7 ms·

Not to mention if you build your own PC you can upgrade the parts as and when, unlike with the new Mac where you'll eventually just be replacing the whole thing

Not to mention if you build your own PC you can upgrade the parts as and when, unlike with the new Mac where you'll eventually just be replacing the whole thing.

ricardobeat 5y ago
Since the context here is using these machines for work, a mid-level engineer will easily cost an extra $1000* in his own time to put that together :) EDIT: I’m quite confident this is not at all an exaggeration. Unless you have put together PCs for a living. $100/h (total employment cost, not just salary), 1-2 hours of actual build & setup, 8 more hours of speccing out parts, buying, taking delivery, installing stuff and messing around with windows/Linux (I’ve probably spent 40 hours+ in the past couple years just fixing stuff in my windows gaming pc. At least 1 of those looking for a cabled keyboard so I could boot it up the first time, ended up having a friend drive over with his :D)
- gtvwill 5y ago
  1000 bucks for 45 mins work? Maybe 1.5hrs tops? I didn't realise their wage was >500 an hour?
  - Normal_gaussian 5y ago
    To be fair here, there is more to it than just assembly. You have to spec out the parts, ensuring compatibility. Manage multiple orders and deliveries. Assemble it. Install drivers/configuration specific packages. All of these things are easier today than ten or twenty years ago - but assigning it to a random mid-level engineer and I'd set my project management gamble on half a day for the busiest, most focused engineers least likely to take the time to fuss over specs, or one day for the majority. ofc. to get to $1000 for that they'd still have to be on $230k to $460k.
    - fouc 5y ago
      Given that the last time I put together a PC computer was 2006, it'd probably take me DAYS to spec out a machine because of all the rabbit holes I'd be exploring, esp with all the advances in computer tech.
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      PC part picker will do the heavy lifting for you. There are also management tools that will let you install software bundles easily, no real extra time investment.
      - asoneth 5y ago
        Just knowing about services like PC Part Picker and the management tools you mention requires time and expertise that people generally do not have before they build a computer, so "no real extra time investment" may only be true for someone who can amortize those upfront costs across many builds. In my case I have built a couple PCs before, but it was so long ago that I'd have to re-learn which retailers are trustworthy, what the new connection standards are these days, etc. It's just not worth it to me to spend a dozen hours learning, specing, ordering, assembling, installing, configuring, etc to save a few hundred bucks.
  - swiftcoder 5y ago
    It's a lot closer than you might think. A senior engineer in the Bay can easily pull down $400k/year in total comp, which is $200/hour. The rule of thumb I've always heard is that a fully-loaded engineer costs roughly 2x their comp in taxes/insurance/facilities/etc. When someone costs the company north of $3k/day, it's cheaper all round to just plonk a brand new $6k MacBook Pro on their desk if they have a hardware issue.
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    It would take me over 1.5 hours just to figure out what parts I need to buy.
momothereal 5y ago
I believed that until I realized I couldn't individually upgrade my CPU or RAM because I have a mobo with LGA1150 socket and only supports DDR3 (and it's only 6 years old). So eventually you still have to "replace everything" to upgrade a PC.
- mixedCase 5y ago
  AMD has never disappointed me in this regard.
  - doublepg23 5y ago
    Zen 4 will being using a new socket, I wouldn’t go buying a Zen 3 with plans to upgrade the CPU down the road.
    - zamalek 5y ago
      8 years isn't a bad run for a CPU socket.
    - arvinsim 5y ago
      This is already known for a long time already. You would have to actively choose to not listen to AMD news to not know.
      - doublepg23 5y ago
        I understand just making sure no one jumps on Zen 3 now with a promise of forwards compatibility.
    - kllrnohj 5y ago
      Well, you should still get one last upgrade out of an AM4 socket in the form of the upcoming 5800X3D ( https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d )
- Macha 5y ago

Not to mention if you build your own PC you can upgrade the parts as and when, unlike with the new Mac where you'll eventually just be replacing the whole thing.

ricardobeat 5y ago

Since the context here is using these machines for work, a mid-level engineer will easily cost an extra $1000* in his own time to put that together :) EDIT: I’m quite confident this is not at all an exaggeration. Unless you have put together PCs for a living. $100/h (total employment cost, not just salary), 1-2 hours of actual build & setup, 8 more hours of speccing out parts, buying, taking delivery, installing stuff and messing around with windows/Linux (I’ve probably spent 40 hours+ in the past couple years just fixing stuff in my windows gaming pc. At least 1 of those looking for a cabled keyboard so I could boot it up the first time, ended up having a friend drive over with his :D)

gtvwill 5y ago
1000 bucks for 45 mins work? Maybe 1.5hrs tops? I didn't realise their wage was >500 an hour?
- Normal_gaussian 5y ago
  To be fair here, there is more to it than just assembly. You have to spec out the parts, ensuring compatibility. Manage multiple orders and deliveries. Assemble it. Install drivers/configuration specific packages. All of these things are easier today than ten or twenty years ago - but assigning it to a random mid-level engineer and I'd set my project management gamble on half a day for the busiest, most focused engineers least likely to take the time to fuss over specs, or one day for the majority. ofc. to get to $1000 for that they'd still have to be on $230k to $460k.
  - fouc 5y ago
    Given that the last time I put together a PC computer was 2006, it'd probably take me DAYS to spec out a machine because of all the rabbit holes I'd be exploring, esp with all the advances in computer tech.
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    PC part picker will do the heavy lifting for you. There are also management tools that will let you install software bundles easily, no real extra time investment.
    - asoneth 5y ago
      Just knowing about services like PC Part Picker and the management tools you mention requires time and expertise that people generally do not have before they build a computer, so "no real extra time investment" may only be true for someone who can amortize those upfront costs across many builds. In my case I have built a couple PCs before, but it was so long ago that I'd have to re-learn which retailers are trustworthy, what the new connection standards are these days, etc. It's just not worth it to me to spend a dozen hours learning, specing, ordering, assembling, installing, configuring, etc to save a few hundred bucks.
- swiftcoder 5y ago
  It's a lot closer than you might think. A senior engineer in the Bay can easily pull down $400k/year in total comp, which is $200/hour. The rule of thumb I've always heard is that a fully-loaded engineer costs roughly 2x their comp in taxes/insurance/facilities/etc. When someone costs the company north of $3k/day, it's cheaper all round to just plonk a brand new $6k MacBook Pro on their desk if they have a hardware issue.
- jtbayly 5y ago
  It would take me over 1.5 hours just to figure out what parts I need to buy.

momothereal 5y ago

I believed that until I realized I couldn't individually upgrade my CPU or RAM because I have a mobo with LGA1150 socket and only supports DDR3 (and it's only 6 years old). So eventually you still have to "replace everything" to upgrade a PC.

mixedCase 5y ago
AMD has never disappointed me in this regard.
- doublepg23 5y ago
  Zen 4 will being using a new socket, I wouldn’t go buying a Zen 3 with plans to upgrade the CPU down the road.
  - zamalek 5y ago
    8 years isn't a bad run for a CPU socket.
  - arvinsim 5y ago
    This is already known for a long time already. You would have to actively choose to not listen to AMD news to not know.
    - doublepg23 5y ago
      I understand just making sure no one jumps on Zen 3 now with a promise of forwards compatibility.
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    Well, you should still get one last upgrade out of an AM4 socket in the form of the upcoming 5800X3D ( https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d )
Macha 5y ago