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U.S. user data is mostly stored by TikTok on servers in Virginia, with backup storage in Singapore. Company officials say Chinese authorities have never attempt

U.S. user data is mostly stored by TikTok on servers in Virginia, with backup storage in Singapore. Company officials say Chinese authorities have never attempted to gain access to Americans' information.

gowld 6y ago
Not sure how much that counts. In the US, under certain warrants under the so-called "PATRIOT" Act, it's illegal to admit that government accessed user information. China likely has similar ways to compel silence upon threat of losing privileges.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  A related concept is the warrant canary, which is a positive statement that the government has not accessed user information. It is current untested in court whether the PATRIOT Act can compel speech, or merely silence it, and so the idea is that if you stop making the positive statement that no government intrusion has occurred, then it implies that there has been intrusion. (The constitutionality of Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act has, to my knowledge, never been tested in court, and I firmly believe that it violates the First Amendment's protection of free speech.) That said, they are generally ignored when they disappear. Apple and Reddit both removed their warrant canaries in 2016, to very little fanfare, despite the implications of them doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary
whybenull 6y ago
So you think we should believe these company officials?
- beezle 6y ago
  Until proven otherwise. And honestly, where is the 'national security' risk? There is probably far more data available in public databases that China could gather and analyze, not to mention you can apply the same paranoia to other services US and foreign.
tempsy 6y ago
The backup is stored on Alibaba servers in Singapore. I don’t know why it serves anyone well to 1) believe the company’s word at face value and 2) not believe that the Chinese gov does not have backdoor agreements with the largest Chinese tech company. The better question to ask is what information TikTok even has on someone. It isn’t exactly an app that asks for a lot of real world identity data to signup with. IMO their biggest thing would be their ability to use computer vision to instantly process videos and match faces with real world identity databases and then to link faces and backgrounds to locations, family members/connections, interests, etc.
- solstice 6y ago
  Couldn't they also tweak the algorithm at a crucial moment to steer public opinion to certain content?
  - ls65536 6y ago
    In my view, this is really the more important and unfortunately often underappreciated concern here. There's a lot of talk about what personal data might be captured by these apps/services (not to minimize that either), but it seems there's overall much less discussion about the potential for the control of information/ideas over large audiences, even in subtle but impactful ways. Not only is it plausible that such interference could happen, be it to exert political or economic influence, but it's likely that it could be done surreptitiously with little to no oversight by regulators, governments and ultimately the people using these services.
  - throwaway5752 6y ago
    That being true and meaningful are two distinct things. That is true of anything that selects information to present to a user. Netflix recommendations, Facebook feed/ads/group recommendations, LinkedIn feed, Twitter feed, Reddit rankings, or search engine results. It could not be algorithmic and it could be mandatory editorial programming in a companies that run large numbers of local news stations. What you said describes literally any technology that makes decisions about what to present to the user.
  - 6y ago
AzzieElbab 6y ago
It is not just about data. It is also about asymmetry of control. China bans all of western social media and gets to censor tiktok with it is rising share of users and a bunch of others. Go write something about Tibet Taiwan or Tiananmen Square
- thanksforthe42 6y ago
  I decided not to source my suppliers in China. Having a gigantic conglomerate in control of my supply chain is too risky. I think that's how we need to look at Chinese companies. Are you willing to deal with the biggest company in the world? Although most humans are not going to understand that the CCP owns 51% of every company. And if they do, even less are going to understand the implications. As a result you can have networks formed out of ignorance.
  - justicezyx 6y ago
    > Although most humans are not going to understand that the CCP owns 51% of every company. False Only state-owned corps have the 51% rule. Proof is Elon's plant in Shanghai.
- dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago
  Yes of course, we have to lower ourselves down to China's level otherwise we're weak. I guess also ignore China then pointing to the US and saying "our behaviour is fine, even the US does it."
  - AzzieElbab 6y ago
    It is not about morality or who says what. Can’t have billions of international users accepting Chinas censorship
    - gizmo385 6y ago
      So the alternative is to instead impose US censorship? How is that any better?
shawnz 6y ago
Whether they are already attempting to access that information is only one part of the question. Will they do it in future, given they could do it at any time and TikTok would have to comply?
- justicezyx 6y ago
  > TikTok would have to comply? How is that so? Tiktok is a us Corp. Legally they are subject to China laws. Politically they can be hurt by influence from the parent's domestic operations. I suppose latter is what you meant?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
theptip 6y ago
AT&T said that the NSA was not intercepting their traffic... it was illegal at the time and Congress retroactively made it legal to get the EFF’s court case to go away. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A I don’t think this argument is particularly strong.
addicted 6y ago
All of this is an equal argument against Facebook and Google as well, especially for any country outside the US. And before you say China is totalitarian and the US is a democracy, that is very true, but also irrelevant because the US is already known to use this data in illegal ways through the Snowden revelations.

gowld 6y ago

Not sure how much that counts. In the US, under certain warrants under the so-called "PATRIOT" Act, it's illegal to admit that government accessed user information. China likely has similar ways to compel silence upon threat of losing privileges.

MereInterest 6y ago
A related concept is the warrant canary, which is a positive statement that the government has not accessed user information. It is current untested in court whether the PATRIOT Act can compel speech, or merely silence it, and so the idea is that if you stop making the positive statement that no government intrusion has occurred, then it implies that there has been intrusion. (The constitutionality of Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act has, to my knowledge, never been tested in court, and I firmly believe that it violates the First Amendment's protection of free speech.) That said, they are generally ignored when they disappear. Apple and Reddit both removed their warrant canaries in 2016, to very little fanfare, despite the implications of them doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

whybenull 6y ago

So you think we should believe these company officials?

beezle 6y ago
Until proven otherwise. And honestly, where is the 'national security' risk? There is probably far more data available in public databases that China could gather and analyze, not to mention you can apply the same paranoia to other services US and foreign.

tempsy 6y ago

The backup is stored on Alibaba servers in Singapore. I don’t know why it serves anyone well to 1) believe the company’s word at face value and 2) not believe that the Chinese gov does not have backdoor agreements with the largest Chinese tech company. The better question to ask is what information TikTok even has on someone. It isn’t exactly an app that asks for a lot of real world identity data to signup with. IMO their biggest thing would be their ability to use computer vision to instantly process videos and match faces with real world identity databases and then to link faces and backgrounds to locations, family members/connections, interests, etc.

solstice 6y ago
Couldn't they also tweak the algorithm at a crucial moment to steer public opinion to certain content?
- ls65536 6y ago
  In my view, this is really the more important and unfortunately often underappreciated concern here. There's a lot of talk about what personal data might be captured by these apps/services (not to minimize that either), but it seems there's overall much less discussion about the potential for the control of information/ideas over large audiences, even in subtle but impactful ways. Not only is it plausible that such interference could happen, be it to exert political or economic influence, but it's likely that it could be done surreptitiously with little to no oversight by regulators, governments and ultimately the people using these services.
- throwaway5752 6y ago
  That being true and meaningful are two distinct things. That is true of anything that selects information to present to a user. Netflix recommendations, Facebook feed/ads/group recommendations, LinkedIn feed, Twitter feed, Reddit rankings, or search engine results. It could not be algorithmic and it could be mandatory editorial programming in a companies that run large numbers of local news stations. What you said describes literally any technology that makes decisions about what to present to the user.
- 6y ago

AzzieElbab 6y ago

It is not just about data. It is also about asymmetry of control. China bans all of western social media and gets to censor tiktok with it is rising share of users and a bunch of others. Go write something about Tibet Taiwan or Tiananmen Square

thanksforthe42 6y ago
I decided not to source my suppliers in China. Having a gigantic conglomerate in control of my supply chain is too risky. I think that's how we need to look at Chinese companies. Are you willing to deal with the biggest company in the world? Although most humans are not going to understand that the CCP owns 51% of every company. And if they do, even less are going to understand the implications. As a result you can have networks formed out of ignorance.
- justicezyx 6y ago
  > Although most humans are not going to understand that the CCP owns 51% of every company. False Only state-owned corps have the 51% rule. Proof is Elon's plant in Shanghai.
dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago
Yes of course, we have to lower ourselves down to China's level otherwise we're weak. I guess also ignore China then pointing to the US and saying "our behaviour is fine, even the US does it."
- AzzieElbab 6y ago
  It is not about morality or who says what. Can’t have billions of international users accepting Chinas censorship
  - gizmo385 6y ago
    So the alternative is to instead impose US censorship? How is that any better?

shawnz 6y ago

Whether they are already attempting to access that information is only one part of the question. Will they do it in future, given they could do it at any time and TikTok would have to comply?

justicezyx 6y ago
> TikTok would have to comply? How is that so? Tiktok is a us Corp. Legally they are subject to China laws. Politically they can be hurt by influence from the parent's domestic operations. I suppose latter is what you meant?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

theptip 6y ago

AT&T said that the NSA was not intercepting their traffic... it was illegal at the time and Congress retroactively made it legal to get the EFF’s court case to go away. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A I don’t think this argument is particularly strong.

addicted 6y ago

All of this is an equal argument against Facebook and Google as well, especially for any country outside the US. And before you say China is totalitarian and the US is a democracy, that is very true, but also irrelevant because the US is already known to use this data in illegal ways through the Snowden revelations.