7 ms·

Apple Maps' Acceleration (2020)

153 points by chenglou 5y ago

throwawaysea 5y ago
This article is from last year but the latest iOS 15 updates show how mature Apple maps has become (see https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/). It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps. It has beautiful rendering and easy readability, and I haven’t encountered odd routing issues for a couple years now. The added privacy is a welcome bonus. The only thing missing is a way to report police presence like on Waze. I’ve been impressed by Apple’s pace and wish there was more I could read about their engineering and product journey for the maps product.
- aquir 5y ago
  This is might be true but only if you live the US. In the UK, Apple Maps is not par with Google Maps unfortunately.
  - Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
    But then, if you live in the UK, Google Maps is not par with Ordnance Survey, or in many places, OpenStreetMap. (This depends, obviously, on what you want from a map. I'm not a motorist.)
    - SirHound 5y ago
      This might be true if you're walking up a hill but its not true if you're trying to go to a specific place (restaurant/shop etc) with opening times via any mode of transport.
  - larrysalibra 5y ago
    It's not the UK, but in Hong Kong on iOS 15, Apple Maps now automatically taps you on the wrist (apple watch) right before it's time to get off the public bus at your stop. It is freakishly accurate.
    - pfranz 5y ago
      It's a very nice feature. I'm not quite sure of what metric they're using. Some busses can show real-time locations, others they obviously dont have that info. Sometimes it will ping me a stop early (if the stops are close together?). I do wish there was a way to either stop directions on the phone, or put it in low power mode. It seems to eat my battery on long bus trips if its just sitting in my pocket. On car trips with directions I'm often charging the phone. On the bus or when walking I'm often not. In practice, there are still some annoying wrinkles. It often assumes I boarded a bus when I'm not quite to the bus stop. So I have to tap and swipe a few times to go back, find out which platform or when the next bus arrives. If you have a moderate walk to or from the bus stop, the walking directions are frankly bad. I often quit and redo that part as only walking to get turn by turn. I know the watch has a much more limited screen, but I end up having to pull out my phone for some of those specific details like the platform or when the next bus is scheduled.
      - mcphage 5y ago
        > I'm not quite sure of what metric they're using. Some busses can show real-time locations, others they obviously dont have that info Why would they need to know where the bus is, when they already know where you are?
        pfranz 5y ago
        That might work for a bus out in the open, but GPS doesn't work well with a lot of nearby tall buildings, or for subways underground. Maybe they are using GPS and silently failing in all other situations? My point is that it's nice when it works but could use some improvement on whatever method they're using.
- deergomoo 5y ago
  While the maps themselves are excellent, it's a shame you lose out on Google's frankly ridiculous business data. I've had Apple Maps route me to a café that was temporarily closed, while Google Maps knew it was closed, for example. I find I prefer to use Apple Maps for driving because it's just a nicer experience (though that's largely due to having hooks in iOS that Google Maps is not allowed), but I still don't really trust it when walking around a city. I'm in the UK so I'm not sure if it's better in the US, but it's not there yet over here.
  - pfranz 5y ago
    In my experience, Covid has screwed up everybody's data. Apple seems to pull from Foursquare or Yelp or something, but I've seen Google, Apple, Foursquare and Yelp all of the different, incorrect hours. I think some of them have added flags/fields for temporary hours because of it. Apple and Yelp seem to make it really easy to give them new hours. You can either write them in or just take a photo of the hours and they'll do it. For Apple, you get an alert in about a week that the changes were posted. Years ago, I noticed Yelp wasn't used much internationally. The well rated-places were often touristy. With Apple, I have noticed "food" won't have many good results in some countries. I feel like the same applies to Google, but since I don't primarily use it I'm not sure its fair to say that.
  - chedabob 5y ago
    I think Google's correction workflow helps massively with keeping the data up to date. I can submit a correction for a misplaced business or wrong opening hours, and it's live on the map within hours, but more often minutes. Recently I had to submit a correction to a typo in a business name to Apple Maps and it took over a week.
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    > it's a shame you lose out on Google's frankly ridiculous business data In India, Apple Maps has compensated for this - they have purchased this data from JustDial.com ... However, Apple Maps still remains inferior to both Google Maps and HERE Maps due to lack of data. It's a Catch-22 for Apple as even if people want to use Apple Maps its poor user experience forces users back to its better competitor and without the users using it, it cannot improve itself. Google Maps is nearly unbeatable in India due to the sheer amount of data it collects every single day from Android Phones and "crowdsourcing" from its users has made it really good at routing - for e.g. in Bangalore's insane traffic, its algorithm is quite good in considering both shortest popular routes + traffic to suggest routes that will take the shortest time to reach a destination. HERE maps is quite good too and is quite popular in India because it allows its maps to be downloaded for offline use. (Google was forced to add this feature too. Apple Maps in India still doesn't have this feature).
- mapmap 5y ago
  You can report things. Even with Siri.
- pverghese 5y ago
  Nowhere close to how accurate Google is in India
- gullevek 5y ago
  Apple Maps really look nice. But depending where you are the information can be shocking barren. Especially in Japan. They look really great but there is no labels, or anything. And if they are not as well double labeled (english and japanese). They are amazing compared what crap we got back in 2012 or so when apple maps replaced google maps.
- gmac 5y ago
  I'd love to use Apple maps for driving directions, but I just can't get used to its mostly-overhead navigation view. I regularly take wrong turnings when following Apple Maps, which almost never happens with Google Maps or TomTom.
- spideymans 5y ago
  Can’t speak for elsewhere in the world, but I find Apple’s navigation quality to be at least on par with Google’s here in Canada. Its biggest deficiency for me now is its relatively poor point-of-interest data
- bori5 5y ago
  “Easy readability” on this point I find myself wishing there was a way to make street names and fonts in general bigger in Apple Maps. Also green font on green backgrounds, why ? In terms of planning there is still no way to add multiple routes along the way which would be a nice addition.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    A lot of Apple products have bad font issues, and Apple Maps is among the worst. There's simply no way anyone at Apple has checked contrast or font size for accessibility in Apple Maps. Once the road labels were so frustratingly small that I took a screenshot and opened it in Photoshop just to see how small it was. One label was 4px. Another was 6px. How is anyone supposed to read a six pixel tall word? Here's an example of Apple Maps using a FIVE PIXEL TALL font: https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 Seriously?
  - Someone 5y ago
    _If_ you can live with having larger text in other apps, too, you can do that in the accessibility settings.
    - bori5 5y ago
      That helps at the expense of everything else now borked, but I wonder what is so hard about having a per app font setting ?
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  Speaking of Waze (which is originally an Israeli company, if you didn't know): I was in Tel Aviv in 2017 in a rental car at Ben Gurion airport, trying to find the rental car return. The signs all pointed me one way, and Google Maps agreed. I followed them, and got to a place where Google said "your destination is on the left." I cursed "no, it f&cking isn't!" After much driving around and stopping to ask people, I finally found it. The rental car company had given me a sheet of paper saying where it really was, which I had neglected to look at (never having had a problem before). I never checked to see if Waze had it right.
- Cipater 5y ago
  >It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps. In North America. Google maps is accurate down to minute details in African countries.
sandgiant 5y ago
> Perhaps the most noticeable difference between Apple’s old and new maps is all of the vegetation detail Apple has added. I really don't understand the way they blend forests and fields together. It used to be that forests and grasslands were marked green and agricultural land was white, so you could easily tell the difference. Now they are the same, or nearly the same, color while the difference in landscape is massive. To actually tell the difference now you have to switch to the satellite map. I don't see how this is adding more detail. If anything it's providing less information.
- asutekku 5y ago
  It makes it prettier since a fields in the aerial view are not aesthetically very pleasing.
echelon 5y ago
I still don't get it. Apple is a company people cheer for, yet it continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power. They don't let you repair devices, install your own software, or run your business unfettered. They spy on your files. They coddle and report to authoritarian governments. This monopoly is lauded and praised as it continues to get bigger and encompass everything one does. I don't understand it. It hurts to watch this.
- weikju 5y ago
  They make stuff people want to buy and overall devices that people can use to get things done. Unpopular opinion around here I know.
- deergomoo 5y ago
  You're not wrong, but you're making the classic Hacker News mistake by assuming that the average person gives even the slightest crap about any of that stuff—or if they do, that they are directly affected by it. Apple makes (mostly, with some fairly large asterisks attached) reliable devices, with all the software most people want to run. Most people do not sell apps and therefore are not familiar with the bullshit that is App Store policy. And many of their customers are based in the west, where their stance on privacy at least _seems_ substantially better than their big tech alternatives. For those based in China, coddling with an authoritarian government is just business as usual. The most important factor to most people, myself included for the most part, is that they make devices people enjoy using.
- thinkingemote 5y ago
  Brand and personal investment of time and money in that brand means people will defend their investment. It's why you can detect so much anger and pain in anti apple threads, because people's personalities are wrapped up with the brand. A consumer doesn't just get one apple device, or just use one apple app, they buy the watch, phone, desktop, laptop, subscriptions, walled garden store, etc, and it works. It's a family which is hard to leave because you like it there.
  - spideymans 5y ago
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dchest 5y ago
Meanwhile, in other parts of the world it cannot even get the shape of land and country borders right. Here's an example on the border of Montenegro and Albania: https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  Google Maps is better[1] but none of them come even remotely close of Open Street Maps[2] [1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z [2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/19.4111 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/...
  - avereveard 5y ago
    Bah, these map both cannot escape being politicised. One shows Monte Bianco summit in France, the other at the border.
    - littlestymaar 5y ago
      Maps are political objects by definition: they represents borders which are nothing but political concepts.
      - avereveard 5y ago
        not really in this case, it's important to know which state's emergency service to call depending on which side of the real border you are.
        littlestymaar 5y ago
        Given that both country consider the area to be their, I guess you could call the one you want.
  - eliaspro 5y ago
asymmetric 5y ago
From 2020.
littlestymaar 5y ago
I still don't understand why Apple map is so bad compared to OpenStreetMap given that they contribute a lot to it (they are even the biggest company contributor to OSM). There must be a reason, legal or something, but why don't they just use OSM as a default for places they didn't map by themselves? [1]: https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-largest-collaborative-geospatial-projects/ https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-la...
- webmobdev 5y ago
  I think it might be because Apple will have to give visible attribution to OpenStreetMaps, which may attract users towards it to the detriment of Apple maps.
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    But why do they contribute then?!
    - webmobdev 5y ago
      They do use OpenStreetMaps data and give attribution to them as one of their sources. But if they were to only use OSM's data, people would cry foul that Apple maps is not giving them clear and visible attribution (for e.g. by adding a "OpenStreetMap" label on the map you are viewing in Apple Maps). Right now, except for maps source providers that legally require Apple to provide visible attribution somewhere in their UI, all attributions are tucked away somewhere in the internet - https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html
      - kyralis 5y ago
        OpenStreetMaps attribution is visible in the UI; look at the bottom of the screen when you're selecting the mapping overlay.
  - mikestew 5y ago
mulmen 5y ago
I’m on the big island of Hawaii and Apple Maps is basically useless. I can’t find my hostel by name. I also can’t find it by address. It’s just very bad.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  Do you think street names and place names being in Hawaiian might have anything to do with this?
  - mulmen 5y ago
    I think it has more to do with a lack of competence on the part of the maps team. Place names are just strings.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Hopefully not, I was under the impression that my iPhone respected diversity and inclusion!
- barkerja 5y ago
  This is actually somewhat surprising given that Hawaii was one of the first states to get surveyed directly by Apple. Is it a recent address? And have you tried reporting it? My personal experience is Apple is pretty responsive to (all) Maps reports.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
I’m using Apple Maps for the app that I’m developing now. The alternative would not have been Google Maps. It would have been MapBox. Google Maps will give app developers like me severe sticker shock. I watched a friend of mine get it in the shorts (forcing him to switch to MapBox). After watching that, I decided that I will never depend on Google services as a linchpin technology. In fact, it simply hardened my resolve to avoid third-party dependence, wherever possible. When I started the project I’m working on now, Apple Maps had already grown to cover all of the US, albeit not as well as Google Maps. I’ve been seeing Apple Maps cars driving around here, for at least a couple of years. I’m pretty confident that relying on Apple Maps was not a mistake.
- MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
  Did you consider here.com, and if not, why?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    Yeah, but I have seen MapBox in action in a number of apps, and have yet to see one native app, delivered with here.com. As it is, I even decided against using MapBox. I'd need to see it in use a bit more, before relying on it for my users. Most of what I do is free, or low-cost work, aimed at folks in need. In some cases, lives depend on my work, and there's little money or glory. That Google "squeal piggy!" thing I witnessed was quite sobering. People seem to be quite sanguine about putting all their eggs into one basket. I guess that's kind of necessary, these days, but we need to be careful about choosing baskets. I'm kind of a crusty, scarred ol' bastard. Takes more than a pretty Web site to get me on board, and I don't bring buckets of money with me, so I'm just not that attractive.
    - MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
      > Yeah, but I have seen MapBox in action in a number of apps, and have yet to see one native app, delivered with here.com. Makes sense. I encountered here.com once in a corporate setting, and was surprised that it was actually decent (at the time), but no further experience with it either. It doesn't seem to have a strong brand outside big corp.
rcarmo 5y ago
This needs a (2020) in the title.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GeekyBear 5y ago
Since this 2020 post, Apple's home grown map data has extended to all of the US and it's territories, Canada, Ireland, The U.K., Spain, Portugal, and Italy. I believe Australia is the next addition. https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 You can access the Apple Maps web interface through DuckDuckGo. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps
MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
I discovered that Google Maps is consuming a huge amount of data, several GB during my last vacation, nearly depleting my contingent. How does Apple Maps compare?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lnanek2 5y ago
  Google Maps does have an offline download option it offers occasionally if you know how to trigger it. Have never seen Apple Maps offer that.
  - MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
    It was an island and I downloaded it completely as offline map, didn't help at all. Or do you mean something else?
alberth 5y ago
Google = data company Apple = design company, who's getting better at being a data company As an aside, I really love reading these yearly posts from Justin. I always drop what I'm doing when I see one of these posts from him.
lnanek2 5y ago
Even if Apple Maps doesn't have as much data as Google, the experience is so much better. Makes a lot of sense that Google is copying it as per the article. Whenever I use Google Maps, it constantly harasses me about how there's a slowdown ahead, puts a little tray across the bottom of the screen hiding the information I care about, with no way to get rid of it except tapping and other nonsense. I searched throughout the settings and can't find anyway to turn off all these annoying pop ups it has. Someone needs to write an ad blocker for it. Apple Maps not only doesn't constantly harass me with meaningless notifications I can't dismiss without taking my hands off the wheel, it also shows traffic lights, and the voice over instructions include them as well. With Google I often turn too early or too late because it isn't very clear exactly when to turn. With Apple Maps that happens a lot less because Siri will flat out tell you, turn at this light, turn at the next light, etc..
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  Those popups autodismiss after something like 5-10 seconds
- mthoms 5y ago
  I've identified so many traffic lights for Google (via reCaptcha). Probably hundreds. I'm surprised they haven't integrated that info into maps yet. The free labor I've provided them is probably enough to cover an entire neighbourhood already :)
websap 5y ago
I've been recently trying out the new Apple maps' turn by turn navigation. Some of the directions are almost human like - "Take a left at next traffic light" Must say makes driving directions easier to follow compared to take a left on X street, when I can't even see what X street is at night.
- LindyTalker 5y ago
  I have noticed this as well. Much easier too when it's saying which lane to be in when you're exiting a highway
  - jiveturkey 5y ago
    The lane by lane is more harm than help IMHO. You often get an instruction like "use the left 2 lanes". But where you are when the instruction is given, the leftmost lane might be a forced early left turn. If you're unfamiliar with the location, this requires a lot of extra cognitive load, vs simply not giving that specificity at all. As well, traffic conditions change rapidly and the lane by lane doesn't account for that. In some easier situations, it's great, but it's a negative in more complex situations.
    - sixstringtheory 5y ago
      I’ve found their reporting mechanism for incorrect directions to be very easy to use and that they are responsive to the suggestions. Please leave a marker for the next poor soul who’d get snared in that trap!
- larrik 5y ago
  It seems great, and then on a rainy night while I'm running late it brought me to the wrong place... It was only about 200 yards up the road, but it brought me to someone's house, and had me turn in the wrong direction. So, I was even later...
  - websap 5y ago
gordon_freeman 5y ago
I recently started using Apple Maps in my car using CarPlay and just pleasantly surprised with some nice features as showing STOP and SIGNAL signs on the map so I know when to stop way beforehand in my mind rather than straining my eyes to look for those signs when I get closer to them. Makes a huge difference when you are tired and can not focus 100% when driving.
TedShiller 5y ago
To compete, Apple Maps will also need to have a fully accessible web version
- sixstringtheory 5y ago
  Why is that? As far as I can imagine, people using Apple maps, especially those requiring accessibility features, will be using the app on their phone.
  - mattlondon 5y ago
    It is embedded in various places on the web - e.g. duckduckgo uses it. You don't get a choice if the website owner forces it on you
- McElodeon 5y ago
  DuckDuckGo's maps are powered by Apple Maps, so technically they do.
  - TedShiller 5y ago
    that's cool, i had no idea
tylerrobinson 5y ago
Every time I've tried Apple Maps, I run into the same problem--it doesn't seem to predict your realtime location ahead by X feet to account for your speed and delay in GPS signal. Google Maps does this. The result is that on Apple Maps, your position is "behind" where you really are at the moment, and it's harder to make the turn. Google's tradeoff is that if you miss a turn, it will momentarily show your position as if you'd made the turn correctly. Perhaps this is a matter of preference, but I am much more successful at navigating while driving using Google Maps than with Apple Maps.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Possibly only Android Auto receives vehicle speed signal from a car? https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehiclePropertyIds https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehicleP...
  - tylerrobinson 5y ago
    I have never used Android or iOS car integrations. I am speaking from using GPS while driving, so I meant the app’s ability to calculate your speed based on GPS.
- uptown 5y ago
  I've noticed the same thing. I do use Apple Maps in Carplay, but have learned to anticipate what's shown on-screen in-relation to where I'm actually located. Seems like it's certainly fixable, but I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed already given that two random strangers on the internet highlight that as one of the service's primary weaknesses.
  - bezossucks 5y ago
    Has Apple ever factored user feedback into its designs? They seem pretty dictatorial in how they approach UX.. "Apple knows best, user will adjust." <-- typing this from a Mac, while learning how to use iPad's opaque gestures...
alushta 5y ago
Now if Apple Maps can only add a "north-up" option while navigating, instead of turning the map when I turn, causing me to lose all orientation!

153 points by chenglou 5y ago

This article is from last year but the latest iOS 15 updates show how mature Apple maps has become (see https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/). It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps. It has beautiful rendering and easy readability, and I haven’t encountered odd routing issues for a couple years now. The added privacy is a welcome bonus. The only thing missing is a way to report police presence like on Waze. I’ve been impressed by Apple’s pace and wish there was more I could read about their engineering and product journey for the maps product.

aquir 5y ago
This is might be true but only if you live the US. In the UK, Apple Maps is not par with Google Maps unfortunately.
- Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
  But then, if you live in the UK, Google Maps is not par with Ordnance Survey, or in many places, OpenStreetMap. (This depends, obviously, on what you want from a map. I'm not a motorist.)
  - SirHound 5y ago
    This might be true if you're walking up a hill but its not true if you're trying to go to a specific place (restaurant/shop etc) with opening times via any mode of transport.
- larrysalibra 5y ago
  It's not the UK, but in Hong Kong on iOS 15, Apple Maps now automatically taps you on the wrist (apple watch) right before it's time to get off the public bus at your stop. It is freakishly accurate.
  - pfranz 5y ago
    It's a very nice feature. I'm not quite sure of what metric they're using. Some busses can show real-time locations, others they obviously dont have that info. Sometimes it will ping me a stop early (if the stops are close together?). I do wish there was a way to either stop directions on the phone, or put it in low power mode. It seems to eat my battery on long bus trips if its just sitting in my pocket. On car trips with directions I'm often charging the phone. On the bus or when walking I'm often not. In practice, there are still some annoying wrinkles. It often assumes I boarded a bus when I'm not quite to the bus stop. So I have to tap and swipe a few times to go back, find out which platform or when the next bus arrives. If you have a moderate walk to or from the bus stop, the walking directions are frankly bad. I often quit and redo that part as only walking to get turn by turn. I know the watch has a much more limited screen, but I end up having to pull out my phone for some of those specific details like the platform or when the next bus is scheduled.
    - mcphage 5y ago
      > I'm not quite sure of what metric they're using. Some busses can show real-time locations, others they obviously dont have that info Why would they need to know where the bus is, when they already know where you are?
      - pfranz 5y ago
        That might work for a bus out in the open, but GPS doesn't work well with a lot of nearby tall buildings, or for subways underground. Maybe they are using GPS and silently failing in all other situations? My point is that it's nice when it works but could use some improvement on whatever method they're using.
deergomoo 5y ago
While the maps themselves are excellent, it's a shame you lose out on Google's frankly ridiculous business data. I've had Apple Maps route me to a café that was temporarily closed, while Google Maps knew it was closed, for example. I find I prefer to use Apple Maps for driving because it's just a nicer experience (though that's largely due to having hooks in iOS that Google Maps is not allowed), but I still don't really trust it when walking around a city. I'm in the UK so I'm not sure if it's better in the US, but it's not there yet over here.
- pfranz 5y ago
  In my experience, Covid has screwed up everybody's data. Apple seems to pull from Foursquare or Yelp or something, but I've seen Google, Apple, Foursquare and Yelp all of the different, incorrect hours. I think some of them have added flags/fields for temporary hours because of it. Apple and Yelp seem to make it really easy to give them new hours. You can either write them in or just take a photo of the hours and they'll do it. For Apple, you get an alert in about a week that the changes were posted. Years ago, I noticed Yelp wasn't used much internationally. The well rated-places were often touristy. With Apple, I have noticed "food" won't have many good results in some countries. I feel like the same applies to Google, but since I don't primarily use it I'm not sure its fair to say that.
- chedabob 5y ago
  I think Google's correction workflow helps massively with keeping the data up to date. I can submit a correction for a misplaced business or wrong opening hours, and it's live on the map within hours, but more often minutes. Recently I had to submit a correction to a typo in a business name to Apple Maps and it took over a week.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  > it's a shame you lose out on Google's frankly ridiculous business data In India, Apple Maps has compensated for this - they have purchased this data from JustDial.com ... However, Apple Maps still remains inferior to both Google Maps and HERE Maps due to lack of data. It's a Catch-22 for Apple as even if people want to use Apple Maps its poor user experience forces users back to its better competitor and without the users using it, it cannot improve itself. Google Maps is nearly unbeatable in India due to the sheer amount of data it collects every single day from Android Phones and "crowdsourcing" from its users has made it really good at routing - for e.g. in Bangalore's insane traffic, its algorithm is quite good in considering both shortest popular routes + traffic to suggest routes that will take the shortest time to reach a destination. HERE maps is quite good too and is quite popular in India because it allows its maps to be downloaded for offline use. (Google was forced to add this feature too. Apple Maps in India still doesn't have this feature).
mapmap 5y ago
You can report things. Even with Siri.
pverghese 5y ago
Nowhere close to how accurate Google is in India
gullevek 5y ago
Apple Maps really look nice. But depending where you are the information can be shocking barren. Especially in Japan. They look really great but there is no labels, or anything. And if they are not as well double labeled (english and japanese). They are amazing compared what crap we got back in 2012 or so when apple maps replaced google maps.
gmac 5y ago
I'd love to use Apple maps for driving directions, but I just can't get used to its mostly-overhead navigation view. I regularly take wrong turnings when following Apple Maps, which almost never happens with Google Maps or TomTom.
spideymans 5y ago
Can’t speak for elsewhere in the world, but I find Apple’s navigation quality to be at least on par with Google’s here in Canada. Its biggest deficiency for me now is its relatively poor point-of-interest data
bori5 5y ago
“Easy readability” on this point I find myself wishing there was a way to make street names and fonts in general bigger in Apple Maps. Also green font on green backgrounds, why ? In terms of planning there is still no way to add multiple routes along the way which would be a nice addition.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  A lot of Apple products have bad font issues, and Apple Maps is among the worst. There's simply no way anyone at Apple has checked contrast or font size for accessibility in Apple Maps. Once the road labels were so frustratingly small that I took a screenshot and opened it in Photoshop just to see how small it was. One label was 4px. Another was 6px. How is anyone supposed to read a six pixel tall word? Here's an example of Apple Maps using a FIVE PIXEL TALL font: https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 Seriously?
- Someone 5y ago
  _If_ you can live with having larger text in other apps, too, you can do that in the accessibility settings.
  - bori5 5y ago
    That helps at the expense of everything else now borked, but I wonder what is so hard about having a per app font setting ?
AlbertCory 5y ago
Speaking of Waze (which is originally an Israeli company, if you didn't know): I was in Tel Aviv in 2017 in a rental car at Ben Gurion airport, trying to find the rental car return. The signs all pointed me one way, and Google Maps agreed. I followed them, and got to a place where Google said "your destination is on the left." I cursed "no, it f&cking isn't!" After much driving around and stopping to ask people, I finally found it. The rental car company had given me a sheet of paper saying where it really was, which I had neglected to look at (never having had a problem before). I never checked to see if Waze had it right.
Cipater 5y ago
>It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps. In North America. Google maps is accurate down to minute details in African countries.

sandgiant 5y ago

> Perhaps the most noticeable difference between Apple’s old and new maps is all of the vegetation detail Apple has added. I really don't understand the way they blend forests and fields together. It used to be that forests and grasslands were marked green and agricultural land was white, so you could easily tell the difference. Now they are the same, or nearly the same, color while the difference in landscape is massive. To actually tell the difference now you have to switch to the satellite map. I don't see how this is adding more detail. If anything it's providing less information.

asutekku 5y ago
It makes it prettier since a fields in the aerial view are not aesthetically very pleasing.

echelon 5y ago

I still don't get it. Apple is a company people cheer for, yet it continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power. They don't let you repair devices, install your own software, or run your business unfettered. They spy on your files. They coddle and report to authoritarian governments. This monopoly is lauded and praised as it continues to get bigger and encompass everything one does. I don't understand it. It hurts to watch this.

weikju 5y ago
They make stuff people want to buy and overall devices that people can use to get things done. Unpopular opinion around here I know.
deergomoo 5y ago
You're not wrong, but you're making the classic Hacker News mistake by assuming that the average person gives even the slightest crap about any of that stuff—or if they do, that they are directly affected by it. Apple makes (mostly, with some fairly large asterisks attached) reliable devices, with all the software most people want to run. Most people do not sell apps and therefore are not familiar with the bullshit that is App Store policy. And many of their customers are based in the west, where their stance on privacy at least _seems_ substantially better than their big tech alternatives. For those based in China, coddling with an authoritarian government is just business as usual. The most important factor to most people, myself included for the most part, is that they make devices people enjoy using.
thinkingemote 5y ago
Brand and personal investment of time and money in that brand means people will defend their investment. It's why you can detect so much anger and pain in anti apple threads, because people's personalities are wrapped up with the brand. A consumer doesn't just get one apple device, or just use one apple app, they buy the watch, phone, desktop, laptop, subscriptions, walled garden store, etc, and it works. It's a family which is hard to leave because you like it there.
- spideymans 5y ago

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dchest 5y ago

Meanwhile, in other parts of the world it cannot even get the shape of land and country borders right. Here's an example on the border of Montenegro and Albania: https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH

littlestymaar 5y ago
Google Maps is better[1] but none of them come even remotely close of Open Street Maps[2] [1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z [2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/19.4111 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/...
- avereveard 5y ago
  Bah, these map both cannot escape being politicised. One shows Monte Bianco summit in France, the other at the border.
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    Maps are political objects by definition: they represents borders which are nothing but political concepts.
    - avereveard 5y ago
      not really in this case, it's important to know which state's emergency service to call depending on which side of the real border you are.
      - littlestymaar 5y ago
        Given that both country consider the area to be their, I guess you could call the one you want.
- eliaspro 5y ago

asymmetric 5y ago

From 2020.

littlestymaar 5y ago

I still don't understand why Apple map is so bad compared to OpenStreetMap given that they contribute a lot to it (they are even the biggest company contributor to OSM). There must be a reason, legal or something, but why don't they just use OSM as a default for places they didn't map by themselves? [1]: https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-largest-collaborative-geospatial-projects/ https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-la...

webmobdev 5y ago
I think it might be because Apple will have to give visible attribution to OpenStreetMaps, which may attract users towards it to the detriment of Apple maps.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  But why do they contribute then?!
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    They do use OpenStreetMaps data and give attribution to them as one of their sources. But if they were to only use OSM's data, people would cry foul that Apple maps is not giving them clear and visible attribution (for e.g. by adding a "OpenStreetMap" label on the map you are viewing in Apple Maps). Right now, except for maps source providers that legally require Apple to provide visible attribution somewhere in their UI, all attributions are tucked away somewhere in the internet - https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html
    - kyralis 5y ago
      OpenStreetMaps attribution is visible in the UI; look at the bottom of the screen when you're selecting the mapping overlay.
- mikestew 5y ago

mulmen 5y ago

I’m on the big island of Hawaii and Apple Maps is basically useless. I can’t find my hostel by name. I also can’t find it by address. It’s just very bad.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
Do you think street names and place names being in Hawaiian might have anything to do with this?
- mulmen 5y ago
  I think it has more to do with a lack of competence on the part of the maps team. Place names are just strings.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Hopefully not, I was under the impression that my iPhone respected diversity and inclusion!
barkerja 5y ago
This is actually somewhat surprising given that Hawaii was one of the first states to get surveyed directly by Apple. Is it a recent address? And have you tried reporting it? My personal experience is Apple is pretty responsive to (all) Maps reports.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

I’m using Apple Maps for the app that I’m developing now. The alternative would not have been Google Maps. It would have been MapBox. Google Maps will give app developers like me severe sticker shock. I watched a friend of mine get it in the shorts (forcing him to switch to MapBox). After watching that, I decided that I will never depend on Google services as a linchpin technology. In fact, it simply hardened my resolve to avoid third-party dependence, wherever possible. When I started the project I’m working on now, Apple Maps had already grown to cover all of the US, albeit not as well as Google Maps. I’ve been seeing Apple Maps cars driving around here, for at least a couple of years. I’m pretty confident that relying on Apple Maps was not a mistake.

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
Did you consider here.com, and if not, why?
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  Yeah, but I have seen MapBox in action in a number of apps, and have yet to see one native app, delivered with here.com. As it is, I even decided against using MapBox. I'd need to see it in use a bit more, before relying on it for my users. Most of what I do is free, or low-cost work, aimed at folks in need. In some cases, lives depend on my work, and there's little money or glory. That Google "squeal piggy!" thing I witnessed was quite sobering. People seem to be quite sanguine about putting all their eggs into one basket. I guess that's kind of necessary, these days, but we need to be careful about choosing baskets. I'm kind of a crusty, scarred ol' bastard. Takes more than a pretty Web site to get me on board, and I don't bring buckets of money with me, so I'm just not that attractive.
  - MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
    > Yeah, but I have seen MapBox in action in a number of apps, and have yet to see one native app, delivered with here.com. Makes sense. I encountered here.com once in a corporate setting, and was surprised that it was actually decent (at the time), but no further experience with it either. It doesn't seem to have a strong brand outside big corp.

rcarmo 5y ago

This needs a (2020) in the title.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

GeekyBear 5y ago

Since this 2020 post, Apple's home grown map data has extended to all of the US and it's territories, Canada, Ireland, The U.K., Spain, Portugal, and Italy. I believe Australia is the next addition. https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 You can access the Apple Maps web interface through DuckDuckGo. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago

I discovered that Google Maps is consuming a huge amount of data, several GB during my last vacation, nearly depleting my contingent. How does Apple Maps compare?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lnanek2 5y ago
Google Maps does have an offline download option it offers occasionally if you know how to trigger it. Have never seen Apple Maps offer that.
- MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
  It was an island and I downloaded it completely as offline map, didn't help at all. Or do you mean something else?

alberth 5y ago

Google = data company Apple = design company, who's getting better at being a data company As an aside, I really love reading these yearly posts from Justin. I always drop what I'm doing when I see one of these posts from him.

lnanek2 5y ago

Even if Apple Maps doesn't have as much data as Google, the experience is so much better. Makes a lot of sense that Google is copying it as per the article. Whenever I use Google Maps, it constantly harasses me about how there's a slowdown ahead, puts a little tray across the bottom of the screen hiding the information I care about, with no way to get rid of it except tapping and other nonsense. I searched throughout the settings and can't find anyway to turn off all these annoying pop ups it has. Someone needs to write an ad blocker for it. Apple Maps not only doesn't constantly harass me with meaningless notifications I can't dismiss without taking my hands off the wheel, it also shows traffic lights, and the voice over instructions include them as well. With Google I often turn too early or too late because it isn't very clear exactly when to turn. With Apple Maps that happens a lot less because Siri will flat out tell you, turn at this light, turn at the next light, etc..

Rebelgecko 5y ago
Those popups autodismiss after something like 5-10 seconds
mthoms 5y ago
I've identified so many traffic lights for Google (via reCaptcha). Probably hundreds. I'm surprised they haven't integrated that info into maps yet. The free labor I've provided them is probably enough to cover an entire neighbourhood already :)

websap 5y ago

I've been recently trying out the new Apple maps' turn by turn navigation. Some of the directions are almost human like - "Take a left at next traffic light" Must say makes driving directions easier to follow compared to take a left on X street, when I can't even see what X street is at night.

LindyTalker 5y ago
I have noticed this as well. Much easier too when it's saying which lane to be in when you're exiting a highway
- jiveturkey 5y ago
  The lane by lane is more harm than help IMHO. You often get an instruction like "use the left 2 lanes". But where you are when the instruction is given, the leftmost lane might be a forced early left turn. If you're unfamiliar with the location, this requires a lot of extra cognitive load, vs simply not giving that specificity at all. As well, traffic conditions change rapidly and the lane by lane doesn't account for that. In some easier situations, it's great, but it's a negative in more complex situations.
  - sixstringtheory 5y ago
    I’ve found their reporting mechanism for incorrect directions to be very easy to use and that they are responsive to the suggestions. Please leave a marker for the next poor soul who’d get snared in that trap!
larrik 5y ago
It seems great, and then on a rainy night while I'm running late it brought me to the wrong place... It was only about 200 yards up the road, but it brought me to someone's house, and had me turn in the wrong direction. So, I was even later...
- websap 5y ago

gordon_freeman 5y ago

I recently started using Apple Maps in my car using CarPlay and just pleasantly surprised with some nice features as showing STOP and SIGNAL signs on the map so I know when to stop way beforehand in my mind rather than straining my eyes to look for those signs when I get closer to them. Makes a huge difference when you are tired and can not focus 100% when driving.

TedShiller 5y ago

To compete, Apple Maps will also need to have a fully accessible web version

sixstringtheory 5y ago
Why is that? As far as I can imagine, people using Apple maps, especially those requiring accessibility features, will be using the app on their phone.
- mattlondon 5y ago
  It is embedded in various places on the web - e.g. duckduckgo uses it. You don't get a choice if the website owner forces it on you
McElodeon 5y ago
DuckDuckGo's maps are powered by Apple Maps, so technically they do.
- TedShiller 5y ago
  that's cool, i had no idea

tylerrobinson 5y ago

Every time I've tried Apple Maps, I run into the same problem--it doesn't seem to predict your realtime location ahead by X feet to account for your speed and delay in GPS signal. Google Maps does this. The result is that on Apple Maps, your position is "behind" where you really are at the moment, and it's harder to make the turn. Google's tradeoff is that if you miss a turn, it will momentarily show your position as if you'd made the turn correctly. Perhaps this is a matter of preference, but I am much more successful at navigating while driving using Google Maps than with Apple Maps.

fomine3 5y ago
Possibly only Android Auto receives vehicle speed signal from a car? https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehiclePropertyIds https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehicleP...
- tylerrobinson 5y ago
  I have never used Android or iOS car integrations. I am speaking from using GPS while driving, so I meant the app’s ability to calculate your speed based on GPS.
uptown 5y ago
I've noticed the same thing. I do use Apple Maps in Carplay, but have learned to anticipate what's shown on-screen in-relation to where I'm actually located. Seems like it's certainly fixable, but I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed already given that two random strangers on the internet highlight that as one of the service's primary weaknesses.
- bezossucks 5y ago
  Has Apple ever factored user feedback into its designs? They seem pretty dictatorial in how they approach UX.. "Apple knows best, user will adjust." <-- typing this from a Mac, while learning how to use iPad's opaque gestures...

alushta 5y ago

Now if Apple Maps can only add a "north-up" option while navigating, instead of turning the map when I turn, causing me to lose all orientation!