at least, as I move across three platforms daily.