4 ms·

I picked up a Kinesis a few month ago and it's been a life changer. I've struggled with shoulder pain since as far back as I can remember. I'd done PT, dry need

I picked up a Kinesis a few month ago and it's been a life changer. I've struggled with shoulder pain since as far back as I can remember. I'd done PT, dry needling, massage, etc etc. I'd even sprung for a personal ergonomic assessment. I'm a cyclist and and keyboard jockey, so most of my waking life is spent in positions that seemed to make it worse. At times it prevented me from sleeping, doing things I enjoyed, etc. I wear a 42 jacket, so I'm not crazy wide or anything. I'd never seen anything that suggested that split keyboards were a good solve for the shoulder pain but I'd reached that point of just throwing shit at a wall because it was that, or find a new career and hobbies. Moving my keyboard so my forearms can sit slightly wider than perpendicular to my chest has almost completely resolved the shoulder pain and the impact was almost immediate.

deagle50 5y ago
I've had shoulder pain for a couple of years now and I'm reading this right after I bought an old 500 on eBay for $100 two hours ago. I love my Niz topre clone but I need a healthier layout, and now I'm pretty stoked.
cma 5y ago
Where are you positioning your mouse, even farther out, or in-between the split?
- archarios 5y ago
  I put mine further out
- rangersanger 5y ago
  It depends on what I’m doing. If I’m doing a type intensive task I put it between the split and I use a track pad. Sometimes if I’m doing something mouse intensive I’ll shake it up, but that’s mostly how it stays.
- jamie_ca 5y ago
  I've been using a Freestyle 2 for a year+ now, 10" split, mouse sits in the middle. While typing it keeps my arms on the chair's armrests with my hands just extending forward, and the current armrest height keeps my wrists an inch or so above the desk so I don't need to worry about tracking down wrist pads or such.
hellol-amda 5y ago
I can attest to that. I tried microsoft ergonomic keyboards, logitech keboards but they didn't help then i found kinesis freestyle split keyboard and since then almost all the issues are gone. prior to switching to kinesis, i also switched from kwerty to dvorak, It helped but not that much. I used to have issues with my right hand due mouse usage, so i switched from right to left hand because i am right handed and unconsciously i was using it way more then my left. you do need to complement the change with upperbody stretching.
dwringer 5y ago
This was exactly my experience as well.
johnthedebs 5y ago
Out of curiosity: where/what type of shoulder pain did you have, and what movements triggered it?
yabatopia 5y ago
Did your doctors or therapists consider Thoracic Outlet Syndrome? I've struggled with severe pain in shoulders, arms, hands and fingers for several years. It was sort of discovered by accident. They removed both of my first ribs (rib resection) and in combination with a Kinesis keyboard and a Wacom pen and tablet as a mouse replacement it's much better now. Unfortunately, the solution came a bit late. The strain on my nerves and blood vessels caused by the thoracic outlet syndrome has damaged my arm nerves. And after the second rib resection, the one on the left side, my plexus brachialis got severely damaged. It took nearly 2 years to partially recover. My left arm gets tired very fast in certain positions, my left thumb is partially numb and sleeping on my left shoulder can be painful. I can't image how much worse it would be without my Kinesis Advantage keyboard and my Wacom Bamboo tablet. Using another computer or laptop with an normal keyboard, touchpad or mouse, is hell. An iPad Pro with a pencil (and a tablet stand to hold the tablet) is much better.
- swampthing 5y ago
  Pretty sure I have TOS too — it's how I came to discover Kinesis keyboards. It's manageable for me now, but I would be curious to find out if there was nerve damage so that I know how further I can improve and what's futile. Can I ask how the doctors determined that there was damage to your arm nerves? E.g. what sort of imaging / tests do they do?
  - yabatopia 5y ago
    In my case, the first clue came by accident. The MD asked my to hold my arms up and after a short time it became really painful and intolerable. Another one rest is taking your pulse by hand while holding up your the arm. If the pulse is pretty weak, hard to feel or completely disappears, that’s a strong indication for TOS. An electromyography or EMG is also often used to determine neuromuscular problems or nerve damage. A MRI scan can also reveal TOS problems, but the medical technicians must be familiar with it the tests and and execute them correctly. In my case the MRI scan was negative, probably because the test was only partially done (in hindsight). For me, the real confirmation came after an extensive arterial duplex ultrasound examination at a university hospital. Various head rotations, arm and shoulder positions were examined. In some positions the arterial flow in my arm completely disappeared. The examining specialist physician, a professor of medicine and specialised in TOS, called it one of the most clear cut cases of TOS he has ever seen in his career. Based on the MRI scan there were some serious doubts that TOS was the problem, bus the ultrasound tests made it perfectly clear. It’s shows that it is really important that you consult doctors or surgeons very familiar with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Search on the internet for recommendations or specialised medical departments. Best of luck!
hitchhiker-nz 5y ago
Split keyboard is good for shoulder pain for a number of reasons. For a start, it stops the need for hunching shoulders as the halves can be placed to fit shoulder width. This is for another split contoured keyboard, but it would help explain https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/rc2pxj/the_ergonomic_design_of_glove80/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/rc2pxj/t...
srcreigh 5y ago
For my issues, the fix was 1) Stretching my fingers. Yup. You gotta stretch a) curl motion of each finger, across the top of your hand, b) uncurling motion of each finger, through your palm, c) uncurling the thumb-pinky (touch your pinky to your thumb.. that's what you do when you hold the mouse... do the opposite as a stretch) 2) A good PT who can actually debug my body. I tried 5+ massage/osteo/PT professionals before finding her based on recommendation. Most were completely bad. One was decent but didn't fix the whole problem. Finally I found someone who could fix the problems. I also got a Kinesis Advantage 2, but honestly with the 2 above tips I'm not sure you need it.
akudha 5y ago
All of this sounds great, but it is nearly 450 bucks!!! I’d like to get one, the only turnoff is the price
- rangersanger 5y ago
  Check their refurb section. I picked up a freestyle for much much less than that.
- jbenner-radham 5y ago
  The Matias Ergo Pro Keyboard is similar and costs $200. I’ve got one and it’s been great.
whalesalad 5y ago
Just wanted to thank you for this comment. I have very broad shoulders but have been hacking on Apple keyboards for a few years now - the results are that I have essentially permanent internal rotation of my shoulders. This has led to not being able to breathe properly with my diaphragm, which causes all kinds of issues! I missed the pre-order, but I grabbed a Logitech ergo kb from the local Microcenter a few days ago and already the changes have been substantial! Of course I am also focusing consciously on the breath, using my diaphragm not my stomach or clavicles. Thanks again! I never considered it until I read your comment.

deagle50 5y ago

I've had shoulder pain for a couple of years now and I'm reading this right after I bought an old 500 on eBay for $100 two hours ago. I love my Niz topre clone but I need a healthier layout, and now I'm pretty stoked.

cma 5y ago

Where are you positioning your mouse, even farther out, or in-between the split?

archarios 5y ago
I put mine further out
rangersanger 5y ago
It depends on what I’m doing. If I’m doing a type intensive task I put it between the split and I use a track pad. Sometimes if I’m doing something mouse intensive I’ll shake it up, but that’s mostly how it stays.
jamie_ca 5y ago
I've been using a Freestyle 2 for a year+ now, 10" split, mouse sits in the middle. While typing it keeps my arms on the chair's armrests with my hands just extending forward, and the current armrest height keeps my wrists an inch or so above the desk so I don't need to worry about tracking down wrist pads or such.

hellol-amda 5y ago

I can attest to that. I tried microsoft ergonomic keyboards, logitech keboards but they didn't help then i found kinesis freestyle split keyboard and since then almost all the issues are gone. prior to switching to kinesis, i also switched from kwerty to dvorak, It helped but not that much. I used to have issues with my right hand due mouse usage, so i switched from right to left hand because i am right handed and unconsciously i was using it way more then my left. you do need to complement the change with upperbody stretching.

dwringer 5y ago

This was exactly my experience as well.

johnthedebs 5y ago

Out of curiosity: where/what type of shoulder pain did you have, and what movements triggered it?

yabatopia 5y ago

Did your doctors or therapists consider Thoracic Outlet Syndrome? I've struggled with severe pain in shoulders, arms, hands and fingers for several years. It was sort of discovered by accident. They removed both of my first ribs (rib resection) and in combination with a Kinesis keyboard and a Wacom pen and tablet as a mouse replacement it's much better now. Unfortunately, the solution came a bit late. The strain on my nerves and blood vessels caused by the thoracic outlet syndrome has damaged my arm nerves. And after the second rib resection, the one on the left side, my plexus brachialis got severely damaged. It took nearly 2 years to partially recover. My left arm gets tired very fast in certain positions, my left thumb is partially numb and sleeping on my left shoulder can be painful. I can't image how much worse it would be without my Kinesis Advantage keyboard and my Wacom Bamboo tablet. Using another computer or laptop with an normal keyboard, touchpad or mouse, is hell. An iPad Pro with a pencil (and a tablet stand to hold the tablet) is much better.

swampthing 5y ago
Pretty sure I have TOS too — it's how I came to discover Kinesis keyboards. It's manageable for me now, but I would be curious to find out if there was nerve damage so that I know how further I can improve and what's futile. Can I ask how the doctors determined that there was damage to your arm nerves? E.g. what sort of imaging / tests do they do?
- yabatopia 5y ago
  In my case, the first clue came by accident. The MD asked my to hold my arms up and after a short time it became really painful and intolerable. Another one rest is taking your pulse by hand while holding up your the arm. If the pulse is pretty weak, hard to feel or completely disappears, that’s a strong indication for TOS. An electromyography or EMG is also often used to determine neuromuscular problems or nerve damage. A MRI scan can also reveal TOS problems, but the medical technicians must be familiar with it the tests and and execute them correctly. In my case the MRI scan was negative, probably because the test was only partially done (in hindsight). For me, the real confirmation came after an extensive arterial duplex ultrasound examination at a university hospital. Various head rotations, arm and shoulder positions were examined. In some positions the arterial flow in my arm completely disappeared. The examining specialist physician, a professor of medicine and specialised in TOS, called it one of the most clear cut cases of TOS he has ever seen in his career. Based on the MRI scan there were some serious doubts that TOS was the problem, bus the ultrasound tests made it perfectly clear. It’s shows that it is really important that you consult doctors or surgeons very familiar with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Search on the internet for recommendations or specialised medical departments. Best of luck!

hitchhiker-nz 5y ago

Split keyboard is good for shoulder pain for a number of reasons. For a start, it stops the need for hunching shoulders as the halves can be placed to fit shoulder width. This is for another split contoured keyboard, but it would help explain https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/rc2pxj/the_ergonomic_design_of_glove80/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/rc2pxj/t...

srcreigh 5y ago

For my issues, the fix was 1) Stretching my fingers. Yup. You gotta stretch a) curl motion of each finger, across the top of your hand, b) uncurling motion of each finger, through your palm, c) uncurling the thumb-pinky (touch your pinky to your thumb.. that's what you do when you hold the mouse... do the opposite as a stretch) 2) A good PT who can actually debug my body. I tried 5+ massage/osteo/PT professionals before finding her based on recommendation. Most were completely bad. One was decent but didn't fix the whole problem. Finally I found someone who could fix the problems. I also got a Kinesis Advantage 2, but honestly with the 2 above tips I'm not sure you need it.

akudha 5y ago

All of this sounds great, but it is nearly 450 bucks!!! I’d like to get one, the only turnoff is the price

rangersanger 5y ago
Check their refurb section. I picked up a freestyle for much much less than that.
jbenner-radham 5y ago
The Matias Ergo Pro Keyboard is similar and costs $200. I’ve got one and it’s been great.

whalesalad 5y ago

Just wanted to thank you for this comment. I have very broad shoulders but have been hacking on Apple keyboards for a few years now - the results are that I have essentially permanent internal rotation of my shoulders. This has led to not being able to breathe properly with my diaphragm, which causes all kinds of issues! I missed the pre-order, but I grabbed a Logitech ergo kb from the local Microcenter a few days ago and already the changes have been substantial! Of course I am also focusing consciously on the breath, using my diaphragm not my stomach or clavicles. Thanks again! I never considered it until I read your comment.