5 ms·

Collection of documents that startups commonly need: Privacy Policy, NDA, etc...

220 points by x03 15y ago

duck 15y ago
I like the idea, but I just don't see startups needing or using an email disclaimer. Plus they are pretty much worthless legal wise - http://www.economist.com/node/18529895 http://www.economist.com/node/18529895.
- x03 15y ago
  Thanks...yeah, we appreciate that an email disclaimer isn't necessarily the most effective means legally, but they're still in such wide-spread use that they do carry a certain weight to them that a lot of people find re-assuring to have, hence their inclusion. We hope a lot more people will find the privacy policy, NDA and the coming terms of use more helpful...and we hope to have some other documents up soon, too...so, don't forget to bookmark it! :)
  - sunchild 15y ago
    Sorry, but this is why those silly disclaimers continue to propagate. They are nothing but noise in most cases. An exception might be tax advice disclosures.
- woodall 15y ago
  The comments for that article are worth a read: Zouf wrote: While you are mostly correct, there is one good legal use of an email footer: to declare the data above it as confidential, and therefore comply with confidentiality agreements that protect only data that has been explicitly declared as confidential. I found this one particularly funny: stewsnooze wrote: Practice what you preach....... This e-mail may contain confidential material. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies. It may also contain personal views which are not the views of The Economist Group. We may monitor e-mail to and from our network... http://www.economist.com/comment/886653#comment-886653 http://www.economist.com/comment/886653#comment-886653 I wouldn't start leaving them out just yet.
  - cschmidt 15y ago
    Well, they do mention in the article that they do it themselves.... > Many firms—The Economist included—automatically append these sorts of disclaimers to every message sent from their e-mail servers, no matter how brief and trivial the message itself might be.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  This isn't true. Email disclaimers can't unilaterally create a contract between the sender and receiver. This doesn't mean they are legally worthless. Two legally useful email disclaimers: "this is not legal advice" and "this is not an offer to buy or sell securities". These are both legally binding, because they merely remove potential ambiguity from an email and explicitly state the absence of a contract. Without the disclaimer, the text of an email might otherwise be interpreted to mean that a contract was present.
  - chc 15y ago
    Really? If the email actually looks like an offer to buy or sell securities, I would imagine the disclaimer could be viewed as either mindless boilerplate with no genuine intent behind it or subterfuge. Like, I wouldn't imagine you could send an email along the lines of, "Hey, I'm looking to buy some securities. You in, bro? DISCLAIMER: This is not an offer to buy or sell securities."
    - jonnathanson 15y ago
      Everything gets tested at the extremes, but for the most part, email disclaimers are there as minor CYA measures for the sender of the email. Lawyers use them all the time, for instance, so that nobody misinterprets their daily chatter or off-the-cuff advice as constituting an official attorney-client relationship with the recipient. Obviously you can't hide behind an email disclaimer to C your A if your A is blatantly violating the letter or spirit of the disclaimer.
    - yummyfajitas 15y ago
      Your specific example doesn't read to me like subterfuge at all. It looks to me like an informal discussion which may lead to a purchase of securities. After you say "yes" via email, we will probably construct an actual contract specifying details. The disclaimer makes certain that both you and I realize this isn't an offer, just a conversation. You might get into trouble if you routinely engaged in securities transactions via email with such a disclaimer. But if you handle all actual trades with a legalistic form containing no disclaimer, and informal conversations in email with a disclaimer, the disclaimer is likely to hold up in court.
gtani 15y ago
http://www.docstoc.com/documents/legal/ http://www.docstoc.com/documents/legal/ http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/startup/index.asp http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/... http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/startup/forms_corporate_formation.asp http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/... http://www.businessinsider.com/legal-documents-for-your-startup-2009-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/legal-documents-for-your-star...
woodall 15y ago
I know you are not offering legal advice, which IMO is good, but has the language in any of these documents been looked over by a profession/practicing lawyer? Other than that, these are great; I'll be using the Privacy Policy and NDA.
- x03 15y ago
  We feel all the documents on PearWords are solid, concise and fair to both parties. That said, we've not had these certified by a practicing lawyer simply because even if we do most people would still rather have a lawyer they know and trust do it for them before signing a contract, especially considering the variety of territories that PearWord's audience is located. It should be a fair bit cheaper to have a lawyer look over and change where appropriate any details than have them write an original document for you. PearWords strongly advise that any person have a lawyer vet and modify where necessary any legal documents before signing them, no matter the situation. Thanks for your comment! :)
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - x03 15y ago
      We're seriously not even trying to be web2.0 (have you seen our site?), we just liked the name and pretty much everyone we've talked to agrees on that. We appreciate your feedback though! Thanks a lot for taking the time to let us know your thoughts. :)
    - YooLi 15y ago
      Out of curiosity, is there something special about "p" words that you base your suggestions on?
  - kovar 15y ago
    So what is the downside to you vetting these documents via a lawyer first? Ensuring that the documents are even a little bit better will save your users collectively a lot of legal fees.
jamiecurle 15y ago
The privacy policy states PearWords does not... Place "cookies" (small text files) on your system for any reason. I would beg to differ, it may be Google Analytics dropping the cookies on pearwords' behalf, but they're still there. (http://d.pr/D3oy http://d.pr/D3oy)
- scott_s 15y ago
  Go ahead and use full URLs. HN will shorten its display if it's too long, and we prefer to see where we're going.
  - ojilles 15y ago
    I guess this is a bit of special case as the service this person is using only has these short URLs :-)
    - jamiecurle 15y ago
      Yes, I should have explicitly stated it was linking to a screenshot on droplr. Apologies.
blhack 15y ago
This is excellent, thank you to whoever is putting it together.
- arnorhs 15y ago
  I second that. On a side note - It's very strange that there's no email address, no name of the person/persons behind this, no twitter account etc. Just the contact form. I mean, I'd like to follow whoever did this on twitter.
  - x03 15y ago
    Thanks! :) I'm working on getting us a "Team" page to showcase all our talent with pictures, Twitter links, etc...

220 points by x03 15y ago

duck 15y ago

I like the idea, but I just don't see startups needing or using an email disclaimer. Plus they are pretty much worthless legal wise - http://www.economist.com/node/18529895 http://www.economist.com/node/18529895.

x03 15y ago
Thanks...yeah, we appreciate that an email disclaimer isn't necessarily the most effective means legally, but they're still in such wide-spread use that they do carry a certain weight to them that a lot of people find re-assuring to have, hence their inclusion. We hope a lot more people will find the privacy policy, NDA and the coming terms of use more helpful...and we hope to have some other documents up soon, too...so, don't forget to bookmark it! :)
- sunchild 15y ago
  Sorry, but this is why those silly disclaimers continue to propagate. They are nothing but noise in most cases. An exception might be tax advice disclosures.
woodall 15y ago
The comments for that article are worth a read: Zouf wrote: While you are mostly correct, there is one good legal use of an email footer: to declare the data above it as confidential, and therefore comply with confidentiality agreements that protect only data that has been explicitly declared as confidential. I found this one particularly funny: stewsnooze wrote: Practice what you preach....... This e-mail may contain confidential material. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies. It may also contain personal views which are not the views of The Economist Group. We may monitor e-mail to and from our network... http://www.economist.com/comment/886653#comment-886653 http://www.economist.com/comment/886653#comment-886653 I wouldn't start leaving them out just yet.
- cschmidt 15y ago
  Well, they do mention in the article that they do it themselves.... > Many firms—The Economist included—automatically append these sorts of disclaimers to every message sent from their e-mail servers, no matter how brief and trivial the message itself might be.
yummyfajitas 15y ago
This isn't true. Email disclaimers can't unilaterally create a contract between the sender and receiver. This doesn't mean they are legally worthless. Two legally useful email disclaimers: "this is not legal advice" and "this is not an offer to buy or sell securities". These are both legally binding, because they merely remove potential ambiguity from an email and explicitly state the absence of a contract. Without the disclaimer, the text of an email might otherwise be interpreted to mean that a contract was present.
- chc 15y ago
  Really? If the email actually looks like an offer to buy or sell securities, I would imagine the disclaimer could be viewed as either mindless boilerplate with no genuine intent behind it or subterfuge. Like, I wouldn't imagine you could send an email along the lines of, "Hey, I'm looking to buy some securities. You in, bro? DISCLAIMER: This is not an offer to buy or sell securities."
  - jonnathanson 15y ago
    Everything gets tested at the extremes, but for the most part, email disclaimers are there as minor CYA measures for the sender of the email. Lawyers use them all the time, for instance, so that nobody misinterprets their daily chatter or off-the-cuff advice as constituting an official attorney-client relationship with the recipient. Obviously you can't hide behind an email disclaimer to C your A if your A is blatantly violating the letter or spirit of the disclaimer.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    Your specific example doesn't read to me like subterfuge at all. It looks to me like an informal discussion which may lead to a purchase of securities. After you say "yes" via email, we will probably construct an actual contract specifying details. The disclaimer makes certain that both you and I realize this isn't an offer, just a conversation. You might get into trouble if you routinely engaged in securities transactions via email with such a disclaimer. But if you handle all actual trades with a legalistic form containing no disclaimer, and informal conversations in email with a disclaimer, the disclaimer is likely to hold up in court.

gtani 15y ago

http://www.docstoc.com/documents/legal/ http://www.docstoc.com/documents/legal/ http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/startup/index.asp http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/... http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/startup/forms_corporate_formation.asp http://www.orrick.com/practices/corporate/emergingCompanies/... http://www.businessinsider.com/legal-documents-for-your-startup-2009-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/legal-documents-for-your-star...

woodall 15y ago

I know you are not offering legal advice, which IMO is good, but has the language in any of these documents been looked over by a profession/practicing lawyer? Other than that, these are great; I'll be using the Privacy Policy and NDA.

x03 15y ago
We feel all the documents on PearWords are solid, concise and fair to both parties. That said, we've not had these certified by a practicing lawyer simply because even if we do most people would still rather have a lawyer they know and trust do it for them before signing a contract, especially considering the variety of territories that PearWord's audience is located. It should be a fair bit cheaper to have a lawyer look over and change where appropriate any details than have them write an original document for you. PearWords strongly advise that any person have a lawyer vet and modify where necessary any legal documents before signing them, no matter the situation. Thanks for your comment! :)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - x03 15y ago
    We're seriously not even trying to be web2.0 (have you seen our site?), we just liked the name and pretty much everyone we've talked to agrees on that. We appreciate your feedback though! Thanks a lot for taking the time to let us know your thoughts. :)
  - YooLi 15y ago
    Out of curiosity, is there something special about "p" words that you base your suggestions on?
- kovar 15y ago
  So what is the downside to you vetting these documents via a lawyer first? Ensuring that the documents are even a little bit better will save your users collectively a lot of legal fees.

jamiecurle 15y ago

The privacy policy states PearWords does not... Place "cookies" (small text files) on your system for any reason. I would beg to differ, it may be Google Analytics dropping the cookies on pearwords' behalf, but they're still there. (http://d.pr/D3oy http://d.pr/D3oy)

scott_s 15y ago
Go ahead and use full URLs. HN will shorten its display if it's too long, and we prefer to see where we're going.
- ojilles 15y ago
  I guess this is a bit of special case as the service this person is using only has these short URLs :-)
  - jamiecurle 15y ago
    Yes, I should have explicitly stated it was linking to a screenshot on droplr. Apologies.

blhack 15y ago

This is excellent, thank you to whoever is putting it together.

arnorhs 15y ago
I second that. On a side note - It's very strange that there's no email address, no name of the person/persons behind this, no twitter account etc. Just the contact form. I mean, I'd like to follow whoever did this on twitter.
- x03 15y ago
  Thanks! :) I'm working on getting us a "Team" page to showcase all our talent with pictures, Twitter links, etc...