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I was doing algebra and Russian math word problems in 4th grade (maybe earlier, it's been a while). What exactly is the logic of pushing back mathematical train
by holonomically 5y ago
I was doing algebra and Russian math word problems in 4th grade (maybe earlier, it's been a while). What exactly is the logic of pushing back mathematical training to later grades? [1]
1: https://www.edhelper.com/geography/Russia_Math1.htm https://www.edhelper.com/geography/Russia_Math1.htm
- rhino369 5y ago" . . . as a means of promoting equity" and "The intent of the state mathematics framework, its designers say, is to maintain rigor while also helping remedy California’s achievement gaps for Black, Latino and low-income students, which remain some of the largest in the nation. It's Harrison Bergeron Math.
- imtringued 5y agoSo you're saying this is a way to avoid spending money on black schools?
- logicalmonster 5y agoIs there an achievement gap for other groups such as Asian students?
- jdkee 5y agoAsian students outperform their white peers. See https://infogram.com/mathdisparities-ag-1h984wd3y7lv2p3 https://infogram.com/mathdisparities-ag-1h984wd3y7lv2p3
- coolspot 5y agoNo, even for Asians from poor countries and with language barrier. But we are not allowed to talk about that.
- holonomically 5y agoTalk about what?
- coolspot 5y agoExactly! You are getting hang of it!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tomp 5y agoNot just Asians, even Africans (blacks), e.g. Nigerians - they even outperform local (US) whites!
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y agoYes. But I'm afraid in the opposite direction.
- rahimnathwani 5y agoI had to look this up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron "In the year 2081, the 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments to the Constitution dictate that all Americans are fully equal and not allowed to be smarter, better-looking, or more physically able than anyone else. The Handicapper General's agents enforce the equality laws, forcing citizens to wear "handicaps": masks for those who are too beautiful, loud radios that disrupt thoughts inside the ears of intelligent people, and heavy weights for the strong or athletic."
- jl2718 5y agoI heard this story in 5th grade. I remembered it again at DEFCON 22. That guy, Stephen Watt; that’s him. That’s the guy the story was about. https://youtu.be/TWzvXaxR6us https://youtu.be/TWzvXaxR6us
- Mizza 5y agoHuh, didn't know he was still active after going to prison. That's nice to see.
- JetAlone 5y agoVive L'Empereur.
- tppiotrowski 5y agoSecond grade in Poland I remember problems like this when learning addition and subtraction: 3 + ? = 10 10 - ? = 3
- watwut 5y agoThey dont do abstract manipulations. They dont do the "3 + ? = 10" and therefore "10 - ? = 3". Teaching algebra means teaching abstract manipulations too, like 2x+4=10 and therefore (2x+4)/2=10/2 and therefore x + 2 = 5 and therefore x=3. The thing you wrote here does not count as teaching algebra. It is just one preparatory step and has nothing to do with delaying algebra or not.
- holonomically 5y agoYup, even 2x2 systems of equations. This stuff isn't hard, I don't get what the folks in the US are thinking.
- TimTheTinker 5y agoThey're thinking that teaching people stuff is promoting a diversity of outcomes, which is anathema at the moment. Diversity is supposed to only extend as far as categories one mustn't use to discriminate (age, race, sex, religion, etc.). If it occurs in other areas (achievement level, ability in particular subjects) ... oooh that's bad. Must make it stop.
- holonomically 5y agoI don't understand what this means. Where I went to school there were no gifted programs but we all were doing algebra and word problems much earlier than in the US. If people want consistent outcomes then teach everyone the same thing and hold everyone up to the same standards by investing more resources in students that are underachieving. That to me seems like a much better way of equalizing outcomes.
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
- cortesoft 5y agoAnd Mozart was writing concertos at 5. Prodigies existing shouldn't define how we educate people.
- holonomically 5y agoNo one in any of my classes was a prodigy. We had good teachers that cared about the students (and parents that were involved in their children's education). But I do think we should have had more musical training than just choir singing.
- tremon 5y agoShould Mozart have been kept away from musical instruments because his peers weren't at his level? In other words, should people existing define how we educate prodigies? Who gets to determine who is a prodigy and who isn't, and at what age?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Should Mozart have been kept away from musical instruments because his peers weren't at his level? In his consumption of publicly-funded universal education? Or...something completely irrelevant?
- cortesoft 5y agoNo one is disallowing kids from having access to advanced math.
- carabiner 5y agoGood for you. I met kids in 4th grade who struggled with their multiplication tables. What do you do for them?
- watwut 5y ago> I met kids in 4th grade who struggled with their multiplication tables. What do you do for them? That is when multiplication tables are actually taught. Multiplication itself starts to be taught before, but 4th grade is when the full tables are expected to be learned. So, you have met kids that struggle to learn multiplication tables when they are first introduced to them. Which is actually fine, it is ok to struggle at first before getting it.
- holonomically 5y agoSpend some extra time figuring out why they're struggling. But I suspect what you have in mind is something else, something more along the lines of leaving them behind.
- carabiner 5y agoYour words. Not mine.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ryan93 5y agoThis thread is full of some of the least empathetic people on the planet. Some people just struggle with stuff that others don’t.
- dmitrygr 5y agoI struggled with basketball in PE. The teacher said that maybe it just wasn't for me, and had me sit on the bench for the rest of the basketball unit. For some reason they didn’t force EVERYONE to sit for six weeks cause I couldn’t basketball. Now explain to me how math differs.
- candybar 5y agoThis isn't that different from 2nd and 3rd grade math in the US. There's no algebra in your link, but either way, you're confusing algebraic concepts, which are typically introduced in grade school even in the US and Algebra 1, which is just a conveniently named part of the overall math curriculum, not one that introduces Algebraic concepts for the first time.
- holonomically 5y agoReally? Setting up equations with unknown variables and solving them is not algebra?
- candybar 5y agoThe page you linked to doesn't have a single problem that requires "setting up equations with unknown variables and solving them." And as I mentioned, even in the US, "Algebra 1" isn't when Algebra in the sense of equations and variables is first introduced. Algebraic concepts are explicitly introduced around 5th grade (https://www.khanacademy.org/math/cc-fifth-grade-math/imp-algebraic-thinking https://www.khanacademy.org/math/cc-fifth-grade-math/imp-alg...), but problems that could easily be considered algebraic (whether through word problems or explicit placeholders) may be introduced as early as 2nd/3rd grade.
- holonomically 5y ago> Oleg owes his friend, Ivan, 100 rubles. Oleg has only 50 rubles. How many more rubles (x) does Oleg have to get to repay Ivan? 50 + x = 100 ↔ x = 100 - 50 = 50. I definitely linked to something that has word problems that can be converted to algebraic equations in 1 unknown.
- candybar 5y agoThis isn't how that problem was meant to be solved - it's meant to be a straightforward subtraction problem. For instance, this is a US 2nd grade subtraction word problem from Khan Academy: Sparky the dragon was born with 28 spikes. He grew several more spikes as he got older. Now Sparky has 80 spikes. How many new spikes did Sparky grow? Sure, this could be expressed as an algebra problem, 28 + X = 80, but the intention here is quite clearly for the student to see it as a subtraction problem. https://www.khanacademy.org/math/cc-2nd-grade-math/cc-2nd-add-subtract-100/cc-2nd-add-sub-100-word-problems/e/addition-and-subtraction-word-problems-within-100--level-2?modal=1 https://www.khanacademy.org/math/cc-2nd-grade-math/cc-2nd-ad...