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Nvidia Grace CPU
- GIFtheory 4y agoInteresting that this has 7x the cores of a M1 Ultra, but only 25% more memory bandwidth. Those will be some thirsty cores!
- wmf 4y agoThe M1 memory bandwidth is mostly for the GPU but Grace does not include an (on-chip) GPU.
- my123 4y agohttps://twitter.com/benbajarin/status/1506296302971334664?s=21 https://twitter.com/benbajarin/status/1506296302971334664?s=... 396MB of on-chip cache… (198MB per die) That’s a significant part of it too.
- ZetaZero 4y agoM1 Ultra bandwidth is for CPU and GPU (800GB/s). Grace is just the CPU. Hopper, the GPU, has it's own memory and bandwidth (3 TB/sec).
- Teknoman117 4y agoThe CPU complex on the M1 series doesn't have anything close to the full bandwidth to memory that the SoC has (like, half). The only thing that can drive the full bandwidth is the GPU.
- oofbey 4y agoNVIDIA continues to vertically integrate their datacenter offerings. They bought mellanox to get infiniband. They tried to buy ARM - that didn't work. But they're building & bundling CPUs anyway. I guess when you're so far ahead on the compute side, it's all the peripherals that hold you back, so they're putting together a complete solution.
- DeepYogurt 4y agoNvidia's been making their own CPUs for a long time now. IIRC the first tegra was used in the Zune HD back in 2009. Hell they've even tried their hand at their own cpu core designs too. https://www.anandtech.com/show/7621/nvidia-reveals-first-details-about-project-denver-cpu-core https://www.anandtech.com/show/7621/nvidia-reveals-first-det... https://www.anandtech.com/show/7622/nvidia-tegra-k1/2 https://www.anandtech.com/show/7622/nvidia-tegra-k1/2
- 015a 4y agoMaybe even more importantly: Tegra powers the Nintendo Switch.
- ggreg84 4y agoWhich is (EDIT: NOT) the most widely sold console ever.
- fazzyfoo 4y agoNot by a long shot. PS2 and DS outsell by about 50 million units.
- shawnthye 4y ago
- nickelcitymario 4y ago"PS2? That can't possibly be right..." https://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/ https://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/ Holay molay.
- overtonwhy 4y agoIt was the most affordable DVD player. I think Sony owned patents on some DVD player tech? Same with PS4/5 and Blu Ray if I'm remembering correctly
- andrewstuart 4y agoThis leads me to wonder about the microprocessor shortage. So many computing devices such as Nvidia Jetson and Raspberry Pi are simply not available anywhere. I wonder what's he point of bringing out new products when existing products can't be purchased? Won't the new products also simply not be available?
- frozenport 4y agoWhat? They are sold out, not "can't be purchased".
- aftbit 4y agoWhat's the difference? If they are perpetually sold out, then they cannot be purchased.
- singlow 4y agoThere is constant production and deliveries being made, just no standing inventory.
- ekianjo 4y agoCan you enter a queue to purchase them? If not it's just a cat and mouse game to get one.
- singlow 4y agoAs a consumer you may not be able to, but volume customers and distributors are ordering them and waiting for them.
- structural 4y agoDirect retail / individual sales are always the least important and the first to get restricted amounts of supply so that large orders can be filled. There is a queue and lots of orders are moving through it, you personally just don't see this. Depending on the product, volume orders for high-end ICs are typically running between 52 and 72 weeks of lead time at the present, and it's been this way for many months now. So the orders that are getting filled today for parts were placed in early 2021 in most cases. This is generally very difficult for retailers, because they have had to come up with capital to have a year's worth of orders in the pipeline. So they've been having to stock fewer things -- only what they are absolutely sure will sell -- and can't use real-time sales data to estimate the next month's order. Welcome to the new normal, it'll be this way for at least another year or two, minimum (until new factories get built plus pre-pandemic levels of productivity, for the most part).
- rsynnott 4y ago> NVIDIA Grace Hopper Superchip Finally, a computer optimised for COBOL.
- luxuryballs 4y agoReading this makes a veteran software developer want to become a scientific researcher.
- bitwize 4y agoIKR? Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these...
- wmf 4y agoWe call it a "SuperPOD" now apparently.
- fennecfoxen 4y agohttps://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/dgx-superpod/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/dgx-superpod/
- stonogo 4y agoI don't think you'll have to imagine. It says on the box it's designed for HPC. and every supercomputer in the Top 500 has been a Beowulf cluster for years now.
- nlh 4y agoSlashdot flashbacks from 2001! Well played. Well played.
- melling 4y agoWay too late for me. I think adding machine learning to my toolbox at least gets me knowledgeable. https://www.kaggle.com/ https://www.kaggle.com/ When Jensen talks about Transformers, I know what he’s talking about because I follow a lot of talented people. https://www.kaggle.com/code/odins0n/jax-flax-tf-data-vision-transformers-tutorial https://www.kaggle.com/code/odins0n/jax-flax-tf-data-vision-...
- chippiewill 4y ago
- t0mas88 4y agoHow likely is it that one of AWS / GCP / Azure will deploy these? Nvidia has some relationships there for the A100 chips.
- lmeyerov 4y agoAWS+Azure (and I believe GCP) installed prev advances, and are having huge GPU shortages in general... so probably! An interesting angle here is these support partitioning even better than in the A100's. AFAICT, the cloud vendors are not yet providing partitioned access, so everyone just exhausts worldwide g4dn capacity for smaller jobs / devs / etc. But partitioning can solve that...
- ksec 4y agoAWS has their own CPU. Microsoft is an investor in Ampere, but I am not sure if they will make one themselves or simply buy from Ampere. Google has responded with faster x86 instances, still no hint of their own ARM CPU. But judging from the past I dont think they are going to go with Nvidia. That is only the CPU though, they might deploy it as Grace + Hopper config.
- ciphol 4y agoWith names like that, I assume that was the intention
- KaoruAoiShiho 4y agoPretty sure they all will, they all already have the past gens of these things and it's a simple upgrade.
- qbasic_forever 4y agoAmazon has at least two generations of their own homebrew ARM chip, the Graviton. They offer it for people to rent and use in AWS, and publicly stated they are rapidly transitioning their internal services to use it too. In my experience Graviton 2 is much cheaper than x86 for typical web workloads--I've seen costs cut by 20-40% with it.
- kcb 4y agoGiven how larger non-mobile chips are jumping to the LPDDR standard what is the point of having a separate DDR standard? Is there something about LPDDR5 that makes upgradable dimms not possible?
- ksec 4y agoThis is interesting. So without actually targeting a specific Cloud / server market for their CPU, which often ends with a chicken and egg problem with HyperScaler making their own Design or Chip. Nvidia manage to enter the Server CPU market leveraging their GPU and AI workload. All of a sudden there is real choice of ARM CPU on Server. ( What will happen to Ampere ? ) The LPDDR5X used here will also be the first to come with ECC. And they can cross sell those with Nvidia's ConnectX-7 SmartNICs. Hopefully it will be price competitive. Edit: Rather than downvoting may be explain why or what you disagree with ?
- messe 4y agoI wonder if Apple also intends to introduce ECC LPDDR5 on the Mac Pro. Other than additional expansion, I’m struggling to see what else they can add to distinguish it from the Mac Studio.
- MBCook 4y agoMore cores and more RAM is really kind of it. I guess PCIe but I’m kind of wondering if they’ll do that.
- lostlogin 4y agoAnd more worryingly, will a GPU function in the slots. The questions everyone has, Ram and GPU.
- simondotau 4y agoI think support for GPU compute has reasonable odds. I'd place worse odds on GPU support for back-end graphics rendering or display driving. And of course support for any Nvidia card would continue to have very poor odds. Heck, we're talking about a company that put an A13 into a monitor. I wouldn't put it past Apple to put an M2 Ultra onto MPX modules and have that GPU/ANE compute performance automatically available through existing APIs. (Would be a great way to bin M2 Ultra chips with a failed CPU core.)
- 4y ago
- donkeydoug 4y agosoooo... would something like this be a viable option for a non-mac desktop similar to the 'mac studio' ? def seems targeted at the cloud vendors and large labs... but it'd be great to have a box like that which could run linux.
- fulafel 4y agoAs long as your application workload is a good match for the 144 ARM cores.
- my123 4y agoIt’s a server CPU that runs any OS really (Arm SystemReady with UEFI and ACPI). However, the price tag will be too high for a lot of desktop buyers. (There are smaller Tegras around though)
- oneplane 4y agoIt probably won't run Windows. But other operating systems, probably yes. Maybe Microsoft comes up with some sort of Windows Server DC Arm edition in the future so they can join in as well.
- my123 4y agoModern Tegras can boot arm64 Windows. But yeah without a licensable Windows Server arm64 SKU, practical uses are quite limited.
- opencl 4y agoIt's viable in the sense that you can just stick a server motherboard inside of a desktop case. It certainly won't be cheap though. This has been done as a commercial product with the Ampere ARM server chips. The base model is about $8k. https://store.avantek.co.uk/arm-desktops.html https://store.avantek.co.uk/arm-desktops.html
- wmf 4y agoNvidia Orin would be a better fit for an ARM desktop/laptop but Nvidia seemingly isn't interested in that market.
- valine 4y agoAnyone have a sense for how much these will cost? Is this more akin to the Mac Studio that costs 4k or an A100 gpu that costs upward of 30k? Looking for an order of magnitude.
- naikrovek 4y agoThis is definitely not a consumer-grade device, like a Mac Studio.
- Hamuko 4y agoConsidering that the URL is "/data-center/grace-cpu/", assume much more than a Mac Studio.
- IshKebab 4y agoProbably on the order of $100k.
- valine 4y agoThat would be a real shame. I really want someone to make a high core count ARM processor in the price range of an AMD threadripper that can work with Nvidia gpus.
- oofbey 4y agoThe top-end datacenter GPUs have been slowly creeping up from $5k a few generations back to about $15k for the A100's now. So this one will probably continue the trend, probably to $20k or maybe $30k but probably not beyond that.
- marcodiego 4y agoTime to sell intel shares?
- bloodyplonker22 4y agoThat time was years and years ago. If you're just thinking about it now, you're already in a world of pain.
- didip 4y agoheh, does Intel have any chance to catch up? They fell so far behind.
- qbasic_forever 4y agoI really don't see what they can do. It seems like in the last year they pivoted hard into "ok we'll build chips in the US again!", but it's going to be years and years before any of that pays off or even materializes. The only announcements I've heard from them are just regular "Here's the CEO of Intel telling us how he's going to fix Intel" PR blurbs and nothing else. Best case maybe they just position themselves to be bought by Nvidia...
- wmf 4y agoThere are some hints that they are redesigning some server processors to double core count but that may not be visible for 2-3 years. Also keep in mind that Intel has 75% server market share and is only losing ~5 points per year.
- hughrr 4y agoNo. Intel worked out it needs to open its production capacity to other vendors. They will end up another ARM fab with a legacy x86-64 business strapped on the side. That's probably not a bad place to be really. I think x86-64 will fizzle out in about a decade.
- astrange 4y agoI don't feel like ARM has serious technical advantages over x86-64 as an ISA, although it is cleaner and has more security features which is good. Isn't the main advantage just that it's easier to license ARM? Once enough patents expire all ISAs are eventually equal, I'd think.
- hughrr 4y agoSpend some time looking at optimised compiler output on godbolt on both architectures. ARM has some really nice tricks up its sleeves. I’ve been using ARM since about 1992 though so I may be biased.
- cjensen 4y ago"Grace?" After 13 microarchitectures given the last names of historical figures, it's really weird to use someone's first name. Interesting that Anandtech and Wikipedia are both calling it Hopper. What on Earth are the marketing bros thinking?
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- fay59 4y agoThey also made the “Hopper” architecture to complement it.
- thereddaikon 4y agoThe GPU is Hopper, which is in line with their naming scheme up till now. The CPU is call Grace. Clearly they are planning to continue the tradition of naming their architectures after famous scientists and the CPUs will take on the first name while the GPU will continue to use last. So expect a future Einstein GPU to come with a matching Albert CPU.
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- 20220322-beans 4y agoWhat are people's experience of developing with NVIDIA? I know what Linus thinks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ
- nl 4y agoNvidia's AI APIs are well documented and supported. That's why everyone uses them.
- dekhn 4y agoover the past two decades that I've used nvidia products for opengl and other related things, my experince has been largely positive although I find installing both the dev packages and the runtimes I need to be cumbersome.
- jlokier 4y agoI had a laptop with NVIDIA GPU that crashed Xorg and had to be rebooted whenever Firefox opened WebGL. Just to complement the positive sibling comments :-)
- neurostimulant 4y agoAre you using nvidia's driver or nouveau?
- dsign 4y agoI like CUDA, that stuff works and is rewarding to use. The only problem is the tons and tons of hoops one must jump to use it in servers. Because a server with a GPU is so expensive, you can't just rent one and have it running 24x7 if you don't have work for it to do, so you need a serverless or auto-scaling deployment. That increases your development workload. Then there is the matter of renting a server with GPU; that's still a bit of a specialty offering. Until the other day, even major cloud providers (i.e. AWS and Google) offered GPUs only in certain datacenters.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
- donatj 4y agoMaybe it's just me, but it's just cool to see the CPU market competitive again for the first time since the late 90s.
- sedatk 4y agoYou're not alone.
- andrewstuart 4y agoI wonder why Intel never had a really good go at GPU's? It seems strange, given the demand.
- bduerst 4y agoIntel also announced a new GPU offering, supposed to drop in 8 days: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/visual-technology/arc-discrete-graphics.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-tec... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Arc
- tyrfing 4y agoDiscrete GPUs have historically been a relatively small and volatile niche compared to CPUs, it's only in the last few years that the market has seen extreme growth. edit: the market pretty much went from gaming as the primary pillar to gaming + HPC, which makes it far more attractive since you'd expect it to be much less cyclical and less price sensitive. Raja Koduri was hired in late 2017 to work on GPU related stuff, and it seems like the first major products from that effort will be coming out this year. That said, they've obviously had a lot of failures in the acelerator and graphics area (consider Altera) and Koduri has stated on Twitter that Gelsinger is the first CEO to actually treat graphics/HPC as a priority.
- michaelt 4y agoCUDA came out in 2007. Wikipedia puts the start of the GPU-driven 'deep learning revolution' in 2012 [1] and people have been putting GPUs into their supercomputers since 2012 as well [2] I find it strange that Intel has basically just left the entire market to nvidia, despite having 10-15 years warning and running their own GPU division the whole time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_learning#Deep_learning_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_learning#Deep_learning_re... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(supercomputer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(supercomputer)
- bullen 4y agoI think we're all missing the forest because all the cores are in the way: The contention on that memory means that only segregated non-cooporative as in not "joint parallel on the same memory atomic" will scale on this hardware better than on a 4-core vanilla Xeon from 2018 per watt. So you might aswell buy 20 Jetson Nanos and connect them over the network. Let that sink in... NOTHING is improving at all... there is ZERO point to any hardware that CAN be released for eternity at this point. Time to learn JavaSE and roll up those sleves... electricity prices are never coming down (in real terms) no matter how high the interest rate. As for GPUs, I'm calling it now: nothing will dethrone the 1030 in Gflops/W in general and below 30W in particular; DDR4 or DDR5, doesn't matter. Memory is the latency bottleneck since DDR3. Please respect the comment on downvote principle. Otherwise you don't really exist; in a quantum physical way anyway.
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- simulate-me 4y agoPerformance per watt isn’t so useful for a GPU. People training ML algorithms would gladly increase power consumption if they could train larger models or train models faster.
- bullen 4y agoAnd that's exactly my point: they can't. Power does not solve contention and latency! It's over, permanently... (or atleast until some photon/quantum alternative, which honestly we don't have the energy to imagine, let alone manufacture, anymore)
- cma 4y agoAren't you are ignoring use cases where all cores read shared data, but rarely contentiously write to it. You should get much more read bandwidth and latency than over a network.
- bullen 4y ago
- userbinator 4y agoWho bets that the amount of detailed information they'll officially[1] release about it is "none" or close to that? I still think of Torvalds' classic video whenever I hear about nVidia. The last thing the world needs is more proprietary crap that's probably destined to become un-reusable e-waste in less than a decade. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30550028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30550028