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Hi all - I’m one of the founders at Privacy. I’d like to provide more context on why we’re asking customers to reissue cards. In an attempt to stay current wit

Hi all - I’m one of the founders at Privacy. I’d like to provide more context on why we’re asking customers to reissue cards. In an attempt to stay current with changes in card network and bank requirements, we spent the better part of this year investigating product adjustments and determined that changing our cards from prepaid debit to charge cards is the best option to preserve the customer experience. I recognize reissuing cards can be a pretty big inconvenience - this isn’t a decision we took lightly. The silver lining is that this should improve merchant acceptance and provide a better overall customer experience. Functionally, cards will continue to operate exactly as they always have - no fees, no interest, no selling of your data, and no impact to your credit score.

Kye 5y ago
Is this rolling out slowly, or did I join after this was already implemented for new cards? I see no cards on privacy.com/reissue and haven't gotten any notifications. I signed up in October.
- rachel_lithic 5y ago
  We rolled this product out to new users in early October, so it's possible you signed up after that change and have been issuing the new card type. Reach out to our team at support@privacy.com and we'll be happy to take a look at your account and confirm.
  - Kye 5y ago
    They confirmed I signed up with the new thing. Thanks. You might want to add an FAQ entry to cover the situation where someone finds out about the change but doesn't know if it applies to them.
fragmede 5y ago
Why force the change onto customers though? Most people understand the difference between a debit card and a credit card, and as someone who's had Privacy.com cards denied because it was a prepaid MC debit card and not a real CC, I've experienced what the problem was. But for merchants where the prepaid debit card works, why can I not continue using that card number there? Privacy.com is a wonderful service, but it already automatically locks to the first merchant the card is used on. If it's already working for that merchant, Why do I have to change the card number? Use the credit card updater mechanism (the same mechanism for when a CC gets stolen but my Netflix keeps working and they get the new number somehow) for all merchants that support that - that should keep the customer load down.
- prophesi 5y ago
  > but it already automatically locks to the first merchant the card is used on. Just a minor correction: I'm able to use the same Privacy card for x merchant for any number of y merchants, so long as it stays under the charge limit I've set for that card.
  - hnrodey 5y ago
    That has not been my experience and runs counter to their core product offering. Just my two cents.
    - prophesi 5y ago
      So a privacy card you used for one merchant was denied by another merchant? And it wasn't due to them rejecting prepaid cards, setting your card to single-use, or setting too low of a dollar limit?
      - greyface- 5y ago
        Not OP, but yes, this has been my experience. https://support.privacy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012404053-Why-do-I-have-to-use-a-new-card-for-each-merchant-I-pay-with-Privacy- https://support.privacy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012404053-W...
      - kingaillas 5y ago
        Not OP, but yep, my cards have been locked to the merchant. I've only experienced this with Kickstarter and then a secondary payment collector (BackerKit, etc) where some extra charge had to be finalized, typically shipping or maybe I threw in some extra doodad, and then had it fail because that second charge wasn't technically the same merchant. But this was fine and I was happy - working exactly as intended. I just created a new privacy card and updated payment.
      - sillysaurusx 5y ago
        Yes, it's quite annoying. I didn't want it and it was a surprise to me. I think there's a way to turn it off, but I haven't looked into it.
chuckdotis 5y ago
It it possible to continue using Privacy.com without providing an SSN? As I commented in a thread below, I had started using your service connected to a debit card via my credit union. Then was required to attach a bank account/routing number as the source for funding and didn't receive an adequate answer as to why (which is fine, but it's slower to process and it requires that I provide more sensitive information). I get that Privacy is obligated to gather certain financial information for regulatory purposes and fraud prevention, but it feels like I'm widening my attack surface providing that info.
- regulatorynerd 5y ago
  Hi -- I'm the head of legal and compliance for Privacy.com. Unfortunately this is a bank partner requirement, otherwise we wouldn't ask. We do take customer privacy and security very seriously, and have worked hard to have similar data security safeguards as larger companies like Square and Stripe (both places I've worked, so I would know!). You can read more about some of our security practices here. https://privacy.com/security https://privacy.com/security
  - danr4 5y ago
    wait... what if I don't have an SSN? (not a citizen, have a us bank account)
    - spindle 5y ago
      Right, this is crazy. I'm a US citizen but don't have an SSN and couldn't get one last time I tried.
      - divbzero 5y ago
        Somehow I’ve assumed every US citizen has an SSN. Are there obstacles you encounter from not having an SSN? What is the process for opening bank accounts or applying for loans?
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
nikolay 5y ago
I have hundreds of cards! Why are you forcing me to do this?! I have no time! Honestly, I'd probably just move to my main card, which almost never changes! Tomorrow you may decide to do something again! I really don't have time to babysit this! You should grandfather all cards and allow customers to change them if they want, otherwise, they should be valid till their expiration date! You're asking us to do a lot of work during the holiday season - this is crazy, really!
- ezekg 5y ago
  I agree with this. Not having to fiddle with changing cards was the main selling point that made me switch to Privacy, after my debit card was canceled 2 times in a month for “fraud” (it wasn’t -- they were legit purchases). I also have over a hundred cards, and subscribe to the paid plan. This is a huge inconvenience, especially given the short timeline and holidays. I wish this was handled better for older virtual cards. Also, I haven’t received any email about this change.
  - nikolay 5y ago
    I got the email yesterday. Those people live in ivory towers and probably don't use their own product! I have 4 weeks to move hundreds of cards, I'm a paying customer, and they just twist my arms to do this without actually thinking about making this easier for their clients! The prepaid status of the card was an issue, but when Divvy switched from MC to Visa, they had like 3+ months, when old cards worked, and you got the option to reissue them as Visa ones one by when at your convenience!
- neverendingsigh 5y ago
  I don't quite have hundreds of Privacy cards, but I have quite a few, and many for subscription services. Though I understand and welcome the core reason for the change, forcing users to do this migration in December—of all months—really necessitates a grim view of the value of our time and energy. The pre-paid debit product was limited, but far from broken. This could and should have waited another month. And the news shouldn't break on HN.
- 5y ago
bredren 5y ago
> In an attempt to stay current with changes in card network and bank requirements What were the most important changes from the networks in banks that precipitated this? Requiring an SSN is an important change. Did prior requirements not do enough to prevent abuse of their services?
d3d1rty 5y ago
This is a huge inconvenience, and dressing it up as an "Exciting Update" is Orwellian. I was a paying subscriber, but I'll be cancelling my subscription now.
sillysaurusx 5y ago
I'd like to thank privacy.com for making this change. It sounds like most people aren't aware, but recently merchants have been coming down hard on privacy.com. I've almost given up using it. Hetzner and GCP are the most problematic, but I've seen it elsewhere too. I'm not happy about having to reissue, but I will be happy if this forces vendors to take my privacy.com card. (Everyone else is complaining, so I thought I'd at least try to balance it out a little.) EDIT: Well, never mind. Apparently their new cards are still getting rejected. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29438181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29438181 I was really excited...
niij 5y ago
I didn't get an email about this, disappointing to find out first on HN. I assume there will be plenty of customers who just "miss" this and find out the hard way next month. Also 1 month notice during the holidays is really bad timing when you've had it available since early october.
technick 5y ago
First off let me start with how much I love your platform, I use it religiously. My experience has been great except for a few times it fell short and it's not something forgotten easily. My account has been suspended twice after trying to make purchases (both for under $50 purchases), one of them at a Ft Lauderdale pizza shop and the other was a online merchant. Both times I had to open support tickets and wait over 24 hours for support while I was locked out of my account. It turned out there's a blacklist of merchants that your not allowed to make purchases at but support couldn't give me the blacklist. So it's like a game of russian roulette if my account will get suspended for making purchases. Can you share any information on how this problem has been solved? I suggested to support that if someone is able to log in, pass 2fa, that should be enough to prove it's not fraudulent. I don't think support ever responded to my suggestions. Thank You
AdamJacobMuller 5y ago
Hi Jason, I posted this here originally, and wow this blew up, I think we've actually spoken over email as I was one of the earliest users of privacy. I've been using it for many years and abjectly love the service. I don't object to you reissuing cards. Like I mentioned in my other comment, I actually see a lot of positives (no more prepaid issues!), however, only giving people 30 days to update their cards in dozens (I literally have 81 open privacy cards) is "not fun" and up until now, using your service has been smooth, painless and something which this change (mostly the timing of it) just completely deflated. I updated like 4 or 5 cards so far, each one took me 5-10 minutes, on the outside I'm looking at (worst case) 13 hours of work I have to fit into the month of December (which with the holidays and year end biz items, is already the busiest). Yesterday, your service was just a dream to use, today it is a burden I have to find hours of time to fix. Sorry, I do truly love privacy and didn't post this to hurt you or privacy, but I hope you can extend the deadline. Best of luck to you and all of the privacy team.
edmcnulty101 5y ago
Just want to say,I LOVE your service! Thank you all for your hard work and what's been a flawless user experience up to this point. I've been with y'all since the very early days. I have no idea how you all make money but I hope you all are around for many years to come.
nikolay 5y ago
Also, it looks like we have to manually update them in 1Password. Out of hundreds of cards, I had only 5 listed for reussing. Why only 5?! Why not hundreds?

Kye 5y ago

Is this rolling out slowly, or did I join after this was already implemented for new cards? I see no cards on privacy.com/reissue and haven't gotten any notifications. I signed up in October.

rachel_lithic 5y ago
We rolled this product out to new users in early October, so it's possible you signed up after that change and have been issuing the new card type. Reach out to our team at support@privacy.com and we'll be happy to take a look at your account and confirm.
- Kye 5y ago
  They confirmed I signed up with the new thing. Thanks. You might want to add an FAQ entry to cover the situation where someone finds out about the change but doesn't know if it applies to them.

fragmede 5y ago

Why force the change onto customers though? Most people understand the difference between a debit card and a credit card, and as someone who's had Privacy.com cards denied because it was a prepaid MC debit card and not a real CC, I've experienced what the problem was. But for merchants where the prepaid debit card works, why can I not continue using that card number there? Privacy.com is a wonderful service, but it already automatically locks to the first merchant the card is used on. If it's already working for that merchant, Why do I have to change the card number? Use the credit card updater mechanism (the same mechanism for when a CC gets stolen but my Netflix keeps working and they get the new number somehow) for all merchants that support that - that should keep the customer load down.

prophesi 5y ago
> but it already automatically locks to the first merchant the card is used on. Just a minor correction: I'm able to use the same Privacy card for x merchant for any number of y merchants, so long as it stays under the charge limit I've set for that card.
- hnrodey 5y ago
  That has not been my experience and runs counter to their core product offering. Just my two cents.
  - prophesi 5y ago
    So a privacy card you used for one merchant was denied by another merchant? And it wasn't due to them rejecting prepaid cards, setting your card to single-use, or setting too low of a dollar limit?
    - greyface- 5y ago
      Not OP, but yes, this has been my experience. https://support.privacy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012404053-Why-do-I-have-to-use-a-new-card-for-each-merchant-I-pay-with-Privacy- https://support.privacy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012404053-W...
    - kingaillas 5y ago
      Not OP, but yep, my cards have been locked to the merchant. I've only experienced this with Kickstarter and then a secondary payment collector (BackerKit, etc) where some extra charge had to be finalized, typically shipping or maybe I threw in some extra doodad, and then had it fail because that second charge wasn't technically the same merchant. But this was fine and I was happy - working exactly as intended. I just created a new privacy card and updated payment.
    - sillysaurusx 5y ago
      Yes, it's quite annoying. I didn't want it and it was a surprise to me. I think there's a way to turn it off, but I haven't looked into it.

chuckdotis 5y ago

It it possible to continue using Privacy.com without providing an SSN? As I commented in a thread below, I had started using your service connected to a debit card via my credit union. Then was required to attach a bank account/routing number as the source for funding and didn't receive an adequate answer as to why (which is fine, but it's slower to process and it requires that I provide more sensitive information). I get that Privacy is obligated to gather certain financial information for regulatory purposes and fraud prevention, but it feels like I'm widening my attack surface providing that info.

regulatorynerd 5y ago
Hi -- I'm the head of legal and compliance for Privacy.com. Unfortunately this is a bank partner requirement, otherwise we wouldn't ask. We do take customer privacy and security very seriously, and have worked hard to have similar data security safeguards as larger companies like Square and Stripe (both places I've worked, so I would know!). You can read more about some of our security practices here. https://privacy.com/security https://privacy.com/security
- danr4 5y ago
  wait... what if I don't have an SSN? (not a citizen, have a us bank account)
  - spindle 5y ago
    Right, this is crazy. I'm a US citizen but don't have an SSN and couldn't get one last time I tried.
    - divbzero 5y ago
      Somehow I’ve assumed every US citizen has an SSN. Are there obstacles you encounter from not having an SSN? What is the process for opening bank accounts or applying for loans?
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago

nikolay 5y ago

I have hundreds of cards! Why are you forcing me to do this?! I have no time! Honestly, I'd probably just move to my main card, which almost never changes! Tomorrow you may decide to do something again! I really don't have time to babysit this! You should grandfather all cards and allow customers to change them if they want, otherwise, they should be valid till their expiration date! You're asking us to do a lot of work during the holiday season - this is crazy, really!

ezekg 5y ago
I agree with this. Not having to fiddle with changing cards was the main selling point that made me switch to Privacy, after my debit card was canceled 2 times in a month for “fraud” (it wasn’t -- they were legit purchases). I also have over a hundred cards, and subscribe to the paid plan. This is a huge inconvenience, especially given the short timeline and holidays. I wish this was handled better for older virtual cards. Also, I haven’t received any email about this change.
- nikolay 5y ago
  I got the email yesterday. Those people live in ivory towers and probably don't use their own product! I have 4 weeks to move hundreds of cards, I'm a paying customer, and they just twist my arms to do this without actually thinking about making this easier for their clients! The prepaid status of the card was an issue, but when Divvy switched from MC to Visa, they had like 3+ months, when old cards worked, and you got the option to reissue them as Visa ones one by when at your convenience!
neverendingsigh 5y ago
I don't quite have hundreds of Privacy cards, but I have quite a few, and many for subscription services. Though I understand and welcome the core reason for the change, forcing users to do this migration in December—of all months—really necessitates a grim view of the value of our time and energy. The pre-paid debit product was limited, but far from broken. This could and should have waited another month. And the news shouldn't break on HN.
5y ago

bredren 5y ago

> In an attempt to stay current with changes in card network and bank requirements What were the most important changes from the networks in banks that precipitated this? Requiring an SSN is an important change. Did prior requirements not do enough to prevent abuse of their services?

d3d1rty 5y ago

This is a huge inconvenience, and dressing it up as an "Exciting Update" is Orwellian. I was a paying subscriber, but I'll be cancelling my subscription now.

sillysaurusx 5y ago

I'd like to thank privacy.com for making this change. It sounds like most people aren't aware, but recently merchants have been coming down hard on privacy.com. I've almost given up using it. Hetzner and GCP are the most problematic, but I've seen it elsewhere too. I'm not happy about having to reissue, but I will be happy if this forces vendors to take my privacy.com card. (Everyone else is complaining, so I thought I'd at least try to balance it out a little.) EDIT: Well, never mind. Apparently their new cards are still getting rejected. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29438181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29438181 I was really excited...

niij 5y ago

I didn't get an email about this, disappointing to find out first on HN. I assume there will be plenty of customers who just "miss" this and find out the hard way next month. Also 1 month notice during the holidays is really bad timing when you've had it available since early october.

technick 5y ago

First off let me start with how much I love your platform, I use it religiously. My experience has been great except for a few times it fell short and it's not something forgotten easily. My account has been suspended twice after trying to make purchases (both for under $50 purchases), one of them at a Ft Lauderdale pizza shop and the other was a online merchant. Both times I had to open support tickets and wait over 24 hours for support while I was locked out of my account. It turned out there's a blacklist of merchants that your not allowed to make purchases at but support couldn't give me the blacklist. So it's like a game of russian roulette if my account will get suspended for making purchases. Can you share any information on how this problem has been solved? I suggested to support that if someone is able to log in, pass 2fa, that should be enough to prove it's not fraudulent. I don't think support ever responded to my suggestions. Thank You

AdamJacobMuller 5y ago

Hi Jason, I posted this here originally, and wow this blew up, I think we've actually spoken over email as I was one of the earliest users of privacy. I've been using it for many years and abjectly love the service. I don't object to you reissuing cards. Like I mentioned in my other comment, I actually see a lot of positives (no more prepaid issues!), however, only giving people 30 days to update their cards in dozens (I literally have 81 open privacy cards) is "not fun" and up until now, using your service has been smooth, painless and something which this change (mostly the timing of it) just completely deflated. I updated like 4 or 5 cards so far, each one took me 5-10 minutes, on the outside I'm looking at (worst case) 13 hours of work I have to fit into the month of December (which with the holidays and year end biz items, is already the busiest). Yesterday, your service was just a dream to use, today it is a burden I have to find hours of time to fix. Sorry, I do truly love privacy and didn't post this to hurt you or privacy, but I hope you can extend the deadline. Best of luck to you and all of the privacy team.

edmcnulty101 5y ago

Just want to say,I LOVE your service! Thank you all for your hard work and what's been a flawless user experience up to this point. I've been with y'all since the very early days. I have no idea how you all make money but I hope you all are around for many years to come.

nikolay 5y ago

Also, it looks like we have to manually update them in 1Password. Out of hundreds of cards, I had only 5 listed for reussing. Why only 5?! Why not hundreds?