5 ms·

Are you saying that "so many" men were accidentally raping as there was no implicit consent? That's ridiculous. As the article alludes, sex is not a scary and h

by tone 6y ago

Are you saying that "so many" men were accidentally raping as there was no implicit consent? That's ridiculous. As the article alludes, sex is not a scary and horrible minefield, and the idea of consent shouldn't be overused and watered down to apply to every difficult situation. You're describing power within an industry, not our culture. You are for no reason attributing the action of a few to many. Which is sexist.

loopz 6y ago
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- tone 6y ago
  The masses....? I think you've lost it a bit here.
  - loopz 6y ago
    --
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      Democracy (at least the US flavor of it) has run its course and is no longer working - since apparently the president can appoint the top brass of the judicial branch, and the house can just make legal action against the president go away. To name a few examples. Also voting is not considered a right or obligation, but a privilege. I can go on.
      - roenxi 6y ago
        Technical point, but US democracy has survived a literal civil war in the past and been fine. The US would continue doing fine if it carried on this way for another 100 years. Although the politicians might want to implement some wealth creation policies imho instead of experiments with literally banning working. The change is the corruption is visible now that the internet is a thing. The making of the democratic sausage has always been a disgusting process.
onion2k 6y ago
You are for no reason attributing the action of a few to many. The point is that it isn't a few men. If you listen to women most of them have accounts of how they've been harassed in some way. A recent (2018) survey[1] found that 81% of women had experienced verbal sexual harassment, and 27% reported physical sexual assault. That is not "a few" men giving the rest a bad name. Also it is not sexist to point it out. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587671849/a-new-survey-finds-eighty-percent-of-women-have-experienced-sexual-harassment https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587671849...
- watwut 6y ago
  I think it is minority of men doing the same thing again and again and again. Verbal sexual harassment is specifically something that one person can do to many others within short time. But I remember reading that rapes are similar. One person is doing it multiple times till he get caught.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    I hope so. It would be appalling if it was a majority of men. I don't think we can really state that as a fact without more research though.
  - didibus 6y ago
    That's a good point. As a men, I am always like in total shock when I read about some of these stories. I always think? What who does that? I never ever even thought of doing that? And wondered like, am I the outlier? Do everyone else just call their coworkers to their office waiting for them with their member out? How come so many women have had that experience? But I think it is very possible like you said that a few can impact a lot of women by just repeated behavior. Somehow I hope so at least.
- NalNezumi 6y ago
  >A recent (2018) survey[1] found that 81% of women had experienced verbal sexual harassment, and 27% reported physical sexual assault. Sorry but this stats does not support your claim...? If the stats phrasing was "81% of men had conducted" it would support your claim, but experienced doesn't in any way means that every woman that experienced harassment experienced it from one unique male each time (which is probably the least likely implication of all). It is sexist to point it out, just at it is racist to point to incarceration rate (weighted by population) of blacks to call a black person more prone to disobedience. (or male incarceration rate, for that matter) It is a classical classroom example case of misrepresentation of statistic to make discriminatory remark, or shift the blame to a group.
didibus 6y ago
Not OP, but I'm pretty sure they meant that too many men were deliberately raping or abusing women against their consent, through force, extortion, manipulation, deceit and incapacitation. And that this is where the MeToo movement came from, to show people just how prevalent this is. > and the idea of consent shouldn't be overused and watered down to apply to every difficult situation I got the impression that's what the article was doing. That was my main issue, it seems to take consent and MeToo and frame it in a very juvenile manner, contextualized with teenagers getting to know their sexuality and first experimenting not sure about what they want, like or how to act. Where consent and MeToo is about preventing serious sexual abuse, not dealing with a breakup or an ackward kiss.
- noobermin 6y ago
  The article explicitly talks about the Warren Ellis case which is not about consent at all but something that sounds like an unscrupulous man.

by tone 6y ago

loopz 6y ago

tone 6y ago
The masses....? I think you've lost it a bit here.
- loopz 6y ago
  --
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    Democracy (at least the US flavor of it) has run its course and is no longer working - since apparently the president can appoint the top brass of the judicial branch, and the house can just make legal action against the president go away. To name a few examples. Also voting is not considered a right or obligation, but a privilege. I can go on.
    - roenxi 6y ago
      Technical point, but US democracy has survived a literal civil war in the past and been fine. The US would continue doing fine if it carried on this way for another 100 years. Although the politicians might want to implement some wealth creation policies imho instead of experiments with literally banning working. The change is the corruption is visible now that the internet is a thing. The making of the democratic sausage has always been a disgusting process.

onion2k 6y ago

You are for no reason attributing the action of a few to many. The point is that it isn't a few men. If you listen to women most of them have accounts of how they've been harassed in some way. A recent (2018) survey[1] found that 81% of women had experienced verbal sexual harassment, and 27% reported physical sexual assault. That is not "a few" men giving the rest a bad name. Also it is not sexist to point it out. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587671849/a-new-survey-finds-eighty-percent-of-women-have-experienced-sexual-harassment https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587671849...

watwut 6y ago
I think it is minority of men doing the same thing again and again and again. Verbal sexual harassment is specifically something that one person can do to many others within short time. But I remember reading that rapes are similar. One person is doing it multiple times till he get caught.
- onion2k 6y ago
  I hope so. It would be appalling if it was a majority of men. I don't think we can really state that as a fact without more research though.
- didibus 6y ago
  That's a good point. As a men, I am always like in total shock when I read about some of these stories. I always think? What who does that? I never ever even thought of doing that? And wondered like, am I the outlier? Do everyone else just call their coworkers to their office waiting for them with their member out? How come so many women have had that experience? But I think it is very possible like you said that a few can impact a lot of women by just repeated behavior. Somehow I hope so at least.
NalNezumi 6y ago
>A recent (2018) survey[1] found that 81% of women had experienced verbal sexual harassment, and 27% reported physical sexual assault. Sorry but this stats does not support your claim...? If the stats phrasing was "81% of men had conducted" it would support your claim, but experienced doesn't in any way means that every woman that experienced harassment experienced it from one unique male each time (which is probably the least likely implication of all). It is sexist to point it out, just at it is racist to point to incarceration rate (weighted by population) of blacks to call a black person more prone to disobedience. (or male incarceration rate, for that matter) It is a classical classroom example case of misrepresentation of statistic to make discriminatory remark, or shift the blame to a group.

didibus 6y ago

Not OP, but I'm pretty sure they meant that too many men were deliberately raping or abusing women against their consent, through force, extortion, manipulation, deceit and incapacitation. And that this is where the MeToo movement came from, to show people just how prevalent this is. > and the idea of consent shouldn't be overused and watered down to apply to every difficult situation I got the impression that's what the article was doing. That was my main issue, it seems to take consent and MeToo and frame it in a very juvenile manner, contextualized with teenagers getting to know their sexuality and first experimenting not sure about what they want, like or how to act. Where consent and MeToo is about preventing serious sexual abuse, not dealing with a breakup or an ackward kiss.

noobermin 6y ago
The article explicitly talks about the Warren Ellis case which is not about consent at all but something that sounds like an unscrupulous man.