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I Feel Like I Have No Real Interests; My Only Interest Is Making Money

150 points by _davebennett 6y ago

Pete-Codes 6y ago
Interesting read! I find that myself more and more. I have some hobbies still like reading (non biz) and fitness but work dominates a lot of my time.
f_allwein 6y ago
If you feel like that yourself, maybe check out "Find your Why" [1] by Simon Sinek of TED fame [2]. I find it useful. [1] https://simonsinek.com/find-your-why/ https://simonsinek.com/find-your-why/ [2] https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_insp...
- louwrentius 6y ago
  I think Simon Sinek is mostly selling himself. I'm not aware of any scientific research supporting his views.
  - minikites 6y ago
    Is science always necessary during the search for meaning?
    - ketanhwr 6y ago
      That sounds like something an anti-vaxxer would say; haha just kidding
    - SummerlyMars 6y ago
      If people use a specific strategy to 'find their meaning', and they're aware whether or not they've found it, then we can get some idea of the efficacy of the strategy over say, doing nothing specific. Is it necessary? No, but there are lots of strategies to choose from, and some will likely be more effective than others. Life is short, and I have finite time and energy to dedicate to 'finding my meaning'. I'd prefer to know ahead of time if a strategy is likely to work for me.
exabrial 6y ago
Seek discomfort. Go help at a homeless shelter or local food kitchen. The problem is you've insulated yourself from the reality others live in. There's a lot of good you can do when you have resources.
- Balgair 6y ago
  Related: "The Bible is meant to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable" -Martin Marty
- finnthehuman 6y ago
  I don't think that's quite the advice they need. For any outcome short of dropping everything to rededicate their life to charity full time, the author will still have all the same questions about direction and priorities in their professional life. I can share from my own experience (and from talking with the friends I've made along the way) dedicating your time and resources to charity volunteering is a fulfilling force, but never ultimately so. It doesn't stop whatever is really gnawing on your soul about direction in life. Those things have to be understood and addressed directly.
  - exabrial 6y ago
    I agree. See the first line: "Seek Discomfort". The the first step. There wasn't an implication that this was going to solve his problems, it's that the first step is popping the bubble you live in.
pyrrhotech 6y ago
I felt like that until I got to around $2.5 million liquid net worth. Now I still like money, but each additional dollar is starting to show diminishing marginal utility. Though of course I'm still trying to grow my net worth, it's no longer the main focus of my life, especially now that I'm "retired" from my main career at least. I split my time between gaming, running, reading, socializing and working on my trading bot (got rich the old fashioned way of saving my salary, the bot is for fun and to grow hopefully faster than SPX with better Sharpe ratio, so far so good). I think while you don't have "FU money" it's important for money to be the main focus of your life. You don't have freedom if you don't have a lot of money and you can't be 100% happy without freedom, at least in my experience, though I know opinions vary here.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  I think while you don't have "FU money" it's important for money to be the main focus of your life You may feel very differently when you are looking back on your life near the end of it.
  - taneq 6y ago
    I don't know how old GP is but their life sounds like it's pretty enjoyable and not what we generally picture when we think "a life whose main focus is money". I think what they're saying is that it's important to focus on money early on if it's achievable for you to reach this level of independent wealth in a reasonable time frame.
    - mellosouls 6y ago
      They should probably phrase it better then - as it stands it's terrible advice.
      - tiborsaas 6y ago
        It's not a terrible advice. I'm still trying to but my first apartment at 38. It's essential to have a some financial ability (or willingness to plan ahead at least) to succeed in life.
vdfs 6y ago
There is nothing wrong with making money, usually it's the way people make money that is bad or good, not money itself
- pizza234 6y ago
  It's a bit more complicated than that. When somebody's only goal/pleasure is to make money, it's very easy to lose sight of ethics/empathy, in particular of things in the grey areas. And note that with "grey areas", I mean things that would be repulsive to ordinary people, e.g. patent trolling (is it illegal? no! does it make lots of money? yes! is it unethical? what do you mean? :-)).
hprotagonist 6y ago
“Don’t be cross, uncle!” said the nephew. “What else can I be,” returned the uncle, “when I live in such a world of fools as this? Merry Christmas! Out upon merry Christmas! What’s Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, but not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in ’em through a round dozen of months presented dead against you? If I could work my will,” said Scrooge indignantly, “every idiot who goes about with ‘Merry Christmas’ on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart. He should!” Dickens had this attitude’s number long ago. Do not mistake the writhing in your guts for “an undigested bit of beef”. It’s a more important signal. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46/46-h/46-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46/46-h/46-h.htm
- demygale 6y ago
  Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? —Mary Oliver, Summer Day https://www.loc.gov/programs/poetry-and-literature/poet-laureate/poet-laureate-projects/poetry-180/all-poems/item/poetry-180-133/the-summer-day/ https://www.loc.gov/programs/poetry-and-literature/poet-laur...
  - hprotagonist 6y ago
    “So, friends, every day do something/ that won’t compute.” — Wendell Berry, Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front https://www.context.org/iclib/ic30/berry/ https://www.context.org/iclib/ic30/berry/
  - newbie578 6y ago
    Wow, that is truly a beautiful quote. Thank you!
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - johnisgood 6y ago
    "If you don't have a plan, you become part of somebody else's plan." - Terence McKenna
recursivedoubts 6y ago
All the money in the world ain't gonna by you meaning. But pursuing it might distract you from that fact. For a while.
- sershe 6y ago
  Every time I see a platitude like this it reminds me of those self-compensating put-downs people use like "well she's so pretty, she must be dumb" etc. that have no reason to be true. I feel like meaning is vastly oversold. People didn't have any meaning beyond "survive and make children" for millennia and they did fine. The whole search for meaning I feel has sprung up only among the people who have too much free time ;) I found that I became much happier when I explicitly rejected it, absurdism-style, and then at least partially internalized the notion... it doesn't quite get you back to the natural lack of concern that you have when you are young and don't think of life as finite, but it's the step in the right direction.
  - zd123 6y ago
    I would respectfully disagree. When you say people survived and just had children, what then would explain the popularity of religions throughout human history (ignoring whether they are true or not)? It appears to me people have repeatedly searched for a higher purpose that goes beyond their material situation. Hell its even true with those disconnected native tribes in south America drinking ayahuasca and achieving a higher spiritual purpose. It seems to be built into us to want to transcend our material desires once a certain level of sustenance is reached. Personally, having been a money driven individual earlier in my life (with a high paying job in finance), I quickly realized beyond sustenance for basic needs, money meant little. The reason for this “enlightenment” for me was a serious health problem that made me reevaluate my finite life. So I would wholeheartedly agree with the original post that money cannot buy your life meaning.
    - sershe 6y ago
      Money cannot buy you meaning, but my points were not that... they were that: 1) Saying "well sure you have money but money won't buy meaning" is usually just a self-defense mechanism. "Well I don't have the money, but at least I have meaning [questionable] and he doesn't [also questionable]." Money and meaning are probably uncorrelated. If anything I'd expect an average(!) person with money to have more meaning than average person without, given that by this only point of evidence, they are better at goal-directed behavior of some sort. 2) The 2nd point is the meaning is unnecessary. I am not sure how elaborate the religious life of subsistence farmers was, but I don't think they were looking for anything like meaning in a modern sense... Ditto for getting high on plants. It strikes me more of a curiosity motive to explain the unknown, the kind the drives modern science. To the extent that it involved meaning, it was more of a meaning of the person as a cog in the now-explained world, not some transcendence. Even the nobles/etc. would see their meaning in advancing the agenda of their city-state or smth like that. Going by modern cosmology, there's no inherent meaning in the universe, so any one you choose is just the one you create (arbitrary), or more likely someone else creates for you with their own questionable motives. When I started thinking more of the finite-ness of life given the above, I found that it's not the lack of meaning that's the problem, it's the search itself. In this paradigm, money isn't everything, but time and experience is; and you have far more time and better experience in modern society if you have some minimum cashflow. Ideally, you need e.g. $60-80k/year (iirc that was the happiness plateau in the studies for the USA), ideally without sacrificing ~50% of your waking hours for it.
rubidium 6y ago
Arm-chair psychologist response below :) Good self awareness on the part of the author. Next step is action. When you realize a deficiency in character (judging everything by monetary ROI), there's a concept of "Agere contra" meaning to act against. You choose to do something directly in contrast to the deficiency. So in this case, I'd recommend definitely need to start helping people. For free. In as inefficient way as possible. Something like cutting your elderly neighbors lawn with scissors. Taking a step back, this is the result of (1) insulation from real hardship, (2) capitalist/consumerist brainwashing esp. of the entrepreneurship-fetish of software startups.
SamBorick 6y ago
I used to feel this way. Paradoxically, I've found that completely ignoring income/clicks resolves this problem. Here's what happened to me: 1. Try and make 'the optimal thing'. Something easy to create, and so lucrative that I won't have to make anything else again 2. flail like the author describes 3. decide that no amount of money is worth feeling this way (or otherwise burnout via your method of choice) 4. make nothing for a while (~6 months for me) 5. start missing some aspects of what you used to do 6. gradually start making those things again, with the goal being to make those things. Hopefully step 7 is profit, time will tell. If it's not, I'm ok with that too :)
- pc86 6y ago
  I think this is good advice if your goal is side income along with your high-paying tech job, or perhaps a lifestyle business where you earn enough passively to sit on a beach or ski more often than not. Personally that's where I am (the former) and most programmers who want to "make money online" probably are, too. It's certainly not where the people who want to found a "startup" in the PG sense of the word, or be the CEO of a massive company, are. And (also paradoxically) I think most of them are probably in the same place the author is. Even if they have hobbies and passions, their #1 passion is probably "making more money."
PaulHoule 6y ago
When it comes to making money from advertising there are a few things that just don't work: - japanese animation - programming blogs - blogs about blogging - blog about making money online
deleted 6y ago
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CyberRabbi 6y ago
This is the logical conclusion of a worldview founded in materialism, the dominant philosophy now underlying all human civilization. The reason this article is so provocative is that we’re all in various stages towards this outcome. This is why we model and conceive of our politics in terms of economic systems like capitalism or communism, and not in other potentially more useful terms.
eat_veggies 6y ago
I made a small web page to meditate on this feeling: https://jse.li/goals/ https://jse.li/goals/
yboris 6y ago
Feels like there's an elegant solution to it all: chase the money, but also give it away to cost-effective charities. I've been giving at least 10% of my income to charities for about a decade (a pledge I signed along with thousands of other people at https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/ https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/ ). From this perspective, you're still earning a lot, it's just that you choose to give a fraction of it away. It's not the same as earning less. Plus, giving to research-proven interventions that help others feels like the most meaningful thing I do with my life.
lordnacho 6y ago
He says he has no real interests, but actually he's doing reasonably interesting things to make a living. In a way he's already doing what he wants for a living. If he had a bajillion dollars, might he be doing other things? Sure. But that doesn't mean his only interest is money, it's uncertain whether he'd be doing a variation of the same things. Seems plausible he'd do a video about what it's like to be mega rich. People who are only in it for money are often doing quite mundane things. Would I have stopped my paperroute if I had loads of money as a kid? Yes. Would I stop coding altogether? Probably not, I like it.
- deleted 6y ago
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kace91 6y ago
The post leaves a question unanswered: Are you displeased of not having passions because you think it would be a nice, healthy thing to have? Or is it because you have the impression that people that are passionate about something have an easier time monetizing it, and your ventures are failing because of it? Also, are you sharing this to get some thoughts on the matter? Or to get views for the post and potentially get people to subscribe to your newsletter? The fact that it's even a question is a big hint of what's wrong with chasing business above everything: you might not even know which of your interactions are genuine anymore. Genuine interactions are a human need, and they are fully incompatible with ulterior motives.
- dm319 6y ago
  Yes it's not clear is it? And I suspect that it probably isn't clear in the author's mind either.
bjarneh 6y ago
Most people would like to make enough money not to worry about ever needing to make money; but where does that leave this guy. He has no other interests for when he is finally "rich enough" to stop working? Interesting read nonetheless.
lukas099 6y ago
This post reads like a long humble-brag to me. "Oh how I wish I could stop being so successful in everything I do!"
olesho123 6y ago
Stop for a few minutes and just fix your attention on the "inevitability of death". Contemplate for a moment what would you do/think/value if you die in a month/week/day/hour?
friendlybus 6y ago
We need to work for a sabbath that relativizes work across all classes and gives us a joyous reason to celebrate. Work and escapism alone makes Jack a dull boy. Impostor syndrome is likely grasping at wind. Nobody's going to tell you, you're in a valid life position. That validation is not graspable, because it's not coming.
justforyou 6y ago
The only thing worse than having no soul is whining on the internet about it.
- shakabrah 6y ago
  Snarky comments are definitely worse.
conductr 6y ago
I suffer this too. For me, it’s all tied up in my definition of “success” and not wanting to be a “failure” according to similar definition. I don’t impose it on others, just myself, I actually really admire people that have fun playing sports, have a deeper need for socializing, or other hobbies. I never had time for it, but even then I’m lying to myself. I never prioritized it would be more accurate.
barneygale 6y ago
This has to be the most pathetic piece I've ever seen on HN. Having no interests at all would be preferable.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  I know you are getting downvoted for it but that was my reaction as well.
- SummerlyMars 6y ago
  I read the post as the author being in some amount of distress and wanting to change. These sort of comments read to me as deriding someone who is suffering in order to make the comment writer feel good. "Haha, look at this bad person! He's hurting and he _wants to change!_ Let's mock him!"
varrock 6y ago
I didn't think I had any other interests other than programming. I felt like I had nothing else. One day, I was inspired to go hiking. Ever since, my weekends changed from sitting on a computer, doing something I already did at work, to exploration and being on my feet. Go try something new. If it clicks, great. If it doesn't, I'm sure there is something else you'll find, too. Just get out of your comfort zone.
wayoutthere 6y ago
Here’s the rub: the system is rigged against you. If making money is your only interest, you’re going to be frustrated and in a continuous burnout cycle. American / Western capitalism is dominated by entrenched interests and unless you have an “in” in the form of family connections, a prestigious degree or simply a large bankroll to start, it’s really, really hard to break free. This is by design as it keeps workers desperate while preserving the inter generational wealth for the folks who own everything. This is what is meant by “wealth inequality”. Some people do manage to “make it” in 2020 but it’s more dumb luck than anything. You can do everything right and fail miserably — this is the outcome for most people with your mindset who chase “get rich quick” schemes. Sounds like you’re having cyclical burnout from smashing your head against the wall because every market is crowded and you have no real way to set yourself apart — again, this is by design. Late stage capitalism and all. But even if you do succeed, there’s a good chance you find yourself in your mid 30s with a lot of money but poor social skills and limited interests to draw upon. Women / men of this age tend to be attracted to people who are interesting rather than wealthy. If your only passion is how you make a living, that’s kinda dull. You’re 25 and probably have lots of friends now, but by 35 most of them will be married and doing their own thing and you may see them a couple times a year. If you’re boring and haven’t developed interests, you’re going to be lonely. You can cultivate interests — just do things for the sake of doing them. Once lockdown is over, join a sports league or take dance classes. Do it just to meet people and you’ll eventually find something you like. Money comes and goes with economic cycles and I honestly don’t think the future is very bright economically for most people in the US. Find ways to cope with the existential dread now or you’re going to end up a lonely 35 year old with no friends and few prospects.
- professor_v 6y ago
  > Women / men of this age tend to be attracted to people who are interesting rather than wealthy. I seriously doubt this. Looking at myself I care a lot less about 'interesting' people than I did in my twenties. Maybe interesting is a euphemism for social capital, but social capital is greatly linked to wealth anyway.
tomad 6y ago
It seems to me that directing one's efforts toward making a positive impact on the world is more fulfilling in the long run. Moreover, there are many ways to get to that goal, that could include substantial profit (a startup that creates real value, a successful academic career, senior management in a big corporation that does mostly good things, etc.) Focusing only on money may result in getting money. But money is only a means to an end. I find impact an end in itself.
kadhirvelm 6y ago
Great read, I think understanding what drives this hustle culture, especially in Silicon Valley is probably a good starting point. I’d posit it’s entirely driven by viewing money as a measure, it’s your score in the game of life. At least for lots of other people I’ve met, hustling more equates to wanting to feel superior to people around you, to demand that respect because you have a high score. I’d also posit the OP intuitively understands this and is why they’re looking to “fix” it, why they think this is a problem because it feels like it should be one. And I personally agree, there’s no added meaning to life if you’re only looking to be better than those around you. One day I imagine you’ll realize there’s no winning or losing, there’s just life. It goes on. I think mindfulness can address a lot of the concerns here.
glitchc 6y ago
It's okay to make money and enjoy it. Don't let anyone shame you out of it. It's one of the most sophisticated games on the planet: There are many ways to play, the metric is easy to measure and rewards are immediately tangible. If it sparks joy, keep doing it. Stop only when it doesn't. Me, I enjoy accumulating knowledge. It gives me great joy to know things I didn't know before. I will keep doing this until I stop enjoying it. To each his own, and the freedom to choose is the best part of living in the US.
scythe 6y ago
>I have no real interests or hobbies. If I was shopping for myself I’d probably just buy another book on “growing your side hustle” or one of the many “building a startup” books. Cool, were you born this way? Have you always had no interests? When did you first realize? Okay, I'm being sarcastic. Problems like these might go away on their own. But if you want to actively solve them, you have to look inward, not ask the audience. I don't know what you like; I know what I like. Consider therapy. The reason I suggest therapy is that I'm sensing guilt. Guilt is a sometimes but not always indicator of repressed emotions. Repression is a possible explanation for a lack of interest in pleasurable pursuits. But I, the anonymous Internet stranger with fifteen minutes of mental bandwidth to offer, cannot possibly plumb deeper than that.
scrollbar 6y ago
I find this young person’s perspective so refreshing. They reflect on the different facets of the experience they’re going through. They have self awareness, and cultural awareness. They’re in a hard spot and have some desire to change- and while they beat themselves up a little bit about it they also understand that this self-judgement may not be healthy either! To the author, please keep it up. You remind me a little of me at 25 yet much more articulate and aware. Keep asking the questions, keep paying attention to your feelings, keep on trudging the path. And therapy could really help! Good luck.
thecleaner 6y ago
It just feels like a bad approach to making money. Theres nothing wrong with focussing on money as heartless as it may sound. Also why believe that Google trends are useful proxy what might be viral ? The issue seems to be a lack of precision in execution than simply lack of passion. Also passion hypothesis is deeply flawed and is a source of major mental issues and career dissatisfaction. Please read Carl Newport's book for the anecdotal evidence( the book is So Good They Cant Ignore You). Here it just feels like the OP didnt apply the skills efficiently.
ChrisArchitect 6y ago
brutal post. So you are soulless and starting to realize it. Was this a subtle brag post I dunno. Aren't more and more people starting to realize the endless push for side-hustles and youtube subscibers and making stuff just to sell isn't worth it/healthy? We need more balance
nepeckman 6y ago
> “Dave, I’m working on a youth charity. It’s soo many hours of long work and stressful, but really rewarding.” > “Oh umm…that’s great Pam. But that’s a lot of work, and no money? Like…is it really worth it? Imagine if you turned it into some type of education business. What’s the market like for that? You could charge at least $300 per student.” I find the above comment particularly interesting. Working at a youth charity and starting an education business for privileged kids seems like two very different activities to me, with very different rewards and challenges.
maxekman 6y ago
I have a really hard time motivating myself with money, which probably is a sound thing. On the other hand when I’m committing to a project I’m super picky about the contents of it and team behind it. I have a feeling that this is what prevents me from stepping out of consulting (one man shop) to running my own product/service. Any advice?
lcall 6y ago
Prominent management thinkers Stephen R Covey, Clayton Christensen, and others (Viktor Frankl, etc) have written much useful material about purpose & direction in life, for maximum satisfaction and fulfillment. Things like ~ "make sure the ladder of success isn't leaning against the wrong wall", and the book "How will you measure your life?". I put some references to them & others (Ctrl-F for "references", near the end) here with some of my own thoughts on direction in life (simple site): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854588981.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854588981.html (I'm modifying it for later update, to add a link to content on "if someone is bored" w/ my ideas on hobbies and other possibly worthwhile things to engross oneself, but in the meantime, that is: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581266.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581266.html )
iandanforth 6y ago
Stay away from Vegas. If you're hooked on the dopamine hit of money hitting the bank then you should probably avoid gambling in all forms. Real life (interesting) cautionary tale if you need one: https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54546427 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54546427
- hemantv 6y ago
  Thank you for the link
ybalkind 6y ago
Easy for everyone to point out that its unhealthy to be money focused. But that's missing the point. The author is clearly aware of this problem. The question is how to get out of this cycle..
dorkwood 6y ago
To me, what he seems to enjoy most isn't the act of making money itself, but the act of getting better at making money. The great thing about having "making money" as your hobby is that the feedback for performing competently is very clear: if you're getting better, your numbers will go up. The problem with this hobby, and I suspect this is what the author may be sensing, is that the motivation is extrinsic. The rewards come from outside himself. He is forever reliant on an external force for his own satisfaction. I think the best fit for this guy would be a hobby that is, like his current hobby, based around the mastery of a skill -- something he can practice and see himself getting better at -- but which doesn't require an external rewards system. The good news is that almost any creative hobby can satisfy these requirements. As for which one to pick? I've found that looking back to one's childhood can be immensely helpful. What amazed you as a kid? What's something you really tried to be good at, but you couldn't quite make it work? It doesn't have to feel like passion yet. It just needs to be a seed. A tiny hint at an activity you might find satisfying eventually. If you give yourself enough time and room to play with that thing, you may get to experience that passion taking hold.
drobert 6y ago
People are objective driven so I guess money is an easy objective to have. It's easy to measure, boosts social status, gives you freedom, etc. Until you have FU money it takes a change of attitude to forget money. The people you surround yourself are as well important. Just spend some time with some artists and you'll be more like them. Parts of me feels the same since I moved to a big city where in order to own a house I need to pay mortgage until I'm 60 even if I'm in top ~3% of earners. I guess it's the stress, the uncertainty of our world, the competition, the ego.
aerojoe23 6y ago
I think this is more of a focus problem than not having an interest in anything. Starting your own thing is different than being in school or being an employee. If you were "gifted" with the blessing of being good at school life, not having a defined goal for you could be part of the issue. With school The ability to focus is like a muscle or any other skill, you have to practice it.
fallingfrog 6y ago
I don’t really care about money at all above and beyond what I need to live. But, I do have hobbies and side projects and it does matter to me that my output is useful to someone. If I make a unity asset, or an effects pedal, I want someone to use and enjoy it, otherwise it feels like wasted time. Maybe the author is using money as a proxy for usefulness? I think that above a certain point material goods stop being that interesting to most people. You can explore the world on a motorcycle on a budget of 1000 dollars and have just as much fun as doing it in a private jet. Probably more. But to do interesting things and feel like ones work is appreciated is a fundamental human urge.
BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago
What about girls? For me, money always was only as important as it helped with the girls.
ipiz0618 6y ago
The part where he describes his mind looks exactly like mine... But I am aware I need money only for the freedom to pursue anything other than full-time work.
eschaton 6y ago
It’s called addiction, OP.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
This feels remarkably similar to gambling addiction.

150 points by _davebennett 6y ago

Interesting read! I find that myself more and more. I have some hobbies still like reading (non biz) and fitness but work dominates a lot of my time.

f_allwein 6y ago

If you feel like that yourself, maybe check out "Find your Why" [1] by Simon Sinek of TED fame [2]. I find it useful. [1] https://simonsinek.com/find-your-why/ https://simonsinek.com/find-your-why/ [2] https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_insp...

louwrentius 6y ago
I think Simon Sinek is mostly selling himself. I'm not aware of any scientific research supporting his views.
- minikites 6y ago
  Is science always necessary during the search for meaning?
  - ketanhwr 6y ago
    That sounds like something an anti-vaxxer would say; haha just kidding
  - SummerlyMars 6y ago
    If people use a specific strategy to 'find their meaning', and they're aware whether or not they've found it, then we can get some idea of the efficacy of the strategy over say, doing nothing specific. Is it necessary? No, but there are lots of strategies to choose from, and some will likely be more effective than others. Life is short, and I have finite time and energy to dedicate to 'finding my meaning'. I'd prefer to know ahead of time if a strategy is likely to work for me.

exabrial 6y ago

Seek discomfort. Go help at a homeless shelter or local food kitchen. The problem is you've insulated yourself from the reality others live in. There's a lot of good you can do when you have resources.

Balgair 6y ago
Related: "The Bible is meant to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable" -Martin Marty
finnthehuman 6y ago
I don't think that's quite the advice they need. For any outcome short of dropping everything to rededicate their life to charity full time, the author will still have all the same questions about direction and priorities in their professional life. I can share from my own experience (and from talking with the friends I've made along the way) dedicating your time and resources to charity volunteering is a fulfilling force, but never ultimately so. It doesn't stop whatever is really gnawing on your soul about direction in life. Those things have to be understood and addressed directly.
- exabrial 6y ago
  I agree. See the first line: "Seek Discomfort". The the first step. There wasn't an implication that this was going to solve his problems, it's that the first step is popping the bubble you live in.

pyrrhotech 6y ago

I felt like that until I got to around $2.5 million liquid net worth. Now I still like money, but each additional dollar is starting to show diminishing marginal utility. Though of course I'm still trying to grow my net worth, it's no longer the main focus of my life, especially now that I'm "retired" from my main career at least. I split my time between gaming, running, reading, socializing and working on my trading bot (got rich the old fashioned way of saving my salary, the bot is for fun and to grow hopefully faster than SPX with better Sharpe ratio, so far so good). I think while you don't have "FU money" it's important for money to be the main focus of your life. You don't have freedom if you don't have a lot of money and you can't be 100% happy without freedom, at least in my experience, though I know opinions vary here.

mellosouls 6y ago
I think while you don't have "FU money" it's important for money to be the main focus of your life You may feel very differently when you are looking back on your life near the end of it.
- taneq 6y ago
  I don't know how old GP is but their life sounds like it's pretty enjoyable and not what we generally picture when we think "a life whose main focus is money". I think what they're saying is that it's important to focus on money early on if it's achievable for you to reach this level of independent wealth in a reasonable time frame.
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    They should probably phrase it better then - as it stands it's terrible advice.
    - tiborsaas 6y ago
      It's not a terrible advice. I'm still trying to but my first apartment at 38. It's essential to have a some financial ability (or willingness to plan ahead at least) to succeed in life.

vdfs 6y ago

There is nothing wrong with making money, usually it's the way people make money that is bad or good, not money itself

pizza234 6y ago
It's a bit more complicated than that. When somebody's only goal/pleasure is to make money, it's very easy to lose sight of ethics/empathy, in particular of things in the grey areas. And note that with "grey areas", I mean things that would be repulsive to ordinary people, e.g. patent trolling (is it illegal? no! does it make lots of money? yes! is it unethical? what do you mean? :-)).

hprotagonist 6y ago

“Don’t be cross, uncle!” said the nephew. “What else can I be,” returned the uncle, “when I live in such a world of fools as this? Merry Christmas! Out upon merry Christmas! What’s Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, but not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in ’em through a round dozen of months presented dead against you? If I could work my will,” said Scrooge indignantly, “every idiot who goes about with ‘Merry Christmas’ on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart. He should!” Dickens had this attitude’s number long ago. Do not mistake the writhing in your guts for “an undigested bit of beef”. It’s a more important signal. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46/46-h/46-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46/46-h/46-h.htm

demygale 6y ago
Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? —Mary Oliver, Summer Day https://www.loc.gov/programs/poetry-and-literature/poet-laureate/poet-laureate-projects/poetry-180/all-poems/item/poetry-180-133/the-summer-day/ https://www.loc.gov/programs/poetry-and-literature/poet-laur...
- hprotagonist 6y ago
  “So, friends, every day do something/ that won’t compute.” — Wendell Berry, Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front https://www.context.org/iclib/ic30/berry/ https://www.context.org/iclib/ic30/berry/
- newbie578 6y ago
  Wow, that is truly a beautiful quote. Thank you!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- johnisgood 6y ago
  "If you don't have a plan, you become part of somebody else's plan." - Terence McKenna

recursivedoubts 6y ago

All the money in the world ain't gonna by you meaning. But pursuing it might distract you from that fact. For a while.

sershe 6y ago
Every time I see a platitude like this it reminds me of those self-compensating put-downs people use like "well she's so pretty, she must be dumb" etc. that have no reason to be true. I feel like meaning is vastly oversold. People didn't have any meaning beyond "survive and make children" for millennia and they did fine. The whole search for meaning I feel has sprung up only among the people who have too much free time ;) I found that I became much happier when I explicitly rejected it, absurdism-style, and then at least partially internalized the notion... it doesn't quite get you back to the natural lack of concern that you have when you are young and don't think of life as finite, but it's the step in the right direction.
- zd123 6y ago
  I would respectfully disagree. When you say people survived and just had children, what then would explain the popularity of religions throughout human history (ignoring whether they are true or not)? It appears to me people have repeatedly searched for a higher purpose that goes beyond their material situation. Hell its even true with those disconnected native tribes in south America drinking ayahuasca and achieving a higher spiritual purpose. It seems to be built into us to want to transcend our material desires once a certain level of sustenance is reached. Personally, having been a money driven individual earlier in my life (with a high paying job in finance), I quickly realized beyond sustenance for basic needs, money meant little. The reason for this “enlightenment” for me was a serious health problem that made me reevaluate my finite life. So I would wholeheartedly agree with the original post that money cannot buy your life meaning.
  - sershe 6y ago
    Money cannot buy you meaning, but my points were not that... they were that: 1) Saying "well sure you have money but money won't buy meaning" is usually just a self-defense mechanism. "Well I don't have the money, but at least I have meaning [questionable] and he doesn't [also questionable]." Money and meaning are probably uncorrelated. If anything I'd expect an average(!) person with money to have more meaning than average person without, given that by this only point of evidence, they are better at goal-directed behavior of some sort. 2) The 2nd point is the meaning is unnecessary. I am not sure how elaborate the religious life of subsistence farmers was, but I don't think they were looking for anything like meaning in a modern sense... Ditto for getting high on plants. It strikes me more of a curiosity motive to explain the unknown, the kind the drives modern science. To the extent that it involved meaning, it was more of a meaning of the person as a cog in the now-explained world, not some transcendence. Even the nobles/etc. would see their meaning in advancing the agenda of their city-state or smth like that. Going by modern cosmology, there's no inherent meaning in the universe, so any one you choose is just the one you create (arbitrary), or more likely someone else creates for you with their own questionable motives. When I started thinking more of the finite-ness of life given the above, I found that it's not the lack of meaning that's the problem, it's the search itself. In this paradigm, money isn't everything, but time and experience is; and you have far more time and better experience in modern society if you have some minimum cashflow. Ideally, you need e.g. $60-80k/year (iirc that was the happiness plateau in the studies for the USA), ideally without sacrificing ~50% of your waking hours for it.

rubidium 6y ago

Arm-chair psychologist response below :) Good self awareness on the part of the author. Next step is action. When you realize a deficiency in character (judging everything by monetary ROI), there's a concept of "Agere contra" meaning to act against. You choose to do something directly in contrast to the deficiency. So in this case, I'd recommend definitely need to start helping people. For free. In as inefficient way as possible. Something like cutting your elderly neighbors lawn with scissors. Taking a step back, this is the result of (1) insulation from real hardship, (2) capitalist/consumerist brainwashing esp. of the entrepreneurship-fetish of software startups.

SamBorick 6y ago

I used to feel this way. Paradoxically, I've found that completely ignoring income/clicks resolves this problem. Here's what happened to me: 1. Try and make 'the optimal thing'. Something easy to create, and so lucrative that I won't have to make anything else again 2. flail like the author describes 3. decide that no amount of money is worth feeling this way (or otherwise burnout via your method of choice) 4. make nothing for a while (~6 months for me) 5. start missing some aspects of what you used to do 6. gradually start making those things again, with the goal being to make those things. Hopefully step 7 is profit, time will tell. If it's not, I'm ok with that too :)

pc86 6y ago
I think this is good advice if your goal is side income along with your high-paying tech job, or perhaps a lifestyle business where you earn enough passively to sit on a beach or ski more often than not. Personally that's where I am (the former) and most programmers who want to "make money online" probably are, too. It's certainly not where the people who want to found a "startup" in the PG sense of the word, or be the CEO of a massive company, are. And (also paradoxically) I think most of them are probably in the same place the author is. Even if they have hobbies and passions, their #1 passion is probably "making more money."

PaulHoule 6y ago

When it comes to making money from advertising there are a few things that just don't work: - japanese animation - programming blogs - blogs about blogging - blog about making money online

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CyberRabbi 6y ago

This is the logical conclusion of a worldview founded in materialism, the dominant philosophy now underlying all human civilization. The reason this article is so provocative is that we’re all in various stages towards this outcome. This is why we model and conceive of our politics in terms of economic systems like capitalism or communism, and not in other potentially more useful terms.

eat_veggies 6y ago

I made a small web page to meditate on this feeling: https://jse.li/goals/ https://jse.li/goals/

yboris 6y ago

Feels like there's an elegant solution to it all: chase the money, but also give it away to cost-effective charities. I've been giving at least 10% of my income to charities for about a decade (a pledge I signed along with thousands of other people at https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/ https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/ ). From this perspective, you're still earning a lot, it's just that you choose to give a fraction of it away. It's not the same as earning less. Plus, giving to research-proven interventions that help others feels like the most meaningful thing I do with my life.

lordnacho 6y ago

He says he has no real interests, but actually he's doing reasonably interesting things to make a living. In a way he's already doing what he wants for a living. If he had a bajillion dollars, might he be doing other things? Sure. But that doesn't mean his only interest is money, it's uncertain whether he'd be doing a variation of the same things. Seems plausible he'd do a video about what it's like to be mega rich. People who are only in it for money are often doing quite mundane things. Would I have stopped my paperroute if I had loads of money as a kid? Yes. Would I stop coding altogether? Probably not, I like it.

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kace91 6y ago

The post leaves a question unanswered: Are you displeased of not having passions because you think it would be a nice, healthy thing to have? Or is it because you have the impression that people that are passionate about something have an easier time monetizing it, and your ventures are failing because of it? Also, are you sharing this to get some thoughts on the matter? Or to get views for the post and potentially get people to subscribe to your newsletter? The fact that it's even a question is a big hint of what's wrong with chasing business above everything: you might not even know which of your interactions are genuine anymore. Genuine interactions are a human need, and they are fully incompatible with ulterior motives.

dm319 6y ago
Yes it's not clear is it? And I suspect that it probably isn't clear in the author's mind either.

bjarneh 6y ago

Most people would like to make enough money not to worry about ever needing to make money; but where does that leave this guy. He has no other interests for when he is finally "rich enough" to stop working? Interesting read nonetheless.

lukas099 6y ago

This post reads like a long humble-brag to me. "Oh how I wish I could stop being so successful in everything I do!"

olesho123 6y ago

Stop for a few minutes and just fix your attention on the "inevitability of death". Contemplate for a moment what would you do/think/value if you die in a month/week/day/hour?

friendlybus 6y ago

We need to work for a sabbath that relativizes work across all classes and gives us a joyous reason to celebrate. Work and escapism alone makes Jack a dull boy. Impostor syndrome is likely grasping at wind. Nobody's going to tell you, you're in a valid life position. That validation is not graspable, because it's not coming.

justforyou 6y ago

The only thing worse than having no soul is whining on the internet about it.

shakabrah 6y ago
Snarky comments are definitely worse.

conductr 6y ago

I suffer this too. For me, it’s all tied up in my definition of “success” and not wanting to be a “failure” according to similar definition. I don’t impose it on others, just myself, I actually really admire people that have fun playing sports, have a deeper need for socializing, or other hobbies. I never had time for it, but even then I’m lying to myself. I never prioritized it would be more accurate.

barneygale 6y ago

This has to be the most pathetic piece I've ever seen on HN. Having no interests at all would be preferable.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
I know you are getting downvoted for it but that was my reaction as well.
SummerlyMars 6y ago
I read the post as the author being in some amount of distress and wanting to change. These sort of comments read to me as deriding someone who is suffering in order to make the comment writer feel good. "Haha, look at this bad person! He's hurting and he _wants to change!_ Let's mock him!"

varrock 6y ago

I didn't think I had any other interests other than programming. I felt like I had nothing else. One day, I was inspired to go hiking. Ever since, my weekends changed from sitting on a computer, doing something I already did at work, to exploration and being on my feet. Go try something new. If it clicks, great. If it doesn't, I'm sure there is something else you'll find, too. Just get out of your comfort zone.

wayoutthere 6y ago

Here’s the rub: the system is rigged against you. If making money is your only interest, you’re going to be frustrated and in a continuous burnout cycle. American / Western capitalism is dominated by entrenched interests and unless you have an “in” in the form of family connections, a prestigious degree or simply a large bankroll to start, it’s really, really hard to break free. This is by design as it keeps workers desperate while preserving the inter generational wealth for the folks who own everything. This is what is meant by “wealth inequality”. Some people do manage to “make it” in 2020 but it’s more dumb luck than anything. You can do everything right and fail miserably — this is the outcome for most people with your mindset who chase “get rich quick” schemes. Sounds like you’re having cyclical burnout from smashing your head against the wall because every market is crowded and you have no real way to set yourself apart — again, this is by design. Late stage capitalism and all. But even if you do succeed, there’s a good chance you find yourself in your mid 30s with a lot of money but poor social skills and limited interests to draw upon. Women / men of this age tend to be attracted to people who are interesting rather than wealthy. If your only passion is how you make a living, that’s kinda dull. You’re 25 and probably have lots of friends now, but by 35 most of them will be married and doing their own thing and you may see them a couple times a year. If you’re boring and haven’t developed interests, you’re going to be lonely. You can cultivate interests — just do things for the sake of doing them. Once lockdown is over, join a sports league or take dance classes. Do it just to meet people and you’ll eventually find something you like. Money comes and goes with economic cycles and I honestly don’t think the future is very bright economically for most people in the US. Find ways to cope with the existential dread now or you’re going to end up a lonely 35 year old with no friends and few prospects.

professor_v 6y ago
> Women / men of this age tend to be attracted to people who are interesting rather than wealthy. I seriously doubt this. Looking at myself I care a lot less about 'interesting' people than I did in my twenties. Maybe interesting is a euphemism for social capital, but social capital is greatly linked to wealth anyway.

tomad 6y ago

It seems to me that directing one's efforts toward making a positive impact on the world is more fulfilling in the long run. Moreover, there are many ways to get to that goal, that could include substantial profit (a startup that creates real value, a successful academic career, senior management in a big corporation that does mostly good things, etc.) Focusing only on money may result in getting money. But money is only a means to an end. I find impact an end in itself.

kadhirvelm 6y ago

Great read, I think understanding what drives this hustle culture, especially in Silicon Valley is probably a good starting point. I’d posit it’s entirely driven by viewing money as a measure, it’s your score in the game of life. At least for lots of other people I’ve met, hustling more equates to wanting to feel superior to people around you, to demand that respect because you have a high score. I’d also posit the OP intuitively understands this and is why they’re looking to “fix” it, why they think this is a problem because it feels like it should be one. And I personally agree, there’s no added meaning to life if you’re only looking to be better than those around you. One day I imagine you’ll realize there’s no winning or losing, there’s just life. It goes on. I think mindfulness can address a lot of the concerns here.

glitchc 6y ago

It's okay to make money and enjoy it. Don't let anyone shame you out of it. It's one of the most sophisticated games on the planet: There are many ways to play, the metric is easy to measure and rewards are immediately tangible. If it sparks joy, keep doing it. Stop only when it doesn't. Me, I enjoy accumulating knowledge. It gives me great joy to know things I didn't know before. I will keep doing this until I stop enjoying it. To each his own, and the freedom to choose is the best part of living in the US.

scythe 6y ago

>I have no real interests or hobbies. If I was shopping for myself I’d probably just buy another book on “growing your side hustle” or one of the many “building a startup” books. Cool, were you born this way? Have you always had no interests? When did you first realize? Okay, I'm being sarcastic. Problems like these might go away on their own. But if you want to actively solve them, you have to look inward, not ask the audience. I don't know what you like; I know what I like. Consider therapy. The reason I suggest therapy is that I'm sensing guilt. Guilt is a sometimes but not always indicator of repressed emotions. Repression is a possible explanation for a lack of interest in pleasurable pursuits. But I, the anonymous Internet stranger with fifteen minutes of mental bandwidth to offer, cannot possibly plumb deeper than that.

scrollbar 6y ago

I find this young person’s perspective so refreshing. They reflect on the different facets of the experience they’re going through. They have self awareness, and cultural awareness. They’re in a hard spot and have some desire to change- and while they beat themselves up a little bit about it they also understand that this self-judgement may not be healthy either! To the author, please keep it up. You remind me a little of me at 25 yet much more articulate and aware. Keep asking the questions, keep paying attention to your feelings, keep on trudging the path. And therapy could really help! Good luck.

thecleaner 6y ago

It just feels like a bad approach to making money. Theres nothing wrong with focussing on money as heartless as it may sound. Also why believe that Google trends are useful proxy what might be viral ? The issue seems to be a lack of precision in execution than simply lack of passion. Also passion hypothesis is deeply flawed and is a source of major mental issues and career dissatisfaction. Please read Carl Newport's book for the anecdotal evidence( the book is So Good They Cant Ignore You). Here it just feels like the OP didnt apply the skills efficiently.

ChrisArchitect 6y ago

brutal post. So you are soulless and starting to realize it. Was this a subtle brag post I dunno. Aren't more and more people starting to realize the endless push for side-hustles and youtube subscibers and making stuff just to sell isn't worth it/healthy? We need more balance

nepeckman 6y ago

> “Dave, I’m working on a youth charity. It’s soo many hours of long work and stressful, but really rewarding.” > “Oh umm…that’s great Pam. But that’s a lot of work, and no money? Like…is it really worth it? Imagine if you turned it into some type of education business. What’s the market like for that? You could charge at least $300 per student.” I find the above comment particularly interesting. Working at a youth charity and starting an education business for privileged kids seems like two very different activities to me, with very different rewards and challenges.

maxekman 6y ago

I have a really hard time motivating myself with money, which probably is a sound thing. On the other hand when I’m committing to a project I’m super picky about the contents of it and team behind it. I have a feeling that this is what prevents me from stepping out of consulting (one man shop) to running my own product/service. Any advice?

lcall 6y ago

Prominent management thinkers Stephen R Covey, Clayton Christensen, and others (Viktor Frankl, etc) have written much useful material about purpose & direction in life, for maximum satisfaction and fulfillment. Things like ~ "make sure the ladder of success isn't leaning against the wrong wall", and the book "How will you measure your life?". I put some references to them & others (Ctrl-F for "references", near the end) here with some of my own thoughts on direction in life (simple site): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854588981.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854588981.html (I'm modifying it for later update, to add a link to content on "if someone is bored" w/ my ideas on hobbies and other possibly worthwhile things to engross oneself, but in the meantime, that is: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581266.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581266.html )

iandanforth 6y ago

Stay away from Vegas. If you're hooked on the dopamine hit of money hitting the bank then you should probably avoid gambling in all forms. Real life (interesting) cautionary tale if you need one: https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54546427 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54546427

hemantv 6y ago
Thank you for the link

ybalkind 6y ago

Easy for everyone to point out that its unhealthy to be money focused. But that's missing the point. The author is clearly aware of this problem. The question is how to get out of this cycle..

dorkwood 6y ago

To me, what he seems to enjoy most isn't the act of making money itself, but the act of getting better at making money. The great thing about having "making money" as your hobby is that the feedback for performing competently is very clear: if you're getting better, your numbers will go up. The problem with this hobby, and I suspect this is what the author may be sensing, is that the motivation is extrinsic. The rewards come from outside himself. He is forever reliant on an external force for his own satisfaction. I think the best fit for this guy would be a hobby that is, like his current hobby, based around the mastery of a skill -- something he can practice and see himself getting better at -- but which doesn't require an external rewards system. The good news is that almost any creative hobby can satisfy these requirements. As for which one to pick? I've found that looking back to one's childhood can be immensely helpful. What amazed you as a kid? What's something you really tried to be good at, but you couldn't quite make it work? It doesn't have to feel like passion yet. It just needs to be a seed. A tiny hint at an activity you might find satisfying eventually. If you give yourself enough time and room to play with that thing, you may get to experience that passion taking hold.

drobert 6y ago

People are objective driven so I guess money is an easy objective to have. It's easy to measure, boosts social status, gives you freedom, etc. Until you have FU money it takes a change of attitude to forget money. The people you surround yourself are as well important. Just spend some time with some artists and you'll be more like them. Parts of me feels the same since I moved to a big city where in order to own a house I need to pay mortgage until I'm 60 even if I'm in top ~3% of earners. I guess it's the stress, the uncertainty of our world, the competition, the ego.

aerojoe23 6y ago

I think this is more of a focus problem than not having an interest in anything. Starting your own thing is different than being in school or being an employee. If you were "gifted" with the blessing of being good at school life, not having a defined goal for you could be part of the issue. With school The ability to focus is like a muscle or any other skill, you have to practice it.

fallingfrog 6y ago

I don’t really care about money at all above and beyond what I need to live. But, I do have hobbies and side projects and it does matter to me that my output is useful to someone. If I make a unity asset, or an effects pedal, I want someone to use and enjoy it, otherwise it feels like wasted time. Maybe the author is using money as a proxy for usefulness? I think that above a certain point material goods stop being that interesting to most people. You can explore the world on a motorcycle on a budget of 1000 dollars and have just as much fun as doing it in a private jet. Probably more. But to do interesting things and feel like ones work is appreciated is a fundamental human urge.

BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago

What about girls? For me, money always was only as important as it helped with the girls.

ipiz0618 6y ago

The part where he describes his mind looks exactly like mine... But I am aware I need money only for the freedom to pursue anything other than full-time work.

eschaton 6y ago

It’s called addiction, OP.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

This feels remarkably similar to gambling addiction.