9 ms·

Similar to the author of the post, I'm surprised that I haven't seen or heard much about bio-hacking your own vaccine. Seems like an interesting trend to follow

Similar to the author of the post, I'm surprised that I haven't seen or heard much about bio-hacking your own vaccine. Seems like an interesting trend to follow, though I will be waiting for an FDA-approved vaccine myself. I am a little worried that https://radvac.org/vaccine/ https://radvac.org/vaccine/ mentions that their vaccine has "the most extreme complication in some recipients of stuffy noses." I would expect a functioning vaccine to elicit an immune response. I would be more comforted if, like the mRNA vaccine, a sizeable percentage of people trying the DIY vaccine developed a short fever. Though according to them this is expected: "Intranasal delivery of chitosan-based vaccines have shown mild side effects and high levels of efficacy of both mucosal and systemic immunity, when delivered in a prime-boost regimen (in both animal models and human trials). "

ampdepolymerase 6y ago
Because complying with GMP is tedious and expensive. One mistake and you could end up with blood poisoning or a brain-eating microbe. Lab grade material is not the same as pharmaceutical grade material. You can get a lot of expensive anti-cancer drugs too at bulk prices from lab suppliers. That does not mean they are rated for human consumption. What's good for the lab rat is not necessarily good for the homo sapien. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_manufacturing_practice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_manufacturing_practice Granted, more biohacking and bio experimentation is a good thing. Innovation should not be gatekept by institutions and the establishment. Here's a startup idea for whoever's interested: Take lab grade pharmaceutical drugs and turn them into human-rate drugs at a low cost.
koeng 6y ago
Josiah Zayner did one that looked fairly promising (believe it was either an mRNA or DNA vaccine), but unfortunately he got banned from a lot of media (like youtube) for it, so that may partially explain why you haven't seen or heard much.
- tomjakubowski 6y ago
  Zayner's retrospective on the homemade vaccine experiment is interesting. He now thinks that testing vaccines is complicated enough to warrant large clinical trials. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-10/home-made-covid-vaccine-appeared-to-work-but-questions-remained https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-10/home-made...
  - koeng 6y ago
    Josiah is an interesting guy because it turns out his opinions hold quite a bit of nuance and he’s generally a good guy (not a snake oil salesman). I think he definitely had that perspective going in - the point of the experiment is partly inspirational to show it can be done.
caveperson2102 6y ago
Your comment made me think of something, I'll share it as a "PSA" in case it helps someone stay safe. Neanderthal DNA has been linked to severe outcomes from COVID.[0] To me that means I'll get vaccinated (and strain specific boosters that may have to happen), full stop. But if I have a choice of more than one type of vaccine available at the same time (unlikely? But still), then I will try to keep this in mind. Other than that it just means I will be extra careful. Disclaimer: not a scientist; and anything I say here is first-person (I'm in the demographic groups I'm referring to). My non-scientific speculation: there is a chance the stuffy nose could be a proxy for high neanderthal DNA. I say that because other sinus and nasal issues are among the things linked to genes inherited from Neanderthals. They had different anatomies in that regard. I've read it could have been an adaptation to cold. I've also read that the extinction of Neanderthals may have been related to viruses causing respiratory problems/diseases.[1] Anyways, the point is, that some of these genes could correlate with severe outcomes from coronavirus. If a reader knows their genetics, and/or knows people who have mentioned they have a relatively high amount of neanderthal DNA... You might want to think about it or mention it to them. Especially if they have other respiratory or sinus things going on. [0]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/neanderthal-gene-found-many-people-may-open-cells-coronavirus-and-increase-covid-19 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/neanderthal-gene-fou... [1]: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190919080755.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190919080755.h... ---- [btw I accidentally posted this comment to the wrong thread then moved it. Not trying to spam or rant, I'm just bad at commenting because I rarely comment. Anxiety and so on...]
- Cogito 6y ago
  Hey FYI looks like you got an auto ban, I've emailed the mods to get them to review in case it's a false positive. This was an interesting comment. I don't think it is particularly likely that Neanderthal DNA is associated with more stuffy noses, but who knows! An interesting hypothesis for sure.
visarga 6y ago
> bio hacking your own vaccine. Seems like an interesting trend to follow There's only one of you, no second chances if you mess up.
buildstatements 6y ago
> though I will be waiting for an FDA-approved vaccine myself. If it was July, and this post popped up, heck even November pre-US election when we were told the vaccine was months away, would that change the equation? I feel like there are two questions here: 1. is this safe? If so, how safe? 2. Is it worth trying? Question 1 is quantitative and verifiable, whereas question 2 is one of risk preference.

ampdepolymerase 6y ago

Because complying with GMP is tedious and expensive. One mistake and you could end up with blood poisoning or a brain-eating microbe. Lab grade material is not the same as pharmaceutical grade material. You can get a lot of expensive anti-cancer drugs too at bulk prices from lab suppliers. That does not mean they are rated for human consumption. What's good for the lab rat is not necessarily good for the homo sapien. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_manufacturing_practice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_manufacturing_practice Granted, more biohacking and bio experimentation is a good thing. Innovation should not be gatekept by institutions and the establishment. Here's a startup idea for whoever's interested: Take lab grade pharmaceutical drugs and turn them into human-rate drugs at a low cost.

koeng 6y ago

Josiah Zayner did one that looked fairly promising (believe it was either an mRNA or DNA vaccine), but unfortunately he got banned from a lot of media (like youtube) for it, so that may partially explain why you haven't seen or heard much.

tomjakubowski 6y ago
Zayner's retrospective on the homemade vaccine experiment is interesting. He now thinks that testing vaccines is complicated enough to warrant large clinical trials. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-10/home-made-covid-vaccine-appeared-to-work-but-questions-remained https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-10/home-made...
- koeng 6y ago
  Josiah is an interesting guy because it turns out his opinions hold quite a bit of nuance and he’s generally a good guy (not a snake oil salesman). I think he definitely had that perspective going in - the point of the experiment is partly inspirational to show it can be done.

caveperson2102 6y ago

Your comment made me think of something, I'll share it as a "PSA" in case it helps someone stay safe. Neanderthal DNA has been linked to severe outcomes from COVID.[0] To me that means I'll get vaccinated (and strain specific boosters that may have to happen), full stop. But if I have a choice of more than one type of vaccine available at the same time (unlikely? But still), then I will try to keep this in mind. Other than that it just means I will be extra careful. Disclaimer: not a scientist; and anything I say here is first-person (I'm in the demographic groups I'm referring to). My non-scientific speculation: there is a chance the stuffy nose could be a proxy for high neanderthal DNA. I say that because other sinus and nasal issues are among the things linked to genes inherited from Neanderthals. They had different anatomies in that regard. I've read it could have been an adaptation to cold. I've also read that the extinction of Neanderthals may have been related to viruses causing respiratory problems/diseases.[1] Anyways, the point is, that some of these genes could correlate with severe outcomes from coronavirus. If a reader knows their genetics, and/or knows people who have mentioned they have a relatively high amount of neanderthal DNA... You might want to think about it or mention it to them. Especially if they have other respiratory or sinus things going on. [0]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/neanderthal-gene-found-many-people-may-open-cells-coronavirus-and-increase-covid-19 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/neanderthal-gene-fou... [1]: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190919080755.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190919080755.h... ---- [btw I accidentally posted this comment to the wrong thread then moved it. Not trying to spam or rant, I'm just bad at commenting because I rarely comment. Anxiety and so on...]

Cogito 6y ago
Hey FYI looks like you got an auto ban, I've emailed the mods to get them to review in case it's a false positive. This was an interesting comment. I don't think it is particularly likely that Neanderthal DNA is associated with more stuffy noses, but who knows! An interesting hypothesis for sure.

visarga 6y ago

> bio hacking your own vaccine. Seems like an interesting trend to follow There's only one of you, no second chances if you mess up.

buildstatements 6y ago

> though I will be waiting for an FDA-approved vaccine myself. If it was July, and this post popped up, heck even November pre-US election when we were told the vaccine was months away, would that change the equation? I feel like there are two questions here: 1. is this safe? If so, how safe? 2. Is it worth trying? Question 1 is quantitative and verifiable, whereas question 2 is one of risk preference.