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A remarkable thing about these stories is that many artists end up enjoying lavish lifestyles while they're popular, but having no money (and going on the dole)

A remarkable thing about these stories is that many artists end up enjoying lavish lifestyles while they're popular, but having no money (and going on the dole) when their success wanes. The record industry absolutely encourages this boom and bust lifestyle by advancing money and then withholding royalties until an artist is "recouped", which almost never happens thanks to some fun accounting tricks. The result is young people who come from modest means, are showered with cash, and recieved no financial planning advice. They're also a magnet for people trying to get a cut of the money - people who will encourage them to pursue a lifestyle of excess.

soupfordummies 4y ago
Gotta spend the money and ball out because it’s part of the look and the “brand”. You often see this in a different manner with pro athletes, sadly.
daenz 4y ago
>The record industry absolutely encourages this boom and bust lifestyle It's part of the overall appeal, and that says something about human nature. We like to see the reckless brilliant star careening into the stratosphere, knowing full well that it is unsustainable. It's the human embodiment of life and overabundant success.
kraussvonespy 4y ago
One can draw a very similar arc for lottery winners too. Most of them are broke and vagrant after ~2 years of luxury. There's no planning for tomorrow. The people most drawn to lotteries (and perhaps those drawn to the limelight too) are those that have the worst life and money skills. I think we all know people who live the feast or famine lifestyle of cruises and new TVs when the tax refund comes followed by 11 months of scraping by and complaining about their money situation.
- ardit33 4y ago
  Source? From what I see, is that 70% spend their money after 5 years, but don't just become 'homeless' / destitute. This seems some kind of overblown myth. The other study I found: "Statistically, 1% of lottery winners in the Florida study went bankrupt annually (Source: https://www.creditdonkey.com/lottery-winner-statistics.html https://www.creditdonkey.com/lottery-winner-statistics.html)"
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
I mean, I agree with you, but is it really surprising that rock stars aren't that interested in retirement planning? That is, the type of person that craves the spotlight and succeeds is also the type that is unlikely to max out their IRA contributions.
jlarocco 4y ago
> The result is young people who come from modest means, are showered with cash, and recieved no financial planning advice. You can say the same thing, although toned down a bit, about the college loan situation in the United States.
- gruez 4y ago
  Well, not really. Are college students taking their student loans and blowing it on "lavish lifestyles"? Or are they just trying to scrape by? My guess is that after non-discretionary expenses (eg. tuition and rent), there isn't much left, unlike for pop stars.
  - jedmeyers 4y ago
    > Are college students taking their student loans and blowing it on "lavish lifestyles"? Colleges certainly do. There is no market economy in giving out loans but yet there are no price and quality controls on the receiving end of the money.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    College life in the US is a massive sink for those who aren't financially disciplined. Getting loans is easy for most who attended, including stipend loans for "living expenses" such as binge drinking on at least a weekly basis. The lifestyle certainly isn't lavish in the sense that pop star lifestyle is, but taking out many tens of thousands of dollars in an attempt to become a librarian (one friend of mine did just that) is just stupid, financially speaking. Short of having family bail you out or marrying a high income earner, you're a prisoner to loans that's cannot be discharged via bankruptcy.
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      > but taking out many tens of thousands of dollars in an attempt to become a librarian (one friend of mine did just that) is just stupid, financially speaking The problem is, society needs librarians and other "non-STEM" science - we're right now, for example in Germany [1], seeing with the cluelessness of politicians on Russia how utterly ignorant it was to cut funding for Eastern European studies back in 2005. And mind ya that's Europe where "student loans" aren't really a thing because we don't have absurd tuitions because the government pays for universities. We haven't found a way to incentivize people to take up these studies, and we absolutely need to, otherwise we are going to lose so much knowledge over the next decades. My s/o for example has a brilliant master's degree in art history, but funding for positions that match her experience is scarce to say the least, and covid didn't exactly help. She's currently working for the government to help fight the pandemic, but it's a sad waste of potential how many people like her are simply left behind. [1] https://www.pnn.de/wissenschaft/slawisten-kaempfen-fuer-ihre-disziplin-memorandum-gegen-abbau-der-slawistik/22346720.html https://www.pnn.de/wissenschaft/slawisten-kaempfen-fuer-ihre...
DoreenMichele 4y ago
My recollection is the NFL requires financial education for football players because most pro football careers are short-lived and it's the most money most of them will ever make, but they are young and tend to want to behave like this is their starting salary for their career and it will surely go up from here.
- ghaff 4y ago
  See also actors, perhaps especially TV actors, etc. They're young. They're in an environment of people spending money lavishly. And, as you say, they really want to believe that they'll be the statistical anomaly who will have a long lucrative career.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    It's also hard because some of those "lavish" expenses are a necessity if you are famous and make your money from things like looks. Very famous people may need security in various forms that ordinary people do not need (bullet proof limo, security guard, housing with security). Oprah has said if she wears the same outfit twice in two months on her show, people have a fit about it and many stars have to pay for personal trainers, expensive haircuts, etc just to keep their "job."

soupfordummies 4y ago

Gotta spend the money and ball out because it’s part of the look and the “brand”. You often see this in a different manner with pro athletes, sadly.

daenz 4y ago

>The record industry absolutely encourages this boom and bust lifestyle It's part of the overall appeal, and that says something about human nature. We like to see the reckless brilliant star careening into the stratosphere, knowing full well that it is unsustainable. It's the human embodiment of life and overabundant success.

kraussvonespy 4y ago

One can draw a very similar arc for lottery winners too. Most of them are broke and vagrant after ~2 years of luxury. There's no planning for tomorrow. The people most drawn to lotteries (and perhaps those drawn to the limelight too) are those that have the worst life and money skills. I think we all know people who live the feast or famine lifestyle of cruises and new TVs when the tax refund comes followed by 11 months of scraping by and complaining about their money situation.

ardit33 4y ago
Source? From what I see, is that 70% spend their money after 5 years, but don't just become 'homeless' / destitute. This seems some kind of overblown myth. The other study I found: "Statistically, 1% of lottery winners in the Florida study went bankrupt annually (Source: https://www.creditdonkey.com/lottery-winner-statistics.html https://www.creditdonkey.com/lottery-winner-statistics.html)"

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

I mean, I agree with you, but is it really surprising that rock stars aren't that interested in retirement planning? That is, the type of person that craves the spotlight and succeeds is also the type that is unlikely to max out their IRA contributions.

jlarocco 4y ago

> The result is young people who come from modest means, are showered with cash, and recieved no financial planning advice. You can say the same thing, although toned down a bit, about the college loan situation in the United States.

gruez 4y ago
Well, not really. Are college students taking their student loans and blowing it on "lavish lifestyles"? Or are they just trying to scrape by? My guess is that after non-discretionary expenses (eg. tuition and rent), there isn't much left, unlike for pop stars.
- jedmeyers 4y ago
  > Are college students taking their student loans and blowing it on "lavish lifestyles"? Colleges certainly do. There is no market economy in giving out loans but yet there are no price and quality controls on the receiving end of the money.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  College life in the US is a massive sink for those who aren't financially disciplined. Getting loans is easy for most who attended, including stipend loans for "living expenses" such as binge drinking on at least a weekly basis. The lifestyle certainly isn't lavish in the sense that pop star lifestyle is, but taking out many tens of thousands of dollars in an attempt to become a librarian (one friend of mine did just that) is just stupid, financially speaking. Short of having family bail you out or marrying a high income earner, you're a prisoner to loans that's cannot be discharged via bankruptcy.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > but taking out many tens of thousands of dollars in an attempt to become a librarian (one friend of mine did just that) is just stupid, financially speaking The problem is, society needs librarians and other "non-STEM" science - we're right now, for example in Germany [1], seeing with the cluelessness of politicians on Russia how utterly ignorant it was to cut funding for Eastern European studies back in 2005. And mind ya that's Europe where "student loans" aren't really a thing because we don't have absurd tuitions because the government pays for universities. We haven't found a way to incentivize people to take up these studies, and we absolutely need to, otherwise we are going to lose so much knowledge over the next decades. My s/o for example has a brilliant master's degree in art history, but funding for positions that match her experience is scarce to say the least, and covid didn't exactly help. She's currently working for the government to help fight the pandemic, but it's a sad waste of potential how many people like her are simply left behind. [1] https://www.pnn.de/wissenschaft/slawisten-kaempfen-fuer-ihre-disziplin-memorandum-gegen-abbau-der-slawistik/22346720.html https://www.pnn.de/wissenschaft/slawisten-kaempfen-fuer-ihre...

DoreenMichele 4y ago

My recollection is the NFL requires financial education for football players because most pro football careers are short-lived and it's the most money most of them will ever make, but they are young and tend to want to behave like this is their starting salary for their career and it will surely go up from here.

ghaff 4y ago
See also actors, perhaps especially TV actors, etc. They're young. They're in an environment of people spending money lavishly. And, as you say, they really want to believe that they'll be the statistical anomaly who will have a long lucrative career.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  It's also hard because some of those "lavish" expenses are a necessity if you are famous and make your money from things like looks. Very famous people may need security in various forms that ordinary people do not need (bullet proof limo, security guard, housing with security). Oprah has said if she wears the same outfit twice in two months on her show, people have a fit about it and many stars have to pay for personal trainers, expensive haircuts, etc just to keep their "job."