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With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https:/

• endisneigh 5y ago
  Your take is interesting: 1. Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades? 2. Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe? 3. China is not a dictatorship.
  • paulryanrogers 5y ago
    > 3. China is not a dictatorship Technically no, but without term limits and little accountability isn't the paramount leader a dictator in practice?
    • endisneigh 5y ago
      You should read Populist Authoritarianism by Tang. They explain this better than I ever could. The tldr however is there is a difference. China is not a dictatorship. I’m not sure why such blatant misinformation is being spread.
      • jrockway 5y ago
        What's the practical difference? You get disappeared if you say anything bad about the government. There are no term limits for the head of state. While "dictatorship" is the wrong word, I think people are right to evoke the comparison.
        • endisneigh 5y ago
          Are you saying an authoritarian government and a dictatorship are the same type of government? I mean they’re literally different things. You wouldn’t call China a monarchy even though a monarch can do similar things to a dictator, right? If the goal is to say China is bad let’s just say that - let’s not misrepresent their form of government. I don’t understand the relevance of the lack of term limits. Does not having term limits make a dictatorship?
          • tirrex 5y ago
            Nobody cares what you call it whether dictatorship, authoritarian or most democratic country ever. Parent says “you get dissappeared if you say anything about government”. When that is true, we call it dictatorship. Terminology does not matter. We are talking about practical results of it.
            • endisneigh 5y ago
              So any country that can disappear critics is a dictatorship?
              • 5y ago
  • jonathannat 5y ago
    > Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades? Fake GDP #s, especially since 2010. CCP does NOT have a growth goal in the recent five year plan, meaning they can't fake increasing defaults and can't increase construction spendings anymore due to ballooning debt. > Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe? First time in 30 years EU has sanctioned China. The CAI deal (Europe-China trade deal) is now being put on hold since various members of EU being sanctioned. Potentially a dead trade deal going forward. > China is not a dictatorship. It is. Please read up on Xi Jing Ping's personality, his success on removing most of his enemies and secure his power, and changing the law for unlimited terms
    • endisneigh 5y ago
      If you think China’s growth is fake then I don’t know what to tell you. I invite you to talk to people who lived in China in the early 2000s and live there now. > It is. Please read up on Xi Jing Ping's personality, his success on removing most of his enemies and secure his power, and changing the law for unlimited terms How much do you know about Chinese politics? Xi Jing Pings power isn’t as absolute as the American media would like you to believe. In fact he’s in a very vulnerable position.
      • jonathannat 5y ago
        https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3015206/chinas-economic-census-undercovers-more-fake-data-officials https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3015206/c... China’s economic census uncovers more fake data as officials promise ‘zero tolerance’ to data manipulation https://www.heritage.org/international-economies/commentary/the-problem-false-chinese-economic-data https://www.heritage.org/international-economies/commentary/... The Problem of False Chinese Economic Data https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about-size-their-economy-135107 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about... Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy
        • endisneigh 5y ago
          I very intentionally did not specify a number - I said very generally that the Chinese economy has been growing steadily. This is pretty much indisputable. Your links do not dispute that China has grown in this century, more the extent to which the growth has occurred. China is likely exaggerating their growth but regardless it has been growing.
  • Wolfenstein98k 5y ago
    1) Yes, but that's slowing by all external measures 2) Yes, but as with the agreements with my state (Victoria), those are fleeting and mostly gesture - the tide is turning against China since these wheels were set in motion several years ago 3) President for life? How isn't it a dictatorship? How is the leader replaced if the populace does not like him - and how do they make that known, when you can't even use an open communication platform like Clubhouse in China?
    • Ericson2314 5y ago
      The population can't but other high level party officials could perhaps. The CPP also has had much internal drama over centralization, the Xi pro-centralization faction could also loose out more broadly if there was a power struggle. IMO dictatorship / monarchy is a funny thing because after a certain scale the person at the top simply cannot be an absolutely power in the same way because there's too much going on. I think there more reasonable things to look at are: - How many extra luxuries does then nominal ruler get, and do they "distract" from their power/responsibilities. (Perhaps there is even a strict luxery power trade off? not sure.) - How is centralized is the bureaucracy, e.g. how many people outside the capital have power greater than those in the capital.
    • labster 5y ago
      Being President for life is not automatically a dictatorship. The Republic of Venice elected its Doge for life, as does the modern day state of Vatican City. Certainly it would be easier for the Pope to steer the barque of St. Peter if it were. And yet if you pay attention to the church there’s plenty of infighting and politics, enough that the Pope has to take years to gather enough political capital to act. Both of these countries are functionally oligarchies, I’d say. That said the way in which Pooh Bear uses the anticorruption law to silence and jail political rivals is definitely evidence of dictatorship.
    • 8note 5y ago
      Dictators have broad powers -- the tenure is orthogonal. You could have a dictator who's in for a year
  • DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    > Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades? Not steadily - but geometrically (if not near-exponentially). Rapid expansion is not sustainable. I compare China's growth from the 1970s through to the early-2000s to the US's postwar boom years: eventually things settle-down. I suspect the people at the top (whether in the CCP, private business interests, whereever) are uncomfortably having to acclimatize to this slower world of theirs they now find themselves in. > Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe? News to me. Link? > China is not a dictatorship You're technically correct - but consider that China is simply too big to be run as a dictatorship, and the CCP do not act in the interests of their citizens' human rights and individual freedoms. I don't understand what China's leadership is afraid of such that they have their internet filter and suppress independent journalism. And I don't believe you can have economic freedom without also having individual freedom.
    • endisneigh 5y ago
      China setup a new trade deal in the beginning of the new year however it’s been pretty contentious due to the alleged human rights violations (I say alleged as China denies them). Prior to this China did trade with specific countries. > You're technically correct - but consider that China is simply too big to be run as a dictatorship, and the CCP do not act in the interests of their citizens' human rights and individual freedoms. I don't understand what China's leadership is afraid of such that they have their internet filter and suppress independent journalism. You can't have economic freedom without individual freedom. I’m not really here to defend or attack China - it just annoys me that such blatant misinformation is being spread.
    • seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > You're technically correct - but consider that China is simply too big to be run as a dictatorship, and the CCP do not act in the interests of their citizens' human rights and individual freedoms. Ya, it’s more like a family dictatorship where economic and political power is concentrated in the hand of a few “red” families. That they made that obvious with Xi is interesting.
• Leary 5y ago
  Declining economy? It's going to decline itself to 1st place by 2030.
  • not_exactly__ 5y ago
    Not so fast. China managing 1st place isn’t a foregone conclusion. Ill blame those pesky demographic trends first.
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    • justinzollars 5y ago
      Its already number one by many measures: - world trade - PPP - Navy size
  • jonathannat 5y ago
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about-size-their-economy-135107 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about... Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy https://fortune.com/2021/03/11/stimulus-package-covid-relief-us-economy-gdp-china-growth/ https://fortune.com/2021/03/11/stimulus-package-covid-relief... The $1.9 trillion stimulus package could see the U.S. economy outpace China’s for the first time in 45 years https://seekingalpha.com/article/4414648-chinas-shifting-demographics-suggest-slower-economic-growth https://seekingalpha.com/article/4414648-chinas-shifting-dem... China's Shifting Demographics Suggest Slower Economic growth https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/05/china-economic-growth-peoples-congress/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/05/china-economic-growth-p... China Signals Economic Caution at People’s Congress
    • justinzollars 5y ago
      https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/research-insights/economy/the-world-in-2050.html https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/research-insights/economy/the-worl... China GDP will be much larger than US by 2050 https://www.politico.eu/article/china-topples-us-as-eus-top-trade-partner-over-2020/ https://www.politico.eu/article/china-topples-us-as-eus-top-... China topples US as EU Top trade partner https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2019/08/20/Report-Chinas-military-could-overwhelm-US-forces-in-Indo-Pacific-region/8051566319200/ https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2019/08/20/Report-Chinas-mi... Report: China's military could overwhelm U.S. forces in Indo-Pacific region https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-10-01/From-nobody-to-somebody-China-s-high-speed-rail-in-numbers-Udm6mE3qqA/index.html https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-10-01/From-nobody-to-somebod... China has the worlds largest high speed rail network
• anaccountwow 5y ago
  This tweet by Xinhua (state media) gave the same impression. It's bizarre: https://twitter.com/xhnews/status/1375271937442603012 https://twitter.com/xhnews/status/1375271937442603012
  • mlindner 5y ago
    Good grief. I really wonder if they think African Americans are dumb.
• ackbar03 5y ago
  This reads like something I would have written in high school and haven't quite figured out how the world works yet
  • jonathannat 5y ago
    From your posting history, it seems you're ethnically mainland Chinese. I'm sorry to hurt the fragile feelings.
    • dang 5y ago
      Obviously you can't do this here. We've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Using HN primarily for nationalistic or ideological battle is already a bannable offense, and racial slurs are beyond beyond the pale.
  • marakv2 5y ago
    Attacking the commenter instead of the information posted isn't really how it's done around here.
  • dang 5y ago
    This breaks the site guidelines badly. Unfortunately you've done that more than once before. We ban accounts that do this, so please read the rules and stick to them when posting here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
• oreally 5y ago
  Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China. Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled. On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards in conflicts around the world. In this case many chinese think this whole debacle is a based off lies fabricated by dubious western sources (which has some basis behind it) and they're reacting accordingly. As was shown when China helped the US during the UN security meeting to not declare the iraq war illegal, big powers will abuse whatever they have and can get in their own interests. The problem is whether you western folks will be played by your institutions into doing things that destroy your own credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.
  • hayst4ck 5y ago
    > In this case many Chinese think this whole debacle is a based off lies fabricated by dubious western sources This is very true, our media lies to us, and it lies to you, but isn't there something to be said about not having the freedom to think what you want in your own country, nor being able to read what information you want? No matter who commits a condemn-able act it should be condemned, most of all if it's your own group. The most scary thing to me about China or a Chinese hegemony is not the shift of power, but that Chinese citizens are unable to be informed nor are they able to condemn their own government. There is no public veto for CPC behavior. China has assumed the role of the victim (century of humiliation), but acts as the abuser (destruction of Tibetan/Uigher/Hong Kong culture and a desire to destroy Taiwan), and then justifies the abuse it doles out by the abuses it has received. The second most scary thing to me about Chinese hegemony is that dialogue is primarily based around power. Who has the power to do what, not what is morally right, not the rules that should apply to all countries and people, but most of all itself. So what is China's moral basis and ethics system founded upon? Might makes right. That is terrifying to me. > The problem is whether you western folks will be played by your institutions into doing things that destroy your own credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world. Does China's own credibility not matter?
    • 5y ago
• 8note 5y ago
  What's wrong with signing an agreement with Iran? They've got cheap oil, that could be sent by pipelines rather than the US controlled Pacific ocean
• justinzollars 5y ago
  The United States is sailing the 7th fleet off of the Chinese coast and has China surrounded by military bases, some very close to the Chinese mainland. The Shanghai Communiqué - Joint Communique of the United States of America and the People's Republic of China, settled the Taiwan question in the 1970's: http://www.taiwandocuments.org/communique01.htm http://www.taiwandocuments.org/communique01.htm > The U.S. side declared: The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves If you put yourself in China's shoes, and consider China's history. How would you feel if a Chinese fleet was sailing off of the coast of California and stoking internal tensions?
  • hayst4ck 5y ago
    > If you put yourself in China's shoes, and consider China's history. How would you feel if a Chinese fleet was sailing off of the coast of California and stoking internal tensions? The question is phrased awkwardly and with a forgone conclusion. The world "internal" is key. Does a Taiwanese see that as an internal issue? Did a Hong Kong person see that as an internal issue? In an oppressor/opressee relationship I would probably feel much closer to the party being oppressed, and I would respect the "policing force" for protecting the more vulnerable party. So in your own scenario, say Trump won through an obviously fraudulent election, and Hawaii no longer wanted to be a part of America (rightfully so!), and the Chinese military was protecting Hawaii from being ruled without public consent, I would very much be happy about this Chinese fleet. If America was actively trying to extinguish a "pacific islander cancer" or a "native american cancer" via slow genocide and culturally destructive tacitcs, I would say that is an incredibly morally just cause for this theoretical Chinese fleet. How would you feel about the theoretical chinese fleet if you were hawaiian? Is America perfect (mexican border situation), no. But at least we can talk about our imperfections openly. We can have a discussion about this "evil" of "seperatism" if we wish. How would you feel if you were Taiwanese? How would you feel if you were a native Hong Konger? How would you feel if you were a Uigher? Do Chinese citizens not have any empathy? Have you ever been to Taiwan?
    • 5y ago