12 ms·

Tracking Crucial Metrics of Earth's Global Warming

89 points by a2x 5y ago

tdrdt 5y ago
Does anyone know why the change at the north pole is bigger than the south pole? Is this because the north pole is floating on water?
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  I think the biggest factor differentiating the climate on the halves of the globe is that there's more landmass on the upper* bit of the Earth, so my first guess would be that the difference is tied to this overall difference. *Comment by the North Hemisphere Gang
- ximeng 5y ago
  https://www.news18.com/amp/news/buzz/global-warning-north-pole-is-heating-up-twice-as-fast-as-the-rest-of-the-earth-3159197.html https://www.news18.com/amp/news/buzz/global-warning-north-po... This suggests that when the ice melts the darker water absorbs more energy from the light, and then warmer water freezes less resulting in a permanently warmer arctic.
- Muromec 5y ago
  Because co2 is not evenly distributed with most polluters concentrated in northern hemisphere and prevailing wind direction to be from equator to poles.
  - wcoenen 5y ago
    Any air moving towards the poles must necessarily be balanced by air moving away from the poles. This manifests as "Hadley cells" and other similar wind patterns. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Earth_Global_Circulation_-_en.svg/660px-Earth_Global_Circulation_-_en.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Ea...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
I really dislike the use of the word "anomaly" in climate change circles. It may be technically correct, but it feels like propaganda. All it is is the difference to the average of an arbitrarily chosen time frame. It would actually be strange if temperatures where exactly like the average all the time, so calling it an anomaly if they are different from the average really seems misleading. Again, it may be the technically correct term, but it has a different meaning in "normal language" imo. The trend of the temperature may be "anomal", but that is not what they call an "anomaly".
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  Anomaly relative to the climate without the extra human forcings, like how you could call the dead forest from acid rains an "anomaly". A simple average of a reference period is used as reference for simplicity but is by the fact that climate change is happening much faster than typical climate variations so it's fine for now: the difference is (still) essentially entirely out fault.
  - tdrdt 5y ago
    I think the point parent is making is that it is possible to cherrypick a reference period. You can say that the melting of glaciers is an anomaly but when an ancient forest appears below the melted glacier how can we agree on what an anomaly is? I don't want to deny global warming but I agree with the parent that it's difficult to state what an anomaly is.
    - dpierce9 5y ago
      It is true that you don’t want anomalies to be anomalous only with respect to some arbitrarily chosen (or sought) feature of the reference periods. The solution to this is to do sensitivity analysis of the anomaly to these ‘arbitrary’ features (length, starting/ending points). With most climate things, anomalies will persist. This is a standard thing to do.
- 7952 5y ago
  Comparing to a baseline is useful because that is what our culture, technology and habits are adapted to. And the conditions that ecosystems can be based on. An increase in temperature away from that has consequences that need to be understood.
crispyporkbites 5y ago
+6 degrees above the 30 year average in the north pole this year I knew it was up but that is a LOT
marstall 5y ago
I'm presuming that the foundation here is solid and well-intentioned, but there are many different data sources that could be powering these visualizations so a clearer citation would be helpful (beyond what is provided, just the orgs, Berkeley earth+nasa).
- mistermann 5y ago
  I'd like to see some innovation in reporting on the human side of the puzzle....how people perceive the problem of global warming, how they feel about it, what is behind how they feel about it, etc. Maybe it's just me, but preaching to the choir with ever more impressive science is not moving the ball forward very fast, and if you trust the science, moving the ball forward quickly is an ability that is crucially important.
bowmessage 5y ago
I really like this website. Well presented and informative. I have been daydreaming of creating something similar that enabled testing weather hypotheses that are often thrown around by the media. E.g., "Heavy Vancouver Rainfall Due to Climate Change". It would be great to get rainfall information for that area graphed over the last X years. Does anyone have pointers to useful datasets or APIs that could aid in creating such a tool or website?
- neffy 5y ago
  Here is one (artic temperatures): http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php It's also quite useful in terms of seeing one aspect of the anomaly, in terms of temperature shift (compare 1958 with anything in the last 5 years)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
esarbe 5y ago
Maybe visualizations like these will finally get the message through to the last bastions of ignorance. Or maybe not. If at this point you are still pretend to be skeptical about the data, it's probably more to do with willful blindness rather than intellectual rigor and no amount of data will ever convince you otherwise. Truth is that lots and lots of people benefit from that continued 'doubt' delaying further actions. Even though in the end we'll all suffer the devastating consequences - the political upheavals, the social unrest, the ecological destruction - there are still people that are so obtuse as to think that this will not tough them. Party 'til the house burns down, I guess.
- laichzeit0 5y ago
  I have a feeling that the climate change charts induce a similar knee jerk reaction as IQ scores or vaccines. Most people have an ideology they subscribe to and will argue using facts and reason in order to support it. I have yet to witness a religious person be reasoned into atheism. I suspect the applies for the above mentioned categories, whatever side of the fence the person happens to be on.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    Charts and visualisations are a great way to trick people. Not only is the source data obscured (and so readily cherry picked) but it opens up all sorts of tricks around visual perception. I also suspect most people yet to be convinced will immediately think back to Al Gore's infamous hockey stick chart when presented with visual simplifications of deeply complex climate data. At the heart of the matter, looking at such a chart isn't meant to inform you, it is meant to elicit an emotional response, and they have been trained to respond with skepticism.
    - DangitBobby 5y ago
      They have been trained to deny evidence that leads to conclusions they don't like.
    - SiempreViernes 5y ago
Nexus1 5y ago
Great visualization of climate change metrics. Like the idea and the implementation.
ogwh 5y ago
Website briefly flashes then disappears on mobile apparently.
- a2x 5y ago
  Hey ogwh, are you still having this issue? Can you share the browser and version you are using?
seventytwo 5y ago
Add a chart that shows the global subsidies the fossil fuel industry gets over time.

89 points by a2x 5y ago

Does anyone know why the change at the north pole is bigger than the south pole? Is this because the north pole is floating on water?

SiempreViernes 5y ago
I think the biggest factor differentiating the climate on the halves of the globe is that there's more landmass on the upper* bit of the Earth, so my first guess would be that the difference is tied to this overall difference. *Comment by the North Hemisphere Gang
ximeng 5y ago
https://www.news18.com/amp/news/buzz/global-warning-north-pole-is-heating-up-twice-as-fast-as-the-rest-of-the-earth-3159197.html https://www.news18.com/amp/news/buzz/global-warning-north-po... This suggests that when the ice melts the darker water absorbs more energy from the light, and then warmer water freezes less resulting in a permanently warmer arctic.
Muromec 5y ago
Because co2 is not evenly distributed with most polluters concentrated in northern hemisphere and prevailing wind direction to be from equator to poles.
- wcoenen 5y ago
  Any air moving towards the poles must necessarily be balanced by air moving away from the poles. This manifests as "Hadley cells" and other similar wind patterns. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Earth_Global_Circulation_-_en.svg/660px-Earth_Global_Circulation_-_en.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Ea...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

I really dislike the use of the word "anomaly" in climate change circles. It may be technically correct, but it feels like propaganda. All it is is the difference to the average of an arbitrarily chosen time frame. It would actually be strange if temperatures where exactly like the average all the time, so calling it an anomaly if they are different from the average really seems misleading. Again, it may be the technically correct term, but it has a different meaning in "normal language" imo. The trend of the temperature may be "anomal", but that is not what they call an "anomaly".

SiempreViernes 5y ago
Anomaly relative to the climate without the extra human forcings, like how you could call the dead forest from acid rains an "anomaly". A simple average of a reference period is used as reference for simplicity but is by the fact that climate change is happening much faster than typical climate variations so it's fine for now: the difference is (still) essentially entirely out fault.
- tdrdt 5y ago
  I think the point parent is making is that it is possible to cherrypick a reference period. You can say that the melting of glaciers is an anomaly but when an ancient forest appears below the melted glacier how can we agree on what an anomaly is? I don't want to deny global warming but I agree with the parent that it's difficult to state what an anomaly is.
  - dpierce9 5y ago
    It is true that you don’t want anomalies to be anomalous only with respect to some arbitrarily chosen (or sought) feature of the reference periods. The solution to this is to do sensitivity analysis of the anomaly to these ‘arbitrary’ features (length, starting/ending points). With most climate things, anomalies will persist. This is a standard thing to do.
7952 5y ago
Comparing to a baseline is useful because that is what our culture, technology and habits are adapted to. And the conditions that ecosystems can be based on. An increase in temperature away from that has consequences that need to be understood.

crispyporkbites 5y ago

+6 degrees above the 30 year average in the north pole this year I knew it was up but that is a LOT

marstall 5y ago

I'm presuming that the foundation here is solid and well-intentioned, but there are many different data sources that could be powering these visualizations so a clearer citation would be helpful (beyond what is provided, just the orgs, Berkeley earth+nasa).

mistermann 5y ago
I'd like to see some innovation in reporting on the human side of the puzzle....how people perceive the problem of global warming, how they feel about it, what is behind how they feel about it, etc. Maybe it's just me, but preaching to the choir with ever more impressive science is not moving the ball forward very fast, and if you trust the science, moving the ball forward quickly is an ability that is crucially important.

bowmessage 5y ago

I really like this website. Well presented and informative. I have been daydreaming of creating something similar that enabled testing weather hypotheses that are often thrown around by the media. E.g., "Heavy Vancouver Rainfall Due to Climate Change". It would be great to get rainfall information for that area graphed over the last X years. Does anyone have pointers to useful datasets or APIs that could aid in creating such a tool or website?

neffy 5y ago
Here is one (artic temperatures): http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php It's also quite useful in terms of seeing one aspect of the anomaly, in terms of temperature shift (compare 1958 with anything in the last 5 years)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

esarbe 5y ago

Maybe visualizations like these will finally get the message through to the last bastions of ignorance. Or maybe not. If at this point you are still pretend to be skeptical about the data, it's probably more to do with willful blindness rather than intellectual rigor and no amount of data will ever convince you otherwise. Truth is that lots and lots of people benefit from that continued 'doubt' delaying further actions. Even though in the end we'll all suffer the devastating consequences - the political upheavals, the social unrest, the ecological destruction - there are still people that are so obtuse as to think that this will not tough them. Party 'til the house burns down, I guess.

laichzeit0 5y ago
I have a feeling that the climate change charts induce a similar knee jerk reaction as IQ scores or vaccines. Most people have an ideology they subscribe to and will argue using facts and reason in order to support it. I have yet to witness a religious person be reasoned into atheism. I suspect the applies for the above mentioned categories, whatever side of the fence the person happens to be on.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Charts and visualisations are a great way to trick people. Not only is the source data obscured (and so readily cherry picked) but it opens up all sorts of tricks around visual perception. I also suspect most people yet to be convinced will immediately think back to Al Gore's infamous hockey stick chart when presented with visual simplifications of deeply complex climate data. At the heart of the matter, looking at such a chart isn't meant to inform you, it is meant to elicit an emotional response, and they have been trained to respond with skepticism.
  - DangitBobby 5y ago
    They have been trained to deny evidence that leads to conclusions they don't like.
  - SiempreViernes 5y ago

Nexus1 5y ago

Great visualization of climate change metrics. Like the idea and the implementation.

ogwh 5y ago

Website briefly flashes then disappears on mobile apparently.

a2x 5y ago
Hey ogwh, are you still having this issue? Can you share the browser and version you are using?

seventytwo 5y ago

Add a chart that shows the global subsidies the fossil fuel industry gets over time.