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Hi guys--Jonathan here at Bare. I've forced everyone's hand on this because... whelp... we've recently acquired the business and we ended up finding that we can
by usiegj00 6y ago
Hi guys--Jonathan here at Bare. I've forced everyone's hand on this because... whelp... we've recently acquired the business and we ended up finding that we can be critical to Stripe Webhooks processing for folks on the older Stripe API. We literally will take down your invoicing on Stripe when a customer cancels. Then we have the unsavory task of working with customers that have canceled, did not complete their deprovisioning and then flame us for causing them outages. I love a lively debate but if you're a customer and love us, reach out to me NOW and I'll hear your feedback. If you're not a customer, then please, please if you never want to talk to your vendor, please go to ProfitWell or ChartMogul. Patrick and Nick are great guys and are crushing it and will gladly take your business. We are getting eaten from the bottom by platforms AHEM Stripe that are inspired by us, folks that clone us and you can see from our revenue transparency that we're the last in line for making money. That is going to change--by helping customers that really want to make more... make more. If you'd like to give me direct feedback, give me a ring at 855 252 6050. (I'm also a CISSP™, CREST CRT™ and Brown Cybersecurity dude--so if you've any legislation that speaks to this, let me know--for you folks quoting CA--we have business customers and they are over 13.)
- rahimiali 6y agoPeople are complaining that they don’t want to call you. And here you are asking people to call you.
- usiegj00 6y agoHiya--we're not a consumer service, so yeah, I'm asking people to call me. I'll respond a bit to this thread because HN is read by lots of folks, but it's also filled with trolls. Businesses talk to businesses. Especially when we're going to screw something up with low bandwidth communication. I'm a real dude and happy to chat to real folks running real businesses. Consumers should not be using our platform.
- noncoml 6y ago> HN is read by lots of folks, but it's also filled with trolls Just wow..
- ZephyrBlu 6y agoPretty funny that he says that about one of the most mature and well-behaved communities on the internet. I guess everyone who disagrees with him is a troll.
- chris_wot 6y agoI may have had my differences with the HN mods, but this place is NOT filled with trolls. If anything, it is quite troll free.
- rahimiali 6y agoI’m not hung up on consumer vs business or legality. I’m trying to point out that you sticking to your guns in this situation sends the message that you don’t care about inconveniencing the people you’re doing business with. I understand these are soon-to-be-ex-customers who are about to have no value to you. But you have a chance here to leave them on good terms so they can recommend you to their friends. You are instead leaving a bad taste in their mouths.
- jevgeni 6y agoSince you are targeting global customers, just FYI in a lot of European jurisdictions a written “expression of will” is enough. So nobody is buying this obligation to call ruse.
- papandada 6y agoI've never seen a business talk to a business, actually.
- rchaud 6y agoLawyers talk to each other so businesses don't have to. Which is where this might end up if Baremetrics has customers in California.
- that_guy_iain 6y agoOnly a fool would go get a lawyer instead of making a phone call. Especially, if you have employees who you can tell to make the phone call too. I suspect if you did get a lawyer the first thing they'll suggest is they call the number to get it cancelled and will ask if you called the number.
- rchaud 6y agoI'm not talking about a customer getting a lawyer involved. I'm talking about a DA looking into whether Baremetrics is violating CA law by not having an online-only cancellation option to corresponding with its online-only registration system.
- lodovic 6y agoI think Brian will be burned out in a week once unhappy customers start to call him
- austhrow743 6y ago>Hiya--we're not a consumer service, so yeah, I'm asking people to call me. Hey man, just wanted to let you know that you've accidentally placed free trial and mailing list buttons on your home page. Seeing as you're not a consumer service and all you probably want to take those down. You've also accidentally integrated with the consumer service known as Stripe, who have the horribly consumerish feature of closing your account right in account settings. Might want to get on that before the Coalition of Serious Business finds out.
- BiznessBro 6y agoHey dude bro it's totally cool to deal over the phone mate, when you're a business. That's what businesses do. We can talk and shoot the shit and stuff bro. Email is for B2C, Phone is for B2B. Easy peasy bro.
- GoblinSlayer 6y agoUh, no, sending meat sounds over air is the worst form of communication ever, packed with ambient noise, other noise, aggressive compression, low volume, intermittent radio signal and heuristic commutation that works only every other time.
- AntiImperialis2 6y agoSo, you're discriminating against deaf people? Boy, you're going down big. You have no idea.
- sergiomattei 6y agoThis just smells of completely misunderstanding who you're targeting. Good luck, you're going to need it.
- that_guy_iain 6y agoI'm just going to put this out there, maybe he knows who he is targetting and it's not us.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago> we ended up finding that we can be critical to Stripe Webhooks processing for folks on the older Stripe API. We literally will take down your invoicing on Stripe when a customer cancels. What does this even mean? Are you saying that if you remove a customer’s Stripe integration, it prevents them from being paid by their own customers?
- khalilovcmd 6y agoI think he means if we are using their "Recover" product which I explained in my email that we absolutely don't use it. https://baremetrics.com/features/recover https://baremetrics.com/features/recover
- DCoder 6y agoI think what they mean is this: if you're dissatisfied with invoice PDFs generated and sent by Stripe, it's fairly common to disable the sending and use an integration [0] to generate/send them out instead. And then if you cancel that integration, oops, your customers no longer get their invoices. [0]: https://stripe.com/partners/apps-and-extensions/invoicing https://stripe.com/partners/apps-and-extensions/invoicing
- khalilovcmd 6y agoHmm, interesting. They must know that I (we) are not using this, because I didn't even know this feature exists and our customers are happy getting sent Stripe invoices.
- colechristensen 6y agoIn California it is illegal to not allow online cancellation for services signed up for online. No exceptions, it has nothing to do with children. If I were your customer I would make a point of taking every legal avenue to punish you for this behavior, and the reasoning here guarantees I wouldn’t think of touching your product.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- teraflop 6y agoIn addition to the California law that has already been mentioned, would you care to comment on the Visa Product and Service Rules (which Stripe's TOS incorporates by reference) which state that if you process recurring payments, you must: > Provide a simple cancellation procedure, and, if the Cardholder’s order was initially accepted online, at least an online cancellation procedure. https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/visa-rules-public.pdf https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/visa-rules...
- tgtweak 6y agoIf I can delete my entire GitHub account and screw everything and everyone connected to it with a single red warning prompt you can bet your ass it's possible to online cancel a service that may in some edge cases affect a customer.
- chris_wot 6y agoCurious what you would do for someone who is mute. Would you make them call you?
- trungdq88 6y agoLol, I want this question answered.
- reaperducer 6y agoMutes already know how to use a TTY relay service.
- chris_wot 6y agoWhy force them to use it when email might be better?
- justinclift 6y ago... or any other medical condition which affects voice or hearing. Deafness, Laryngitis, etc.
- skellystudios 6y agoOr far more common: someone who doesn't speak English
- cesher 6y agoIf you automated the on-boarding process to Baremetrics, you sure as hell can automate the un-boarding process. Regardless, I don’t get why anyone uses Baremetrics, your dashboard is slow as shit and looks like your customer service is equally shit.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- icelancer 6y agoCan only imagine how angry the original Baremetrics founder is watching you ruin his business' reputation in mere weeks.
- tgtweak 6y ago> days
- supermatt 6y agoFor the sake of your business you need a buffer between you and the world. > you can see from our revenue transparency that we're the last in line for making money Maybe there are some social reasons for that. You've definitely lost face here.
- cannabis_sam 6y agoWhy are you guys obsessed with phonecalls?
- scoutt 6y agoIf you offer a very convenient frictionless entry, you have to offer a frictionless exit. Otherwise it's way too difficult to interpret it as anything else but a cheap and very sad way to keep a customer. A really sad business practice.
- khalilovcmd 6y ago100% in agreement, that's how I felt too.
- dave1999x 6y agoNo one believes you. Everyone sees this for what it is; a barrier to exit
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]