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> Don't ever hire someone with recent Norton experience I their resume. This is pretty ridiculous. I worked there and and there is much more going on internall

> Don't ever hire someone with recent Norton experience I their resume. This is pretty ridiculous. I worked there and and there is much more going on internally than writing malware-like software. By the time I left they still had pretty decent engineers just trying to find a job in a better company, like me. These sort of decisions don't come from Software Engineers and management there is known to be pretty shitty. Also, it's not like they maliciously inserted this thing to mine crypto for Norton itself. Whatever your computer mines is yours (still a bad idea though IMO) https://community.norton.com/en/blogs/product-service-announcements/introducing-norton-crypto https://community.norton.com/en/blogs/product-service-announ...

Barrin92 5y ago
>and there is much more going on internally than writing malware-like software that sentence doesn't exactly inspire confidence lol. So you're saying people are aware of the fact that they're partially writing malware like software and that's.. accepted? That's like an accounting firm saying "don't judge us like that, there's much more going on here than the money laundering"
deleted 5y ago
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VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
> it's not like they maliciously inserted this thing to mine crypto for Norton itself. Whatever your computer mines is yours It says you're joined to a mining pool. Is this a Norton 360-only mining pool? If so, I'm guessing they have their own hardware participating in the pool as well. And if that's the case, you're helping them mine for blocks just as much as you're helping yourself. But they don't say that anywhere so who knows. edit: and it also appears that they're taking 15% of whatever you mine. So they've apparently: * Set up a Norton-only pool * Joined all their customers computers to it * Collect 360 subscription fees to participate * Collect 15% of everything their customers mine * Participate in the pool themselves, further benefiting from their customers mining activity And what happens to the unclaimed/unused wallets that they're holding for their oblivious customers in "the cloud"? If I cared enough about this to read the fine print I bet I'll find that they're reserving the right to empty those after a certain period of inactivity.
- duskwuff 5y ago
  > And what happens to the unclaimed/unused wallets that they're holding for their oblivious customers in "the cloud"? For that matter: what happens when Norton gets hacked and loses the cryptocurrency they've been holding for their users?
- random314 5y ago
  And who pays the customers electricity bill? They are simply stealing your electricity.
  - yosito 5y ago
    Not just your electricity, but also your processor time, which you likely intended to use for something else.
  - TingPing 5y ago
    The ethereum would pay for it, if the user knew how to actually cash out.
    - random314 5y ago
      Depending on your power billing rates, mining ethereum might not be profitable at all for the user.
- perennate 5y ago
  > oblivious customers Users must explicitly agree to a Norton Crypto License and Services Agreement and activate mining before the software starts mining Ethereum. It is unlikely there would be any oblivious customers. See https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v138388461 https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v...
  - cogman10 5y ago
    Bundling software like this is a malware move. I don't care if they give you the option to not install it, it's no better than the installers that add malware toolbars to your browser if you don't catch the 8th level of dropdowns you need to navigate to not install it. When I install a pdf reader, I expect a pdf reader and nothing else. When I install anti virus software, that's the only thing I want.
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kjaftaedi 5y ago
>Also, it's not like they maliciously inserted this thing to mine crypto for Norton itself. No, but it is still malicious in the sense that it: (1) does not inform the user or ask for consent (2) seemingly does not offer an option to disable it While I want to apply Occam's razor here, you'd have to assume all of the people that worked on this were negligent or unqualified... when sadly the more likely scenario is that these decisions were most likely intentional.
- perennate 5y ago
  > (1) does not inform the user or ask for consent > (2) seemingly does not offer an option to disable it Where do you see this? As far as I can tell, it is off by default, and the user must explicitly enable it (consent) to use the miner. See e.g. https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v138388461 https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v... which mentions a License and Services Agreement that must be accepted before the miner can be used at all, and clearly says the mining status can be toggled between Active and Paused.
  - kjaftaedi 5y ago
    I got the information from the thread linked in the headline. (scroll to their follow up posts) I don't have Norton, so I am unable to test this myself.
Ansil849 5y ago
> These sort of decisions don't come from Software Engineers and management there is known to be pretty shitty. No, but the decision to work and continue working there does.
- jodrellblank 5y ago
  So you're saying you would trust this hypothetical ex-Norton engineer resume more, because they made the decision not to continue working there?
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    I'm saying no such thing. What I am saying is that I find this 'we're just code monkeys, we don't enact policy' retort I see so frequently here incredibly annoying, because it acts like programmers are not human beings with agency in a market with typically extreme mobility.
    - jodrellblank 5y ago
      If they're trying to leave and can't leave because nobody will hire them because they work(ed) somewhere bad (that's the original comment in this thread; never trusting a Norton employee's resume) and you're also criticising them for "choosing" to continue working there, what chance does that give them? That isn't having agency in a market. If "the decision to work and continue working there" is a bad one, that makes the decision to leave a better decision, yes? And the person who makes such a decision, a better person. And if you want to hire people who have agency and act with integrity, someone who left Norton is a slightly higher signal than someone who never heard of Norton, isn't it?
      - Stevvo 5y ago
        parent comment is once again saying no such thing. The root comment of this thread are not the words of that comment.
        5y ago

Barrin92 5y ago

>and there is much more going on internally than writing malware-like software that sentence doesn't exactly inspire confidence lol. So you're saying people are aware of the fact that they're partially writing malware like software and that's.. accepted? That's like an accounting firm saying "don't judge us like that, there's much more going on here than the money laundering"

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

VWWHFSfQ 5y ago

> it's not like they maliciously inserted this thing to mine crypto for Norton itself. Whatever your computer mines is yours It says you're joined to a mining pool. Is this a Norton 360-only mining pool? If so, I'm guessing they have their own hardware participating in the pool as well. And if that's the case, you're helping them mine for blocks just as much as you're helping yourself. But they don't say that anywhere so who knows. edit: and it also appears that they're taking 15% of whatever you mine. So they've apparently: * Set up a Norton-only pool * Joined all their customers computers to it * Collect 360 subscription fees to participate * Collect 15% of everything their customers mine * Participate in the pool themselves, further benefiting from their customers mining activity And what happens to the unclaimed/unused wallets that they're holding for their oblivious customers in "the cloud"? If I cared enough about this to read the fine print I bet I'll find that they're reserving the right to empty those after a certain period of inactivity.

duskwuff 5y ago
> And what happens to the unclaimed/unused wallets that they're holding for their oblivious customers in "the cloud"? For that matter: what happens when Norton gets hacked and loses the cryptocurrency they've been holding for their users?
random314 5y ago
And who pays the customers electricity bill? They are simply stealing your electricity.
- yosito 5y ago
  Not just your electricity, but also your processor time, which you likely intended to use for something else.
- TingPing 5y ago
  The ethereum would pay for it, if the user knew how to actually cash out.
  - random314 5y ago
    Depending on your power billing rates, mining ethereum might not be profitable at all for the user.
perennate 5y ago
> oblivious customers Users must explicitly agree to a Norton Crypto License and Services Agreement and activate mining before the software starts mining Ethereum. It is unlikely there would be any oblivious customers. See https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v138388461 https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v...
- cogman10 5y ago
  Bundling software like this is a malware move. I don't care if they give you the option to not install it, it's no better than the installers that add malware toolbars to your browser if you don't catch the 8th level of dropdowns you need to navigate to not install it. When I install a pdf reader, I expect a pdf reader and nothing else. When I install anti virus software, that's the only thing I want.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kjaftaedi 5y ago

>Also, it's not like they maliciously inserted this thing to mine crypto for Norton itself. No, but it is still malicious in the sense that it: (1) does not inform the user or ask for consent (2) seemingly does not offer an option to disable it While I want to apply Occam's razor here, you'd have to assume all of the people that worked on this were negligent or unqualified... when sadly the more likely scenario is that these decisions were most likely intentional.

perennate 5y ago
> (1) does not inform the user or ask for consent > (2) seemingly does not offer an option to disable it Where do you see this? As far as I can tell, it is off by default, and the user must explicitly enable it (consent) to use the miner. See e.g. https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v138388461 https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v... which mentions a License and Services Agreement that must be accepted before the miner can be used at all, and clearly says the mining status can be toggled between Active and Paused.
- kjaftaedi 5y ago
  I got the information from the thread linked in the headline. (scroll to their follow up posts) I don't have Norton, so I am unable to test this myself.

Ansil849 5y ago

> These sort of decisions don't come from Software Engineers and management there is known to be pretty shitty. No, but the decision to work and continue working there does.

jodrellblank 5y ago
So you're saying you would trust this hypothetical ex-Norton engineer resume more, because they made the decision not to continue working there?
- Ansil849 5y ago
  I'm saying no such thing. What I am saying is that I find this 'we're just code monkeys, we don't enact policy' retort I see so frequently here incredibly annoying, because it acts like programmers are not human beings with agency in a market with typically extreme mobility.
  - jodrellblank 5y ago
    If they're trying to leave and can't leave because nobody will hire them because they work(ed) somewhere bad (that's the original comment in this thread; never trusting a Norton employee's resume) and you're also criticising them for "choosing" to continue working there, what chance does that give them? That isn't having agency in a market. If "the decision to work and continue working there" is a bad one, that makes the decision to leave a better decision, yes? And the person who makes such a decision, a better person. And if you want to hire people who have agency and act with integrity, someone who left Norton is a slightly higher signal than someone who never heard of Norton, isn't it?
    - Stevvo 5y ago
      parent comment is once again saying no such thing. The root comment of this thread are not the words of that comment.
      - 5y ago