7 ms·

You’re entirely right; the sole reason for Gemini is to exclude people. It’s more than solutionism, it’s elitism. It’s some people hiding their content to the q

by barakm 5y ago

You’re entirely right; the sole reason for Gemini is to exclude people. It’s more than solutionism, it’s elitism. It’s some people hiding their content to the quote-unquote “cool” kids and claiming it’s a “better” solution just because the primary clients are terminal based. Which is why nothing of value is lost by ignoring it, IMO.

ygpa 5y ago
Gemini really doesn't exclude anyone. It's not exactly difficult to use a Gemini to HTTP proxy and you don't lose anything except for access to some weird experiments with the client certificate features. I mean, ignore away, but I don't think its fair to say that the sole reason for Gemini is exclusion of people.
DarylZero 5y ago
Lagrange isn't terminal based.
- zppln 5y ago
  And neither is Ariane for Android.
adamrezich 5y ago
> It’s more than solutionism, it’s elitism. > elitism (n.) the advocacy or existence of an elite as a dominating element in a system or society. where does this idea come from? why can't people make their own spaces in their own corners of the Internet without being considered "elitist?" is HN "elitist"? 4chan? Usenet? ZeroNet?
- wmf 5y ago
  Text-only content is elitist ever since the masses started expecting everything to be video or at least have some stock images.
  - piaste 5y ago
    Pictura est laicorum literatura, 1000 years later.
  - lvass 5y ago
    Healthy foods are elitist ever since the masses started expecting everything to be sugary, so let's not eat healthy.
- chayleaf 5y ago
  the second definition you didn't list is "the attitude or behavior of a person or group who regard themselves as belonging to an elite", which is the meaning used in this case. I don't agree that's elitism either, just wanted to point this out
- Planktonne 5y ago
  > is HN "elitist"? 4chan? Usenet? ZeroNet? Yes; very much so, particularly those first two which are widely known for it.
brimble 5y ago
Eh, it would be really nice to have back a Web where clicking a link couldn't result in loading a page that's tracking your mouse movements while you're on it. IOW a web that's safe and user-controlled, again. Just a damn hypertext document browser that doesn't also bundle a spying suite and hand control of it to anyone by default. We should have realized when people started putting up troll pages that broke your computer simply by using JavaScript's normal capabilities, that we needed to seriously rethink including a scripting language with all kinds of ability to act against the user just because they followed a link, as part of the Web. We didn't do that, though, and instead we got gestures at everything. I'm not sure Gemini's the right solution, but that would be a nice thing to have, which we do not have now.
- square_usual 5y ago
  > Eh, it would be really nice to have back a Web where clicking a link couldn't result in loading a page that's tracking your mouse movements while you're on it. It's still possible if you use uBlock, or enable JS only when you need it. You don't have to throw the baby (gemtext missing inline links!) out with the bathwater.
  - bscphil 5y ago
    I think abut it kind of like this (as someone who has never used Gemini): There are all sorts of uses for cryptographic proofs; e.g. you can sign a document and prove that you were the one who signed it, or you can do a bunch of double-SHA hashes and prove ownership of a Bitcoin, you can prove via a SSL certificate that the content that claims to come from somedomain.example actually does, etc etc. But there's no way, via currently existing protocols, to deliver a document with a proof that the document does not contain code designed to track the user or that the document will display properly without running arbitrary scripts. Gemini is bikeshedding, yes. But it solves this social problem - a problem of expectations. You can't make a webpage with tracking scripts and deliver it over Gemeni because there's no point. No one who received the document would actually execute any of the scripts. So Gemini succeeds at creating a little insular community where tracking and web analytics are not just forbidden, but impossible.
LAC-Tech 5y ago
The problem with not gatekeeping is that you get all these people you don't want coming through your open gate. Not every single thing has to include every single person on earth. If people want to use Gemini good for them.
pedrogpimenta 5y ago
Yet you are clearly not ignoring it.
zppln 5y ago
Meh, everyone doesn't have to cater to the lowest common denominator all the time. Besides, I can't say I find the geminispehere very elitist or excluding after browsing it on and off for a year or so. There are no gatekeepers apart from accepting the technology itself.

by barakm 5y ago

ygpa 5y ago

Gemini really doesn't exclude anyone. It's not exactly difficult to use a Gemini to HTTP proxy and you don't lose anything except for access to some weird experiments with the client certificate features. I mean, ignore away, but I don't think its fair to say that the sole reason for Gemini is exclusion of people.

DarylZero 5y ago

Lagrange isn't terminal based.

zppln 5y ago
And neither is Ariane for Android.

adamrezich 5y ago

> It’s more than solutionism, it’s elitism. > elitism (n.) the advocacy or existence of an elite as a dominating element in a system or society. where does this idea come from? why can't people make their own spaces in their own corners of the Internet without being considered "elitist?" is HN "elitist"? 4chan? Usenet? ZeroNet?

wmf 5y ago
Text-only content is elitist ever since the masses started expecting everything to be video or at least have some stock images.
- piaste 5y ago
  Pictura est laicorum literatura, 1000 years later.
- lvass 5y ago
  Healthy foods are elitist ever since the masses started expecting everything to be sugary, so let's not eat healthy.
chayleaf 5y ago
the second definition you didn't list is "the attitude or behavior of a person or group who regard themselves as belonging to an elite", which is the meaning used in this case. I don't agree that's elitism either, just wanted to point this out
Planktonne 5y ago
> is HN "elitist"? 4chan? Usenet? ZeroNet? Yes; very much so, particularly those first two which are widely known for it.

brimble 5y ago

Eh, it would be really nice to have back a Web where clicking a link couldn't result in loading a page that's tracking your mouse movements while you're on it. IOW a web that's safe and user-controlled, again. Just a damn hypertext document browser that doesn't also bundle a spying suite and hand control of it to anyone by default. We should have realized when people started putting up troll pages that broke your computer simply by using JavaScript's normal capabilities, that we needed to seriously rethink including a scripting language with all kinds of ability to act against the user just because they followed a link, as part of the Web. We didn't do that, though, and instead we got gestures at everything. I'm not sure Gemini's the right solution, but that would be a nice thing to have, which we do not have now.

square_usual 5y ago
> Eh, it would be really nice to have back a Web where clicking a link couldn't result in loading a page that's tracking your mouse movements while you're on it. It's still possible if you use uBlock, or enable JS only when you need it. You don't have to throw the baby (gemtext missing inline links!) out with the bathwater.
- bscphil 5y ago
  I think abut it kind of like this (as someone who has never used Gemini): There are all sorts of uses for cryptographic proofs; e.g. you can sign a document and prove that you were the one who signed it, or you can do a bunch of double-SHA hashes and prove ownership of a Bitcoin, you can prove via a SSL certificate that the content that claims to come from somedomain.example actually does, etc etc. But there's no way, via currently existing protocols, to deliver a document with a proof that the document does not contain code designed to track the user or that the document will display properly without running arbitrary scripts. Gemini is bikeshedding, yes. But it solves this social problem - a problem of expectations. You can't make a webpage with tracking scripts and deliver it over Gemeni because there's no point. No one who received the document would actually execute any of the scripts. So Gemini succeeds at creating a little insular community where tracking and web analytics are not just forbidden, but impossible.

LAC-Tech 5y ago

The problem with not gatekeeping is that you get all these people you don't want coming through your open gate. Not every single thing has to include every single person on earth. If people want to use Gemini good for them.

pedrogpimenta 5y ago

Yet you are clearly not ignoring it.

zppln 5y ago

Meh, everyone doesn't have to cater to the lowest common denominator all the time. Besides, I can't say I find the geminispehere very elitist or excluding after browsing it on and off for a year or so. There are no gatekeepers apart from accepting the technology itself.