5 ms·

I don't see why this should come as a surprise. The government poisoned liquor during prohibition, injected plutonium into unwitting pregnant women, gave innoce

I don't see why this should come as a surprise. The government poisoned liquor during prohibition, injected plutonium into unwitting pregnant women, gave innocent people syphilis while giving them fake treatments to see how it killed them (and just for the heck of it because the victims were black), and on and on.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
This time all the experts from the government and pharmaceutical corporations have only our best interests at heart though.
- postpawl 5y ago
  The vaccine is working. Not everything the government and pharmaceutical companies do is bad.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Sure, that's what they said back then too. At any rate, the pathetic bootlicking and prostration to authoritarianism, and mob bullying of anybody who would dare to ask any questions of such pure and innocent institutions is pretty sickening.
    - dngray 5y ago
      The difference is we actually know what is in the vaccines and how they are produced. They're also not produced by one single company, we've got pfizer, moderna and a number of others working independently over international borders. Not only that there's not exactly much sense in having many people die of a preventable disease. That costs government both in reduced productivity and healthcare. It also encourages harsher health regulations to prevent spreading which in turn costs more money to corps who have to implement them.
      - carlmr 5y ago
        I got the vaccine so I personally don't believe that we're trying to kill and/or subjugate all of humanity right now. But this strikes me as odd: >The difference is we actually know what is in the vaccines and how they are produced. If you had designed the vaccine, produced all the inputs of the manufacturing process and the machines yourself, and then produced the vaccines which you then checked with machines to analyze the result and then analyzed it yourself, and then took that vial and injected it yourself with your own syringe and your own disinfectant, then you would "know" what you were injected with. My point is not to distrust the vaccines, or that any one person can realistically do this. "Trusting the science" and "trusting the vaccines" is in essence still trusting all other humans in that chain of events that led to the vaccine in your arm to have done their job properly, at least to the best of their abilities. Some people are now ready to trust the government on this more than others. I think there was a study once in mould or some other simple organism, I sadly can't find it. They found that even these simple lifeforms have the tendency to have outliers in behavior. When a high number, say 95%, of it goes towards a food source 5% will avoid it. This survival mechanism might kill the 5% more often than not, but if the opposite happens, the food is bad and kills the 95%, there is a reservoir of living cells that can spread. On a long enough timeline, as the article shows, trust will be broken. From an evolutionary perspective then it's good to have some outliers. The reasoning they use doesn't matter, survival is what matters.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        You're right, never ever have a bunch of corporations and governments colluded to be dishonest with people for their own gain. Never happened in anything related to the Middle East, South America, India, the Gulf of Mexico, tobacco, climate change, asbestos, banking bailouts, subprime mortgages, or anything else. Now let's all go bash the first fascist we find daring to question our benevolent corporate-government overlords.
        orwin 5y ago
        I find you way too harsh. Yes, you are right, cartels have existed, and still exist. But do you think France, China, Russia would just agree to everything a supposed US health cartel say? And the researchers in public labs, do you think they would agree to this cartel? I mean, they are the one who sounded the alerts on: tobacco, neonicotinoids, sugar? Maybe everyone in the world is on it. I find it unlikely myself, but its OK to believe it. And you are not a fascist for refusing the vaccine :/
  - pigeonhole123 5y ago
    Pfizer’s own study shows no effect on death
  - flyingcircus3 5y ago
    This is the problem with purveyors of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. They don't need logical consistency. They don't need to explain themselves, they don't even need a central point to their arguments. They aren't trying to prove anything, only to plant the seeds of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      Are you calling me a purveyor of FUD because I suggested that governments and corporations are not to be implicitly trusted?
      - flyingcircus3 5y ago
        No, I'm calling you one because you've played six degrees of vaccine misinformation on an article about the US government using herbicide. You haven't made any defensible claims, you've just injected uncertainty for uncertainty's sake.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        No I haven't, you must have misread.
        loudtieblahblah 5y ago
        He showed why a trust recession is a very real thing.. And you'd be ignorant to not take it in mind.
  - kook_throwaway 5y ago
    Maybe it is working, but being coerced to take a novel gene therapy from organizations with a long history of abuse is a horrific precedent that should offend everyone.
    - actually_a_dog 5y ago
      I assume you are referring to mRNA vaccines here. These are not in any way "gene therapy." Please quit spouting misinformation. For reference: > Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect[1] or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy mRNA vaccines do not modify cells, repair, or reconstruct anything.
      - kook_throwaway 5y ago
        Moderna and the FDA think it's a gene therapy. "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA." [1] >Please quit spouting misinformation. I like how you start with the word "please" so you can pretend you're being polite. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220000017/mrna-20200630.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220...
        hirako2000 5y ago
        You are brilliant. The disinformation has been so effective it created zealots constantly defending the side of pharmaceuticals, government measures, systemic control of movement and ultimately even how to treat our own health. Always using reverse accusations, especially when proven wrong or suddenly disappear, refuse to continue the argumentation, or minimise the gravity of their falsehood.
        kook_throwaway 5y ago
        The gravity of the falsehood is key to understanding. We have seen an incredible growth of authoritarianism, from the near daily 'Simon says' mandate changes, lockdowns, increased surveillance, destruction of small business, 12 trillion dollars printed, and coerced administration of a novel gene therapy. You have no choice but to be right with all of that on your shoulders, that's a lot to weigh down a conscience if one is wrong.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
Don’t forget that the CIA had to pinky swear not to use vaccine campaigns as cover for spy operations (anymore). https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/05/20/314231260/cia-says-it-will-no-longer-use-vaccine-programs-as-cover https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/05/20/314231260... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27489045 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27489045
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  Yep, and, thanks to that little fiasco, we lost significant ground in trying to eradicate polio worldwide.

throwawaylinux 5y ago

This time all the experts from the government and pharmaceutical corporations have only our best interests at heart though.

postpawl 5y ago
The vaccine is working. Not everything the government and pharmaceutical companies do is bad.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Sure, that's what they said back then too. At any rate, the pathetic bootlicking and prostration to authoritarianism, and mob bullying of anybody who would dare to ask any questions of such pure and innocent institutions is pretty sickening.
  - dngray 5y ago
    The difference is we actually know what is in the vaccines and how they are produced. They're also not produced by one single company, we've got pfizer, moderna and a number of others working independently over international borders. Not only that there's not exactly much sense in having many people die of a preventable disease. That costs government both in reduced productivity and healthcare. It also encourages harsher health regulations to prevent spreading which in turn costs more money to corps who have to implement them.
    - carlmr 5y ago
      I got the vaccine so I personally don't believe that we're trying to kill and/or subjugate all of humanity right now. But this strikes me as odd: >The difference is we actually know what is in the vaccines and how they are produced. If you had designed the vaccine, produced all the inputs of the manufacturing process and the machines yourself, and then produced the vaccines which you then checked with machines to analyze the result and then analyzed it yourself, and then took that vial and injected it yourself with your own syringe and your own disinfectant, then you would "know" what you were injected with. My point is not to distrust the vaccines, or that any one person can realistically do this. "Trusting the science" and "trusting the vaccines" is in essence still trusting all other humans in that chain of events that led to the vaccine in your arm to have done their job properly, at least to the best of their abilities. Some people are now ready to trust the government on this more than others. I think there was a study once in mould or some other simple organism, I sadly can't find it. They found that even these simple lifeforms have the tendency to have outliers in behavior. When a high number, say 95%, of it goes towards a food source 5% will avoid it. This survival mechanism might kill the 5% more often than not, but if the opposite happens, the food is bad and kills the 95%, there is a reservoir of living cells that can spread. On a long enough timeline, as the article shows, trust will be broken. From an evolutionary perspective then it's good to have some outliers. The reasoning they use doesn't matter, survival is what matters.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      You're right, never ever have a bunch of corporations and governments colluded to be dishonest with people for their own gain. Never happened in anything related to the Middle East, South America, India, the Gulf of Mexico, tobacco, climate change, asbestos, banking bailouts, subprime mortgages, or anything else. Now let's all go bash the first fascist we find daring to question our benevolent corporate-government overlords.
      - orwin 5y ago
        I find you way too harsh. Yes, you are right, cartels have existed, and still exist. But do you think France, China, Russia would just agree to everything a supposed US health cartel say? And the researchers in public labs, do you think they would agree to this cartel? I mean, they are the one who sounded the alerts on: tobacco, neonicotinoids, sugar? Maybe everyone in the world is on it. I find it unlikely myself, but its OK to believe it. And you are not a fascist for refusing the vaccine :/
- pigeonhole123 5y ago
  Pfizer’s own study shows no effect on death
- flyingcircus3 5y ago
  This is the problem with purveyors of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. They don't need logical consistency. They don't need to explain themselves, they don't even need a central point to their arguments. They aren't trying to prove anything, only to plant the seeds of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Are you calling me a purveyor of FUD because I suggested that governments and corporations are not to be implicitly trusted?
    - flyingcircus3 5y ago
      No, I'm calling you one because you've played six degrees of vaccine misinformation on an article about the US government using herbicide. You haven't made any defensible claims, you've just injected uncertainty for uncertainty's sake.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        No I haven't, you must have misread.
      - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
        He showed why a trust recession is a very real thing.. And you'd be ignorant to not take it in mind.
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  Maybe it is working, but being coerced to take a novel gene therapy from organizations with a long history of abuse is a horrific precedent that should offend everyone.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    I assume you are referring to mRNA vaccines here. These are not in any way "gene therapy." Please quit spouting misinformation. For reference: > Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect[1] or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy mRNA vaccines do not modify cells, repair, or reconstruct anything.
    - kook_throwaway 5y ago
      Moderna and the FDA think it's a gene therapy. "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA." [1] >Please quit spouting misinformation. I like how you start with the word "please" so you can pretend you're being polite. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220000017/mrna-20200630.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220...
      - hirako2000 5y ago
        You are brilliant. The disinformation has been so effective it created zealots constantly defending the side of pharmaceuticals, government measures, systemic control of movement and ultimately even how to treat our own health. Always using reverse accusations, especially when proven wrong or suddenly disappear, refuse to continue the argumentation, or minimise the gravity of their falsehood.
        kook_throwaway 5y ago
        The gravity of the falsehood is key to understanding. We have seen an incredible growth of authoritarianism, from the near daily 'Simon says' mandate changes, lockdowns, increased surveillance, destruction of small business, 12 trillion dollars printed, and coerced administration of a novel gene therapy. You have no choice but to be right with all of that on your shoulders, that's a lot to weigh down a conscience if one is wrong.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

Don’t forget that the CIA had to pinky swear not to use vaccine campaigns as cover for spy operations (anymore). https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/05/20/314231260/cia-says-it-will-no-longer-use-vaccine-programs-as-cover https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/05/20/314231260... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27489045 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27489045

actually_a_dog 5y ago
Yep, and, thanks to that little fiasco, we lost significant ground in trying to eradicate polio worldwide.