7 ms·

Been using Kodi (XBMC) for nearly 20 years. The piracy FUD surrounding XBMC a few years ago really disappointed me. We use Kodi for streaming tv (Australia) an

Been using Kodi (XBMC) for nearly 20 years. The piracy FUD surrounding XBMC a few years ago really disappointed me. We use Kodi for streaming tv (Australia) and internet radio and it is perfect for this. That's all I wanted to say really. The piracy FUD has been disappointing.

afavour 5y ago
It’s not really FUD in the vast majority of cases, though. Kodi is used to play pirated content the vast majority of the time. No value judgment either way by me but it’s obviously true. Same with Plex.
- harry8 5y ago
  This is like saying cars are used to escape from bank robberies or people walk out their front doors to commit crimes. Just insane, sorry.
  - puchatek 5y ago
    Try "cars are used to commute". Still insane? No, because that's a very likely usecase. Just like playing pirated content via a media center. Now why would your reply completely ignore the actual likelihood of an event?
    - harry8 5y ago
      No it's absolutely and completely nonsense. Try "Kodi is used to manage and play video files" instead. Because (a) that is not illegal and (b) that is true. You have no idea how many people use Kodi to manage their dvds they ripped using handbrake, for example. None. Zero. You have no idea how many people use kodi for streaming Al-Jazeera news or msnbc/fox disinformation. So now you're just speculating and trying to claim a useful tool, like a car, can be used in association with an illegal act, like a bank robbery getaway car. That's it. Even if you did have actual data, which you don't, it's utterly irrelevant. There is are multiple ordinary, expected, and designed for legal uses of kodi. Kodi is being used legally, properly and ethically by a great many people. That is clear and not in dispute. Take it one step further to see it with stunning clarity. What percentage of home computers have been used in some fashion with copyrighted material where Disney et al claim they should be paid ever more and have repeatedly changed laws by paying large sums to politicians to effect that law-enforcement supported revenue increase? With no data someone claims "most home computers are used this way" and makes your comment about ignoring likelihood when called out for it. It really is just a nuts analysis and should be called as such.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  I think it becomes FUD when the same message is not applied to other similar products. Windows Media Player must also be used a incredible amount to watch pirated content, but it's not a label we put on it.
  - cheeze 5y ago
    It comes down, to me, to the primary goal of the userbase. Primary goal of Kodi/XBMC/Plex/Emby users is generally piracy. Not true for WMP. There is some line but it's unclear and I don't know exactly how to draw it
    - sophacles 5y ago
      Are you sure most people who use wmp in 2021 aren't just using it to watch the downloaded movie/show/etc? Serious question, because most people just do media in their browser or iTunes (or equivalent from various streaming services) at this point. Is VLC a piracy tool? What about mpv? I suspect you are deciding what a tool is for and then deciding the motivations of that tool's users based on what you decided the tool is for. Compare: The vast majority of lockpick owners just think it's a fun skill. They never use the picks other than on locks that are explicitly purchased for picking (locks they or a friend own, usually not actually locking anything, etc). Yet when traveling to (e.g. defcon) places where they will be socially lockpicking with other enthusiasts, the TSA often harasses people for being theives. It's happened to me and plenty of others because folks decide the intent based on the tool.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  Fine, I'll bite. Any stats to back "the vast majority"? Isn't that to be expected of literally any media player software? You obviously need a number of non drm-crippled media to watch and you care about quality/features/availabilty: https://xkcd.com/488/ https://xkcd.com/488/
  - afavour 5y ago
    There is no hard data, of course. But a quick look at Kodi communities, for instance “Addons4Kodi” on Reddit shows that the vast majority of the top posts are dedicated to piracy. And even dipping your toe into Kodi communities shows it pretty clearly. > Isn't that to be expected of literally any media player software? I guess how you define the term. Apple TV? No, I’d say the majority of users are watching copyrighted DRM streams. But it’s definitely media player software.
colordrops 5y ago
Can you elaborate? Are you saying there is FUD against Kodi or XBMC or BY them?
- sophacles 5y ago
  4-5 (ish?) Years ago there was a lot of media coverage about how kodi was a "piracy app" because some cheap set tops were shipping it with bundled torrent (etc) plugins. There were various legal threats against the project itself. Worth searching for in hn archives, lots of good discussion about it and how much of a coordinated smear campaign it was/n't.
  - DrewRWx 5y ago
    To show just how much the XBMC Foundation is against using their work for piracy: They chose the name Kodi because it was the most protectable trademark they could claim, which opened an avenue for them to sue the drop-shippers for trademark violation.
    - bombcar 5y ago
      I feel they’re in the same position Dolphin is - attempting to keep a center of respectability above what everyone knows the product is actually used for.
      - DrewRWx 5y ago
        The emulation scene is more extra than I can handle atm, so I'll focus more on the XBMC Foundation: What more can they do? They make a legal product with plenty of legal and licensed uses and they did their due diligence to prevent piracy via their product as much as possible. They also did so without being hostile to customers and unnecessarily locking-down their plugin system. A little virtue signaling can go a long way sometimes.
denkmoon 5y ago
Piracy is a moral obligation.
- throwhauser 5y ago
  Why?
  - labster 5y ago
    Intellectual property is theft by the corporations — it is literally charging us to partake in our own culture. And if you’re a creator and create something derivative, expect tens of thousands in a legal judgement against you just because you’re a creative fan. Even decades after the creator is dead, and can no longer benefit.
    - parineum 5y ago
      >it is literally charging us to partake in our own culture If I create something it's not your culture unless I decide to share it.
      - tshaddox 5y ago
        It generally wouldn’t be piratable if you chose to never release it at all.
      - tuscen 5y ago
        If you agree to erase your memory of all culture surrounding you and to create truly from blank than your statement could have some sense.
        stjohnswarts 5y ago
        The culture around our current set of movies very very very likely wouldn't exist without for profit markets for that IP. Sorry my blood, sweat, tears in making new items isn't "free" for you to take unless I release it as free (which I certainly have in the past). I mean you can steal it obviously because it's an IT product but that doesn't make it moral at least not in my culture.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

afavour 5y ago

It’s not really FUD in the vast majority of cases, though. Kodi is used to play pirated content the vast majority of the time. No value judgment either way by me but it’s obviously true. Same with Plex.

harry8 5y ago
This is like saying cars are used to escape from bank robberies or people walk out their front doors to commit crimes. Just insane, sorry.
- puchatek 5y ago
  Try "cars are used to commute". Still insane? No, because that's a very likely usecase. Just like playing pirated content via a media center. Now why would your reply completely ignore the actual likelihood of an event?
  - harry8 5y ago
    No it's absolutely and completely nonsense. Try "Kodi is used to manage and play video files" instead. Because (a) that is not illegal and (b) that is true. You have no idea how many people use Kodi to manage their dvds they ripped using handbrake, for example. None. Zero. You have no idea how many people use kodi for streaming Al-Jazeera news or msnbc/fox disinformation. So now you're just speculating and trying to claim a useful tool, like a car, can be used in association with an illegal act, like a bank robbery getaway car. That's it. Even if you did have actual data, which you don't, it's utterly irrelevant. There is are multiple ordinary, expected, and designed for legal uses of kodi. Kodi is being used legally, properly and ethically by a great many people. That is clear and not in dispute. Take it one step further to see it with stunning clarity. What percentage of home computers have been used in some fashion with copyrighted material where Disney et al claim they should be paid ever more and have repeatedly changed laws by paying large sums to politicians to effect that law-enforcement supported revenue increase? With no data someone claims "most home computers are used this way" and makes your comment about ignoring likelihood when called out for it. It really is just a nuts analysis and should be called as such.
makeitdouble 5y ago
I think it becomes FUD when the same message is not applied to other similar products. Windows Media Player must also be used a incredible amount to watch pirated content, but it's not a label we put on it.
- cheeze 5y ago
  It comes down, to me, to the primary goal of the userbase. Primary goal of Kodi/XBMC/Plex/Emby users is generally piracy. Not true for WMP. There is some line but it's unclear and I don't know exactly how to draw it
  - sophacles 5y ago
    Are you sure most people who use wmp in 2021 aren't just using it to watch the downloaded movie/show/etc? Serious question, because most people just do media in their browser or iTunes (or equivalent from various streaming services) at this point. Is VLC a piracy tool? What about mpv? I suspect you are deciding what a tool is for and then deciding the motivations of that tool's users based on what you decided the tool is for. Compare: The vast majority of lockpick owners just think it's a fun skill. They never use the picks other than on locks that are explicitly purchased for picking (locks they or a friend own, usually not actually locking anything, etc). Yet when traveling to (e.g. defcon) places where they will be socially lockpicking with other enthusiasts, the TSA often harasses people for being theives. It's happened to me and plenty of others because folks decide the intent based on the tool.
diffeomorphism 5y ago
Fine, I'll bite. Any stats to back "the vast majority"? Isn't that to be expected of literally any media player software? You obviously need a number of non drm-crippled media to watch and you care about quality/features/availabilty: https://xkcd.com/488/ https://xkcd.com/488/
- afavour 5y ago
  There is no hard data, of course. But a quick look at Kodi communities, for instance “Addons4Kodi” on Reddit shows that the vast majority of the top posts are dedicated to piracy. And even dipping your toe into Kodi communities shows it pretty clearly. > Isn't that to be expected of literally any media player software? I guess how you define the term. Apple TV? No, I’d say the majority of users are watching copyrighted DRM streams. But it’s definitely media player software.

colordrops 5y ago

Can you elaborate? Are you saying there is FUD against Kodi or XBMC or BY them?

sophacles 5y ago
4-5 (ish?) Years ago there was a lot of media coverage about how kodi was a "piracy app" because some cheap set tops were shipping it with bundled torrent (etc) plugins. There were various legal threats against the project itself. Worth searching for in hn archives, lots of good discussion about it and how much of a coordinated smear campaign it was/n't.
- DrewRWx 5y ago
  To show just how much the XBMC Foundation is against using their work for piracy: They chose the name Kodi because it was the most protectable trademark they could claim, which opened an avenue for them to sue the drop-shippers for trademark violation.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    I feel they’re in the same position Dolphin is - attempting to keep a center of respectability above what everyone knows the product is actually used for.
    - DrewRWx 5y ago
      The emulation scene is more extra than I can handle atm, so I'll focus more on the XBMC Foundation: What more can they do? They make a legal product with plenty of legal and licensed uses and they did their due diligence to prevent piracy via their product as much as possible. They also did so without being hostile to customers and unnecessarily locking-down their plugin system. A little virtue signaling can go a long way sometimes.

denkmoon 5y ago

Piracy is a moral obligation.

throwhauser 5y ago
Why?
- labster 5y ago
  Intellectual property is theft by the corporations — it is literally charging us to partake in our own culture. And if you’re a creator and create something derivative, expect tens of thousands in a legal judgement against you just because you’re a creative fan. Even decades after the creator is dead, and can no longer benefit.
  - parineum 5y ago
    >it is literally charging us to partake in our own culture If I create something it's not your culture unless I decide to share it.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      It generally wouldn’t be piratable if you chose to never release it at all.
    - tuscen 5y ago
      If you agree to erase your memory of all culture surrounding you and to create truly from blank than your statement could have some sense.
      - stjohnswarts 5y ago
        The culture around our current set of movies very very very likely wouldn't exist without for profit markets for that IP. Sorry my blood, sweat, tears in making new items isn't "free" for you to take unless I release it as free (which I certainly have in the past). I mean you can steal it obviously because it's an IT product but that doesn't make it moral at least not in my culture.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]