6 ms·

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a ca

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

slver 5y ago
Security fixes and support.
- EvilEy3 5y ago
  Most users don't care about that.
  - robocat 5y ago
    Users care: so much so that they pay money for antivirus. They just don't understand the consequences of some of their actions or inactions, because they are not security professionals.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  You still get 4 years with 10. The Intel 8th gneration was introduced in 2017. So people who bought a computer in 2016 can still push it to ~9 years of service life, which is pretty good for an average Windows computer if they manage to do it. I imagine your average Windows consumer will have replaced a computer once already in that span once all the installed crap has stalled the computer to inoperable speeds. This honestly doesn't really strike me as a major issue. Especially since smartphones have like less than three years of security fixes on average.
  - andyjansson 5y ago
    >This honestly doesn't really strike me as a major issue. You're saying this from a position of privilege. There are a lot of people that don't enjoy the same financial security that you and I do that will be affected immensely by this. I know a few and this is not news in their favor.
    - Zevis 5y ago
      Working in PC repair, a majority of my customers can't just up and buy a new PC just because Microsoft arbitrarily decides that whatever they have isn't good enough, even though it has sufficient performance.
      - BuckRogers 5y ago
        And they don't have to. They can keep using the PC they have until 2025. After that, there's always Linux Mint.
  - strenholme 5y ago
    New Thinkpads in 2017 (T470/X270/etc.) were still using 7th generation Intel chips, so it is for some users a forced update after eight years. That said, people have hacked the leaked OEM version of Windows 11 to install on to 2010 or 2011 vintage computers, so there’s a reasonable chance Microsoft will not make 2018 era computers a hard cutoff for Windows 11 installs. Even if they do, there will probably be workarounds around allowing it to be installed it on Kaby Lake and older CPUs; we know right now Windows 11 will install on an older computer without significant issue (with some hacking, depending on just how old the computer is). For the record, I find the three year lifecycle for Android phones very annoying. I may have my next phone be an iPhone (they can have 5-6 year support lifetimes, if I get a brand new model when it comes out) or hope the Fairphone becomes available in the US.
benbristow 5y ago
I don't think Microsoft would want to make that same mistake again. I would expect Microsoft start pushing Windows 11 automatically through Windows Update for anyone on Windows 10, or at least start pushing heavily through popups/notifications to start the update like they did with Windows 10.
- wmf 5y ago
  We're talking about computers that (officially) cannot run Windows 11. Obviously they won't be auto-upgraded.
  - benbristow 5y ago
    I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. Or they could perhaps find a way to build a piece of software that will enable it automatically...
    - Teever 5y ago
      So what is the point of a restriction that they will later loosen?
    - vetinari 5y ago
      > I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. They've added restrictions since: 8th gen Intel Core or 2nd gen AMD Zen required.
      - floatboth 5y ago
        That's just some list in the documentation, mostly intended for OEMs building new computers with pre-installed Windows. NO WAY there will be literal cpuid checks excluding earlier processors.
        vetinari 5y ago
sp332 5y ago
Win10 is fine for most people, and each benefit of Win11 can seem a little "niche", but lots of people will fit into at least one of those little niches. Gamers in particular, who have gotten perfectly acceptable performance out of e.g. Ryzen 1x00 CPUs, will need to upgrade to get the most out of their fast SSDs or other features like Auto HDR.
cpeterso 5y ago
For an example of just how many people don't care about EOL'd operating systems: Microsoft's mainstream support for Windows 7 ended in January 2015 (and paid "Extended Security Updates" service ended in January 2020) and yet 21% of Firefox users are still running Windows 7: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware#goto-os-and-architecture https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware#goto-os-and-arch...
- quantumsequoia 5y ago
  I think Firefox users are much more likely to be contrarian with their software decisions. I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to extrapolate from from data on Firefox users to the general population
  - madeofpalk 5y ago
    You think Firefox users are going to be more likely to use an EOL-ed OS?
    - bruce343434 5y ago
      Perhaps, because win7 is known for being "the last good windows" with some privacy. It may or may not be true, but a lot of people are adamant about not using linux while also trying to maintain privacy, hence they use win7. I imagine such users would probably use a browser like firefox.
      - recursive 5y ago
        I remember when win2k was "the last good windows" and then windows xp after it. I $CURRENT-2 is always going to be considered "the last good windows".
        shkkmo 5y ago
        Windows 8 will never be considered "the last good windows"...
iamcreasy 5y ago
I left my laptop, that ran Windows 7, running for a couple of hours, and came back to see a notification that says welcome to Windows 10.
- joshschreuder 5y ago
  Not sure how that’s relevant to someone who can’t upgrade because of unsupported hardware. You can’t get autoupgraded to an OS your hardware doesn’t support. And most such people would happily continue using Windows 10 without caring (or knowing, most likely)
  - katbyte 5y ago
    The fact you can get auto upgraded from 7 to 10 at all is concerning
- Narishma 5y ago
  Consider yourself lucky it only took 2 hours to install.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
I prefer Windows 7. I like it's UI better. MS' ideal world would apparently not include any OS besides Windows 10 and 11, which is a great shame because i think there's so many great UI features in older Windows.
- chasil 5y ago
  The most dislikable thing about Windows 7 is the limitation of clear text SMB2. It's a good trade for local accounts and a superior ui to what followed.
swiley 5y ago
A lot of people are probably happy to not have their computer taken away for an hour every other week.

slver 5y ago

Security fixes and support.

EvilEy3 5y ago
Most users don't care about that.
- robocat 5y ago
  Users care: so much so that they pay money for antivirus. They just don't understand the consequences of some of their actions or inactions, because they are not security professionals.
Hamuko 5y ago
You still get 4 years with 10. The Intel 8th gneration was introduced in 2017. So people who bought a computer in 2016 can still push it to ~9 years of service life, which is pretty good for an average Windows computer if they manage to do it. I imagine your average Windows consumer will have replaced a computer once already in that span once all the installed crap has stalled the computer to inoperable speeds. This honestly doesn't really strike me as a major issue. Especially since smartphones have like less than three years of security fixes on average.
- andyjansson 5y ago
  >This honestly doesn't really strike me as a major issue. You're saying this from a position of privilege. There are a lot of people that don't enjoy the same financial security that you and I do that will be affected immensely by this. I know a few and this is not news in their favor.
  - Zevis 5y ago
    Working in PC repair, a majority of my customers can't just up and buy a new PC just because Microsoft arbitrarily decides that whatever they have isn't good enough, even though it has sufficient performance.
    - BuckRogers 5y ago
      And they don't have to. They can keep using the PC they have until 2025. After that, there's always Linux Mint.
- strenholme 5y ago
  New Thinkpads in 2017 (T470/X270/etc.) were still using 7th generation Intel chips, so it is for some users a forced update after eight years. That said, people have hacked the leaked OEM version of Windows 11 to install on to 2010 or 2011 vintage computers, so there’s a reasonable chance Microsoft will not make 2018 era computers a hard cutoff for Windows 11 installs. Even if they do, there will probably be workarounds around allowing it to be installed it on Kaby Lake and older CPUs; we know right now Windows 11 will install on an older computer without significant issue (with some hacking, depending on just how old the computer is). For the record, I find the three year lifecycle for Android phones very annoying. I may have my next phone be an iPhone (they can have 5-6 year support lifetimes, if I get a brand new model when it comes out) or hope the Fairphone becomes available in the US.

benbristow 5y ago

I don't think Microsoft would want to make that same mistake again. I would expect Microsoft start pushing Windows 11 automatically through Windows Update for anyone on Windows 10, or at least start pushing heavily through popups/notifications to start the update like they did with Windows 10.

wmf 5y ago
We're talking about computers that (officially) cannot run Windows 11. Obviously they won't be auto-upgraded.
- benbristow 5y ago
  I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. Or they could perhaps find a way to build a piece of software that will enable it automatically...
  - Teever 5y ago
    So what is the point of a restriction that they will later loosen?
  - vetinari 5y ago
    > I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. They've added restrictions since: 8th gen Intel Core or 2nd gen AMD Zen required.
    - floatboth 5y ago
      That's just some list in the documentation, mostly intended for OEMs building new computers with pre-installed Windows. NO WAY there will be literal cpuid checks excluding earlier processors.
      - vetinari 5y ago

sp332 5y ago

Win10 is fine for most people, and each benefit of Win11 can seem a little "niche", but lots of people will fit into at least one of those little niches. Gamers in particular, who have gotten perfectly acceptable performance out of e.g. Ryzen 1x00 CPUs, will need to upgrade to get the most out of their fast SSDs or other features like Auto HDR.

cpeterso 5y ago

For an example of just how many people don't care about EOL'd operating systems: Microsoft's mainstream support for Windows 7 ended in January 2015 (and paid "Extended Security Updates" service ended in January 2020) and yet 21% of Firefox users are still running Windows 7: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware#goto-os-and-architecture https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware#goto-os-and-arch...

quantumsequoia 5y ago
I think Firefox users are much more likely to be contrarian with their software decisions. I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to extrapolate from from data on Firefox users to the general population
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  You think Firefox users are going to be more likely to use an EOL-ed OS?
  - bruce343434 5y ago
    Perhaps, because win7 is known for being "the last good windows" with some privacy. It may or may not be true, but a lot of people are adamant about not using linux while also trying to maintain privacy, hence they use win7. I imagine such users would probably use a browser like firefox.
    - recursive 5y ago
      I remember when win2k was "the last good windows" and then windows xp after it. I $CURRENT-2 is always going to be considered "the last good windows".
      - shkkmo 5y ago
        Windows 8 will never be considered "the last good windows"...

iamcreasy 5y ago

I left my laptop, that ran Windows 7, running for a couple of hours, and came back to see a notification that says welcome to Windows 10.

joshschreuder 5y ago
Not sure how that’s relevant to someone who can’t upgrade because of unsupported hardware. You can’t get autoupgraded to an OS your hardware doesn’t support. And most such people would happily continue using Windows 10 without caring (or knowing, most likely)
- katbyte 5y ago
  The fact you can get auto upgraded from 7 to 10 at all is concerning
Narishma 5y ago
Consider yourself lucky it only took 2 hours to install.

FridayoLeary 5y ago

I prefer Windows 7. I like it's UI better. MS' ideal world would apparently not include any OS besides Windows 10 and 11, which is a great shame because i think there's so many great UI features in older Windows.

chasil 5y ago
The most dislikable thing about Windows 7 is the limitation of clear text SMB2. It's a good trade for local accounts and a superior ui to what followed.

swiley 5y ago

A lot of people are probably happy to not have their computer taken away for an hour every other week.