7 ms·

Why? We get a flu booster every year, and that’s fine. I’m happy to get a shot every so often if it means I can go about my life like normal.

crate_barre 5y ago
You don’t lose your job for not getting the flu vaccine. Again, it’s an unprecedented situation and I’ll accept the mandate for the three shots, but this has to have an end at some point.
- throwawayxmas 5y ago
  Of course it ends, when the hospitals aren't a mess? Until then, we have to keep getting vaccines. It's clear that the wave after wave it's getting easier in the hospitals. Remember, that hospital systems in pretty much all countries has collapsed. They have to move surgeries and some patients are even afraid to go to hospitals at this point.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    They stopped surgeries here (more or less), but it has nothing to do with any kind of shortage or lack of capacity.
  - hcurtiss 5y ago
    > Remember, that hospital systems in pretty much all countries has collapsed. This is just factually incorrect. This kind of fearmongering is helping nobody.
- zrail 5y ago
  This isn't something that can be willed away. Your acceptance means nothing to a virus. What's likely to happen is a covid vax will get rolled in with the quadrivalent annual flu vax so most people will just get one annual booster.
- CrazyCatDog 5y ago
  Clinics routinely require staff and physicians to be vaccinated against the flu lest there be an exemption on file. Granted this article shared that the rate is low, it also surfaced mandates for healthcare: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020194/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020194/
  - podgaj 5y ago
    I have never heard of a population wide mandate for a flu vaccine however. And since 2004 the average effectiveness for the flu vaccine is about 40% so I guess if you are in a high risk group it might increase your survival a bit, but not enough effectiveness for a national mandate. The death rate of the flu is about 0.01% for all populations. I mean, would you get a surgery that had a 40% success rate if your chance of dying without the surgery was 0.01%?
    - CrazyCatDog 5y ago
      You are basing your argument on population based statistics. Healthcare workers are an important, large, and uniquely at risk sub-population. Should you rx chemo therapy this afternoon? Probably not… unless you have a known tumor. Radiating random people off the street is not a good idea—I fully agree!
      - podgaj 5y ago
        Yes, which is why we should be only vaccinating "important, large, and uniquely at risk sub-population"s. I do not mind mandates for vaccines for certain workers, but for young bartenders?
    - jokowueu 5y ago
      That's a false equivalence . A jab isn't as evasive as surgery, it doesn't carry the same risks,costs,time etc
      - codr7 5y ago
- chasd00 5y ago
  I only “accepted” the mandate from my employer because I won’t risk my family’s well being for a piece of paper. I’m 100% pro vaccination (got a Moderna booster two day ago even) but am 110% against mandates. The government using private industry as a proxy to enforce policy they know will not pass the legal process is wrong.
- amznbyebyebye 5y ago
  Why is it three? Why can’t they make it effective with one vaccine? Hmm maybe because three vaccines is 3x the revenue they get vs. from one vaccine. They’re just not incentivized for our long term health and well being. It is a pure capitalism.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>Why can’t they make it effective with one vaccine? There are actual technical and medical answers to this, but somehow I have a feeling you aren't interested in knowing them.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - amznbyebyebye 5y ago
      I am interested to know. I have worked with big pharma executives, and frankly they are probably less interested to know the answer to this than I am.
- DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago
  Maybe at your place of employment you won't get fired for not keeping your vaccinations up to spec, but there are many employees that have had vaccine mandates for decades...nearly every hospital, most research laboratories (especially ones that handle human biological specimens), nearly every school...
- amznbyebyebye 5y ago
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Except of course that it isn't. If you look closely at the available data you'll see that since the start of the vaccination campaigns the ratio of people dying/being hospitalized versus the number of people infected has steadily improved. Without the vaccines it would be a completely different ballgame. There is plenty wrong with big pharma, but right now they are doing a reasonably good job at helping us all.
forgotmyoldname 5y ago
Flu shots are “updated” every year for new variants. I might be wrong, but I think covid boosters so far are all just extra doses of the same old material. I don’t think anyone would get flu shots if we were expected to get 4 doses of the same thing with demonstrated lower efficacy. I’m perfectly fine with getting boosters if they’re adjusted to be more effective against new strains. Getting a third, fourth, or fifth dose of the same old strain that’s basically been evolutionarily eliminated seems off to me.
- gambiting 5y ago
  Which is why all of these companies are currently working on "v2" of the vaccine which specifically targets omicron. But since the current version of the vaccine was found the be effective anyway, that's why it's being used. I imagine by the time next year it won't be in use anymore, purely because of its lack of effectivness for whatever variant is around then.
  - noir_lord 5y ago
    I think that is exactly the way we are heading as pandemic becomes endemic. A yearly shot for vulnerable people possibly rolled in with your flu shot (or at least scheduled the same way). I go get my flu shot every year since I'm classed as vulnerable for health reasons - the exact same reasons I went and got both covid shots and the booster the second I could.
- whynotminot 5y ago
  You’re thinking about the booster wrong. Having a vaccine for the ancestral strain is actually pretty great, because it confers (or has to this point) some level of protection against all child strains due to there being at least enough similarity still. If you make some highly specific omicron booster, it might not do anything against whatever variant comes next. As long as the original shot keeps working, it’s the best one to ride with for now.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
thaufeki 5y ago
Why do people keep saying this? I have literally never received a flu shot, they have always been reserved for the sick and elderly Why not, instead of shots, do these pharmaceutical companies not prioritise developing an effective at home treatment for the symptoms of Covid-19? It's very hard to see light at the end of this tunnel, which appears to be becoming a booster merry-go-round.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>Why do people keep saying this? Because the population on HN is not homogeneus and different regions in the world approach the flu vaccine differently? In some countries it's completely free and it's normal to get it every year, and even in some countries where it isn't, there's only a nominal cost and usually the employer covers it - so most people get the flu shot too. Not a big deal at all. >> they have always been reserved for the sick and elderly See above. Maybe that's true where you live. >> instead of shots, do these pharmaceutical companies not prioritise developing an effective at home treatment for the symptoms of Covid-19 Why not both? Treatment for symptoms is under development, as well as vaccine which you take with an inhaler at home. Or would you rather that they stopped the development of vaccines completely and focused just on the treatment of symptoms?
  - thaufeki 5y ago
    >>Or would you rather that they stopped the development of vaccines completely and focused just on the treatment of symptoms? No, but surely it would be easier to produce an antiviral for home use that would alleviate the symptoms of Covid-19, rather than relying on the development of a vaccine, and then demanding almost universal uptake for it to work? Then we could have had vaccines for the sick, elderly, immunocompromised and whoever else wanted them after a while, and treatment of symptoms for everyone else. We knew, pretty much from the beginning, that Covid was here to stay. I would like to know what the path out of this pandemic is now, now that we still aren't discussing treatment and are talking about additional boosters.
    - Toutouxc 5y ago
amznbyebyebye 5y ago
Lol you get the booster. I’ve never had a flu shot and don’t intend to get one unless I’m forced to. I’ve never been accused of killing anyone or putting anyones life at risk like the case with the current virus.
- gambiting 5y ago
  I honestly don't know what this adds to the discussion though. Like....good for you? And of course you didn't get accused of such things, because it would have made zero sense in context.
  - miked85 5y ago
    Of course it makes zero sense, same with COVID vaccinations.
mjfl 5y ago
I don't get a severe fever from flu shots.
- gambiting 5y ago
  Do you not? I certainly do, at least in the last few years, every single time. And if we're sharing anecdotes, I was absolutely fine after all 3 of my covid shots, just a painful arm the next day and that's about it.
- simonh 5y ago
  Many people do.

crate_barre 5y ago

You don’t lose your job for not getting the flu vaccine. Again, it’s an unprecedented situation and I’ll accept the mandate for the three shots, but this has to have an end at some point.

throwawayxmas 5y ago
Of course it ends, when the hospitals aren't a mess? Until then, we have to keep getting vaccines. It's clear that the wave after wave it's getting easier in the hospitals. Remember, that hospital systems in pretty much all countries has collapsed. They have to move surgeries and some patients are even afraid to go to hospitals at this point.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  They stopped surgeries here (more or less), but it has nothing to do with any kind of shortage or lack of capacity.
- hcurtiss 5y ago
  > Remember, that hospital systems in pretty much all countries has collapsed. This is just factually incorrect. This kind of fearmongering is helping nobody.
zrail 5y ago
This isn't something that can be willed away. Your acceptance means nothing to a virus. What's likely to happen is a covid vax will get rolled in with the quadrivalent annual flu vax so most people will just get one annual booster.
CrazyCatDog 5y ago
Clinics routinely require staff and physicians to be vaccinated against the flu lest there be an exemption on file. Granted this article shared that the rate is low, it also surfaced mandates for healthcare: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020194/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020194/
- podgaj 5y ago
  I have never heard of a population wide mandate for a flu vaccine however. And since 2004 the average effectiveness for the flu vaccine is about 40% so I guess if you are in a high risk group it might increase your survival a bit, but not enough effectiveness for a national mandate. The death rate of the flu is about 0.01% for all populations. I mean, would you get a surgery that had a 40% success rate if your chance of dying without the surgery was 0.01%?
  - CrazyCatDog 5y ago
    You are basing your argument on population based statistics. Healthcare workers are an important, large, and uniquely at risk sub-population. Should you rx chemo therapy this afternoon? Probably not… unless you have a known tumor. Radiating random people off the street is not a good idea—I fully agree!
    - podgaj 5y ago
      Yes, which is why we should be only vaccinating "important, large, and uniquely at risk sub-population"s. I do not mind mandates for vaccines for certain workers, but for young bartenders?
  - jokowueu 5y ago
    That's a false equivalence . A jab isn't as evasive as surgery, it doesn't carry the same risks,costs,time etc
    - codr7 5y ago
chasd00 5y ago
I only “accepted” the mandate from my employer because I won’t risk my family’s well being for a piece of paper. I’m 100% pro vaccination (got a Moderna booster two day ago even) but am 110% against mandates. The government using private industry as a proxy to enforce policy they know will not pass the legal process is wrong.
amznbyebyebye 5y ago
Why is it three? Why can’t they make it effective with one vaccine? Hmm maybe because three vaccines is 3x the revenue they get vs. from one vaccine. They’re just not incentivized for our long term health and well being. It is a pure capitalism.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>Why can’t they make it effective with one vaccine? There are actual technical and medical answers to this, but somehow I have a feeling you aren't interested in knowing them.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - amznbyebyebye 5y ago
    I am interested to know. I have worked with big pharma executives, and frankly they are probably less interested to know the answer to this than I am.
DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago
Maybe at your place of employment you won't get fired for not keeping your vaccinations up to spec, but there are many employees that have had vaccine mandates for decades...nearly every hospital, most research laboratories (especially ones that handle human biological specimens), nearly every school...
amznbyebyebye 5y ago
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Except of course that it isn't. If you look closely at the available data you'll see that since the start of the vaccination campaigns the ratio of people dying/being hospitalized versus the number of people infected has steadily improved. Without the vaccines it would be a completely different ballgame. There is plenty wrong with big pharma, but right now they are doing a reasonably good job at helping us all.

forgotmyoldname 5y ago

Flu shots are “updated” every year for new variants. I might be wrong, but I think covid boosters so far are all just extra doses of the same old material. I don’t think anyone would get flu shots if we were expected to get 4 doses of the same thing with demonstrated lower efficacy. I’m perfectly fine with getting boosters if they’re adjusted to be more effective against new strains. Getting a third, fourth, or fifth dose of the same old strain that’s basically been evolutionarily eliminated seems off to me.

gambiting 5y ago
Which is why all of these companies are currently working on "v2" of the vaccine which specifically targets omicron. But since the current version of the vaccine was found the be effective anyway, that's why it's being used. I imagine by the time next year it won't be in use anymore, purely because of its lack of effectivness for whatever variant is around then.
- noir_lord 5y ago
  I think that is exactly the way we are heading as pandemic becomes endemic. A yearly shot for vulnerable people possibly rolled in with your flu shot (or at least scheduled the same way). I go get my flu shot every year since I'm classed as vulnerable for health reasons - the exact same reasons I went and got both covid shots and the booster the second I could.
whynotminot 5y ago
You’re thinking about the booster wrong. Having a vaccine for the ancestral strain is actually pretty great, because it confers (or has to this point) some level of protection against all child strains due to there being at least enough similarity still. If you make some highly specific omicron booster, it might not do anything against whatever variant comes next. As long as the original shot keeps working, it’s the best one to ride with for now.
- throwaway894345 5y ago

thaufeki 5y ago

Why do people keep saying this? I have literally never received a flu shot, they have always been reserved for the sick and elderly Why not, instead of shots, do these pharmaceutical companies not prioritise developing an effective at home treatment for the symptoms of Covid-19? It's very hard to see light at the end of this tunnel, which appears to be becoming a booster merry-go-round.

gambiting 5y ago
>>Why do people keep saying this? Because the population on HN is not homogeneus and different regions in the world approach the flu vaccine differently? In some countries it's completely free and it's normal to get it every year, and even in some countries where it isn't, there's only a nominal cost and usually the employer covers it - so most people get the flu shot too. Not a big deal at all. >> they have always been reserved for the sick and elderly See above. Maybe that's true where you live. >> instead of shots, do these pharmaceutical companies not prioritise developing an effective at home treatment for the symptoms of Covid-19 Why not both? Treatment for symptoms is under development, as well as vaccine which you take with an inhaler at home. Or would you rather that they stopped the development of vaccines completely and focused just on the treatment of symptoms?
- thaufeki 5y ago
  >>Or would you rather that they stopped the development of vaccines completely and focused just on the treatment of symptoms? No, but surely it would be easier to produce an antiviral for home use that would alleviate the symptoms of Covid-19, rather than relying on the development of a vaccine, and then demanding almost universal uptake for it to work? Then we could have had vaccines for the sick, elderly, immunocompromised and whoever else wanted them after a while, and treatment of symptoms for everyone else. We knew, pretty much from the beginning, that Covid was here to stay. I would like to know what the path out of this pandemic is now, now that we still aren't discussing treatment and are talking about additional boosters.
  - Toutouxc 5y ago

amznbyebyebye 5y ago

Lol you get the booster. I’ve never had a flu shot and don’t intend to get one unless I’m forced to. I’ve never been accused of killing anyone or putting anyones life at risk like the case with the current virus.

gambiting 5y ago
I honestly don't know what this adds to the discussion though. Like....good for you? And of course you didn't get accused of such things, because it would have made zero sense in context.
- miked85 5y ago
  Of course it makes zero sense, same with COVID vaccinations.

mjfl 5y ago

I don't get a severe fever from flu shots.

gambiting 5y ago
Do you not? I certainly do, at least in the last few years, every single time. And if we're sharing anecdotes, I was absolutely fine after all 3 of my covid shots, just a painful arm the next day and that's about it.
simonh 5y ago
Many people do.