7 ms·
'Li said back then, he was already worried that future technology would allow US filmmakers to digitally reproduce his moving body and superimpose the face of a
by devfromanatolia 5y ago
'Li said back then, he was already worried that future technology would allow US filmmakers to digitally reproduce his moving body and superimpose the face of any actor onto it.
“I was thinking: I’ve been training my entire life. And we martial artists could only grow older. Yet they could own [my moves] as an intellectual property forever. So I said I couldn’t do that,” Li said.'
It is fascinating to see that at some point of any expertise, you start to respect the art itself more than any hard work you invest in it.
- agumonkey 5y agoAnd we're hitting a point where tech is making this irrelevant. I'm somehow scared about the implications.. it kills a lot of deep human emotions (desire, ambition, skill, transmission). Some people are already feeling this in music slightly.
- fighterpilot 5y agoThat's the reason the Go champion Lee Sedol gave for quitting
- agumonkey 5y agoskynet won't even need a war, it will defeat our mindpower beforehand.
- plebianRube 5y agoNot with a bang, but with a whimper, huh? Rage against the dying of the light, my friend.
- drclau 5y agoUnless... we were already defeated and live in a simulation. There was a movie about it not so long ago... :)
- laurent92 5y agoMy employees weren’t born when Matrix was in theaters…
- goodpoint 5y agoskynet never needed a war. Why wouldn't a superhuman AI be capable of outsmarting and manipulating humans?
- ramblerman 5y agoMaking what irrelevant? The 'implications' for 'human emotions' is vague enough to be analogous to simply 'fear of change'. Focusing on the process and not the outcome has been common advice since the Tao Te Ching. It's not easy, but that's not due to tech.
- agumonkey 5y ago> Making what irrelevant? why try to make your body into a super-efficient machine if robots are out of your league, can one exist if he's doomed to be beaten ? maybe it will cause a healthy shift in focus and appreciation about what we try to do (people may still try to reach their full potential even if it will stop being best absolute performance, but only best 'human' performance').
- joshuaissac 5y agoComputers beat humans at chess, but players are still trying to become good at chess. Cars can travel faster than humans and horses, yet we still have running competitions and horse races.
- HWR_14 5y ago> Cars can travel faster than humans and horses, yet we still have running competitions and horse races. I don't know why we still have (or broadcast) running competitions.
- httpsterio 5y agohow do toi build a robot that executes Kung fu if you have no data points about how the body should move and behave? You'd still need to record an actual human performing them if you want to build a robot that could emulate that.
- agumonkey 5y agoThat's not a great joy and is what jet mi complained about, you're used to be beaten and replaced. It's a poor prognosis.
- gchamonlive 5y agoIt might be true for anyone measuring success by how much money they make. But I don't think people get into any form of art, and I count programming as a form of art, expecting huge sums of money. We all do it for the sake of doing it, because it feels good to do it, to learn, to overcome, to achieve. Just think about the fact we are never indeed satisfied. I, for instance, am much more skilled as a programmer than I was 5 years ago. In a sense I made it, I have a job that pays well and I can do my work without much issue. Programming feels natural. However I am nowhere near being satisfied. I want to learn more, see and try new things. Explore different paradigms, languages and techniques. But not because it could render me a better paycheck, but because it feels amazing to learn and solve new problems.
- hallway_monitor 5y agoThis seems to be true for any endeavor worth putting time into. I like that programming has a big built-in filter; if you don't get enjoyment from solving hard problems, the frustration and technical difficulty of it will force you out pretty quickly. So most of the people that have been doing it for a few years really love it and are always looking to improve their craft.
- sombremesa 5y agoSome people do get into programming for the money, but you can spot them a mile away.
- Kranar 5y agoI respect that you didn't get into programming for money, but many of us do, including myself. Programming for me was a way to escape growing up in poverty, it was a way to gain financial independence and start a business of my own in an area that has almost no barriers to entry. I started an HFT firm and in order to compete I have to hire some of the most technically sophisticated people I can find. I am fairly confident that many of them are highly motivated by money just as I am and that being able to put to use their skill to provide for themselves an incredibly high standard of living motivates them a lot more than if their skill had little to no means of providing them with a great paycheck. Certainly there are interesting aspects to programming, but there are interesting aspects to a variety of different subjects and I don't know that programming is intrinsically more fascinating than music, or psychology, or history. What makes programming stand out at this particular moment is the massive amount of economic potential it has.
- sigg3 5y ago> it kills a lot of deep human emotions (desire, ambition, skill, transmission). Of course it doesn't. It just changes parts of what we care about. Auto tune didn't kill music, it just made evident what we already knew: a live performance might be the more authentic experience of a particular artist. Other, new breed artists, might never even perform live. AI playing chess did not make chess players obsolete. It just shone a new light on the game from a different angle. I can see AI becoming talking heads type of hosts, but they will still need human insights and skills (or "guidance") to function appropriately. This is what we'll use to assess the performance, then.
- ur-whale 5y agoJust be patient, another decade and the tech will be at a point where his moves can be reverse-engineered back to 3D directly from his films.
- iurysza 5y agoWe're already there.
- luma 5y agoPose Estimation from a 2D source is one of the default examples provided by TensorFlow: https://www.tensorflow.org/lite/examples/pose_estimation/overview https://www.tensorflow.org/lite/examples/pose_estimation/ove... Not only are we already there, it's now a trivial exercise used to instruct new users on the technology.
- mlyle 5y agoThe 6th grade robotic team I coach built from that example this year. Note that this just comes up with coordinates in the 2D image for body parts. And that there's a lot of error and noise, so it's a long way from those list of points to a 3D kinematics model. But a tracking filter and linear algebra would get you a fair bit of the way there.
- ur-whale 5y ago> Not only are we already there We're not. There are basic experiment that demonstrate it's feasible, but there isn't such a system in production today. That being said, you are probably correct in that it's likely around the corner and my estimate was overly generous.
- hippari 5y agoThis is the technological dystopian that the Matrix was depicting. What an irony.
- donio 5y agoThe movie depicted an entirely different technological dystopia. Intellectual property was the least of their worries.
- dane-pgp 5y ago"Intellectual property" means corporations owning the products of human minds, often to the detriment of the humans themselves. That's actually a perfect analogy for the plot of The Matrix.
- mercacona 5y agoNeo learns martial arts in seconds from digitalized records. Not discussing intellectual property, but introducing a scenario that justifies Li’s worries. I bet that they told him: you’re a computer freak on the movie, but once you left the Matrix you became a martial artist by… and then Li though: WOW! An all my training??
- donio 5y agoFor all we know he is learning public domain material that is freely available to anyone. In the first movie we see very little of how real world society works but in the sequels other than the threat of the Machines things don't look particularly dystopian. In reality we'd probably end up with something much more oppressive under those circumstances.
- mercacona 5y agoJet Li isn’t in the movie, I’m not discussing Matrix Universe. Just guessing how Li’s reaction might sprout from the movie plot. But, even though, can’t see how we can relate Neo’s learning to public domain material. Recordings of public activities it’s not necessarily public domain stuff.
- regularfry 5y agoI'm not sure I'd count that as "respecting the art" more than "ensuring I have continued employment".
- enraged_camel 5y agoWhy would Jet Li worry about something like “continued employment”, when he is already worth $250 million?
- runawaybottle 5y agoBecause he might be one of those people where life didn’t hand him shit. In other words, he fought against competition at every step of the game, so he seriously considers the nature of competition and the implications. It’s like a rich person that grew up poor, they are constantly saving money. Of course they don’t really have to at this point, but that was their experience. All Jet Li might know is competition (just off the top of my head, he is under the shadow of Bruce Lee, similar to Jackie Chan, and the whole Hong Kong scene is second to America). He respects his experience.
- frutiger 5y ago> It’s like a rich person that grew up poor, they are constantly saving money. Of course they don’t really have to at this point, but that was their experience. Is the implication that people don't learn new things from new situations/environments and are forever stuck modeling the world the way they did when they were young teenagers/adults?
- amanaplanacanal 5y agoPeople certainly learn new things, but habits are a real thing. It's a natural tendency to keep doing what you are already doing, sometimes even if there are terrible consequences. See cigarette addicts for an example.
- 5y ago
- Pokepokalypse 5y agoAs it turns out; he lacked imagination. They can digitally create new moves that are even physically impossible; for say - superhero movies, and utterly surpass anything from traditional martial arts, even in the mythology.
- hazmazlaz 5y agoAnd yet, now Jet Li is essentially irrelevant but if his moves had been digitized and licensed for use in media he could have lived on forever.