5 ms·

It's so sad when Twitch streamers with 10,000+ Live viewers are forced to reboot for a Windows update

arendtio 5y ago
Imagine, after months of work and sleepless nights the day has come, you have to submit your thesis. But during the final corrections your Windows decides to shutdown and update the system for an uncertain duration. It wasn't my thesis, but I was part of the people that helped to solved the resulting mess (the update took 4 hours and the deadline was 2PM). That day I learned to never rely on Microsoft ever again.
baq 5y ago
do you update your linux kernel on the desktop without rebooting?
- mschuster91 5y ago
  I update my Linux systems manually on my schedule, my computer does not decide it wants a reboot right fucking now.
- commoner 5y ago
  Linux has no mandatory automatic updates in the first place,* so this situation doesn't ever need to take place. To answer your question, it is possible to update the Linux kernel without rebooting, but you may run into some issues with kernel modules that would be solved with a reboot. * Edit: After writing this comment, I remembered that Snaps on Linux have automatic updates that can only be deferred up to 90 days. However, Snaps don't handle Linux kernel updates. I don't recommend using Snaps.
  - NDizzle 5y ago
    Since when does Windows have mandatory automatic updates?!
    - nkrisc 5y ago
      I’ve had Windows spontaneously restart on me while I’m doing stuff, to apply an update. If it was somehow my fault, I have no idea what caused it, and so it’s Microsoft’s fault after all since it wasn’t clear.
      - BurningPenguin 5y ago
        My computer once decided that 1 A.M. in the night is a great time to automagically boot up and do updates. I had to physically turn off power, so it wasn't able to do that. Even disabling that feature in the bios didn't work for some reason. I still don't know how the machine was able to do it. Fast boot wasn't even enabled, because it caused other problems when it was. It stopped happening someday, but it's still haunting me. It doesn't really build trust.
        jraph 5y ago
        On Linux, one can instruct the BIOS to turn on the computer at a specified time after suspend or even power off using rtcwake [1]. I don't know many things about Windows but I guess they are doing something like this. [1] https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rtcwake.8.html https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rtcwake.8.html
        BurningPenguin 5y ago
        Yeah, that's what i tried to turn off in the BIOS. It's actually one of the earlier UEFI enabled ones from MSI. I guess it's a bit bugged. It also tends to freeze when i have it open for too long. There are no updates anymore and i don't get a decent CPU for it, so i'll probably upgrade it soon-ish. Just not sure if i'll get MSI again or maybe try something else this time. Asus seems neat.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Since Windows 10. It is possible to disable it, but Microsoft fought very hard to prevent people from doing so by putting up a ton of road blocks. It was a loudly decried 'feature'.
  - bogwog 5y ago
    > Edit: After writing this comment, I remembered that Snaps on Linux have automatic updates that can only be deferred up to 90 days. However, Snaps don't handle Linux kernel updates. I don't recommend using Snaps. I didn't even know that. It's one more item on the list of reasons to not use Snaps.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Right? It's like Canonical looked at all the hate Windows was getting and decided they wanted in on that action. Snaps can kiss my ass.
- thraxil 5y ago
  Yes. See Ubuntu Livepatch.
  - emj 5y ago
    I do not use it on the desktop so I have no idea if that works, I would guess that binary graphics drivers are unpatchable with live patch. I've patched the kernel on servers like that for a long time now, I recommended it warmly no problems so far!
    - thraxil 5y ago
      It works the same on desktop as servers. I don't run anything that requires binary graphics drivers though (got far, far away from trying to use Nvidia on Linux many years ago), so I can't speak to that.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  Kernel updates are not forced like is the case on windows. And yes, linux allows you to update the kernel without rebooting: it's called kernel live patching.
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  Can you update everything else on a Linux box without rebooting? How does this compare to Windows updates, and how many of them require rebooting?
  - gerdesj 5y ago
    There is a program called needrestart which you can run after updates to see what needs restarting to load new copies of libraries etc. Generally speaking you only need to actually reboot for kernel updates. When you update, you update everything - OS and apps all in one go unless you manually install stuff yourself outside of the package manager. Updates take from seconds to a few minutes unless you are running Gentoo in which case its from minutes to days or even weeks whilst your compiler crunches its way through vast seas of source code and you fix the various issues along the way 8) You can automate the whole thing or not - up to you.
    - revolvingocelot 5y ago
      Grandparent was a facetious question intended to deflate the great-grandparent, which suggested that Windows' annoying need to restart for every damn thing was comparable somehow to Linux's update requirements. Which as parent points out are functionally nonexistent, except for a rare kernel update (and you don't have to restart if your glasses are thick enough to live patch). I often suggest Manjaro, which is smart enough to do all the updating for you, but is also Arch enough to let you do it all manually.
NDizzle 5y ago
Maybe this is new in Windows 11, benefit of the doubt and all, but this isn’t a thing on any other versions of Windows. Forced reboots aren’t a thing. Misclicks, however, are.
- Brybry 5y ago
  Windows 10 will definitely update and reboot without the user taking any action. One thing to remember is that many streamers are using dual-PC setups and the bigger streamers may only run these systems for streaming -- not for personal use. It's very possible the streamer missed any update nags because they are mainly interfaced with the gaming PC. And depending on their setup all the user input might be going to the gaming PC and the streaming PC might think it's currently inactive but with a pesky OBS process left running.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  > Misclicks, however, are. Victim blaming once again.
- mikhailt 5y ago
  This is a thing on Windows 10, I was watching a video with my sister on the PC running Windows 10 and all of the sudden, it just rebooted into updating Windows. One thing is that Windows Home does not have an option to postpone or delay updates, this is only for Windows Pro editions. When there is an update, it will start doing it automatically with a timer and it sometimes does not pop up on top of everything you're doing.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Do you have a link to a clip of this? I've never had Windows force an update on me. I'm suspecting it's a myth to be busted, but I want to make sure.
- Tostino 5y ago
  Heh you are lucky as hell. I've had it shut down in the middle of a Teams meeting on me for updates.

Imagine, after months of work and sleepless nights the day has come, you have to submit your thesis. But during the final corrections your Windows decides to shutdown and update the system for an uncertain duration. It wasn't my thesis, but I was part of the people that helped to solved the resulting mess (the update took 4 hours and the deadline was 2PM). That day I learned to never rely on Microsoft ever again.

baq 5y ago

do you update your linux kernel on the desktop without rebooting?

mschuster91 5y ago
I update my Linux systems manually on my schedule, my computer does not decide it wants a reboot right fucking now.
commoner 5y ago
Linux has no mandatory automatic updates in the first place,* so this situation doesn't ever need to take place. To answer your question, it is possible to update the Linux kernel without rebooting, but you may run into some issues with kernel modules that would be solved with a reboot. * Edit: After writing this comment, I remembered that Snaps on Linux have automatic updates that can only be deferred up to 90 days. However, Snaps don't handle Linux kernel updates. I don't recommend using Snaps.
- NDizzle 5y ago
  Since when does Windows have mandatory automatic updates?!
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    I’ve had Windows spontaneously restart on me while I’m doing stuff, to apply an update. If it was somehow my fault, I have no idea what caused it, and so it’s Microsoft’s fault after all since it wasn’t clear.
    - BurningPenguin 5y ago
      My computer once decided that 1 A.M. in the night is a great time to automagically boot up and do updates. I had to physically turn off power, so it wasn't able to do that. Even disabling that feature in the bios didn't work for some reason. I still don't know how the machine was able to do it. Fast boot wasn't even enabled, because it caused other problems when it was. It stopped happening someday, but it's still haunting me. It doesn't really build trust.
      - jraph 5y ago
        On Linux, one can instruct the BIOS to turn on the computer at a specified time after suspend or even power off using rtcwake [1]. I don't know many things about Windows but I guess they are doing something like this. [1] https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rtcwake.8.html https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rtcwake.8.html
        BurningPenguin 5y ago
        Yeah, that's what i tried to turn off in the BIOS. It's actually one of the earlier UEFI enabled ones from MSI. I guess it's a bit bugged. It also tends to freeze when i have it open for too long. There are no updates anymore and i don't get a decent CPU for it, so i'll probably upgrade it soon-ish. Just not sure if i'll get MSI again or maybe try something else this time. Asus seems neat.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Since Windows 10. It is possible to disable it, but Microsoft fought very hard to prevent people from doing so by putting up a ton of road blocks. It was a loudly decried 'feature'.
- bogwog 5y ago
  > Edit: After writing this comment, I remembered that Snaps on Linux have automatic updates that can only be deferred up to 90 days. However, Snaps don't handle Linux kernel updates. I don't recommend using Snaps. I didn't even know that. It's one more item on the list of reasons to not use Snaps.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Right? It's like Canonical looked at all the hate Windows was getting and decided they wanted in on that action. Snaps can kiss my ass.
thraxil 5y ago
Yes. See Ubuntu Livepatch.
- emj 5y ago
  I do not use it on the desktop so I have no idea if that works, I would guess that binary graphics drivers are unpatchable with live patch. I've patched the kernel on servers like that for a long time now, I recommended it warmly no problems so far!
  - thraxil 5y ago
    It works the same on desktop as servers. I don't run anything that requires binary graphics drivers though (got far, far away from trying to use Nvidia on Linux many years ago), so I can't speak to that.
marcodiego 5y ago
Kernel updates are not forced like is the case on windows. And yes, linux allows you to update the kernel without rebooting: it's called kernel live patching.
revolvingocelot 5y ago
Can you update everything else on a Linux box without rebooting? How does this compare to Windows updates, and how many of them require rebooting?
- gerdesj 5y ago
  There is a program called needrestart which you can run after updates to see what needs restarting to load new copies of libraries etc. Generally speaking you only need to actually reboot for kernel updates. When you update, you update everything - OS and apps all in one go unless you manually install stuff yourself outside of the package manager. Updates take from seconds to a few minutes unless you are running Gentoo in which case its from minutes to days or even weeks whilst your compiler crunches its way through vast seas of source code and you fix the various issues along the way 8) You can automate the whole thing or not - up to you.
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    Grandparent was a facetious question intended to deflate the great-grandparent, which suggested that Windows' annoying need to restart for every damn thing was comparable somehow to Linux's update requirements. Which as parent points out are functionally nonexistent, except for a rare kernel update (and you don't have to restart if your glasses are thick enough to live patch). I often suggest Manjaro, which is smart enough to do all the updating for you, but is also Arch enough to let you do it all manually.

NDizzle 5y ago

Maybe this is new in Windows 11, benefit of the doubt and all, but this isn’t a thing on any other versions of Windows. Forced reboots aren’t a thing. Misclicks, however, are.

Brybry 5y ago
Windows 10 will definitely update and reboot without the user taking any action. One thing to remember is that many streamers are using dual-PC setups and the bigger streamers may only run these systems for streaming -- not for personal use. It's very possible the streamer missed any update nags because they are mainly interfaced with the gaming PC. And depending on their setup all the user input might be going to the gaming PC and the streaming PC might think it's currently inactive but with a pesky OBS process left running.
marcodiego 5y ago
> Misclicks, however, are. Victim blaming once again.
mikhailt 5y ago
This is a thing on Windows 10, I was watching a video with my sister on the PC running Windows 10 and all of the sudden, it just rebooted into updating Windows. One thing is that Windows Home does not have an option to postpone or delay updates, this is only for Windows Pro editions. When there is an update, it will start doing it automatically with a timer and it sometimes does not pop up on top of everything you're doing.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Do you have a link to a clip of this? I've never had Windows force an update on me. I'm suspecting it's a myth to be busted, but I want to make sure.

Tostino 5y ago
Heh you are lucky as hell. I've had it shut down in the middle of a Teams meeting on me for updates.