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How successful has it been to switch to Bitcoin? I hear mixed things about it and wonder how many actually use this currency.

ur-whale 6y ago
Bitcoin isn't necessarily well aligned to what people usually think of as a "currency". It's an entirely new beast in the financial instrument space. It does bear some characteristics of traditional currencies, but not all of them. Specifically, as it works today, and until Lightning gets some traction, BTC isn't very convenient for small day to day transactions like buying a cup of coffee. On the flipside, it does have attributes that traditional currencies strictly do not have. For cases such as the OP, there is no other financial instrument on the planet that will cut it (other than things like Monero / ZCash / MimbleWimble). Besides being antifragile and censorship resistant, there is also a very strong case to be made for Bitcoin in the 'preservation of wealth' niche (if you are strongly insensitive to short-term volatility, and capable of playing on a 5 year time horizon, that is). [EDIT]: To answer your question more precisely, Bitcoin has most definitely been a success story for sites like sci-hub, Wikileak and generally speaking, people who try to speak truth to power.
- LeoPanthera 6y ago
  There are forks of Bitcoin that solve (most of) these problems and make it more usable as an actual currency, rather than a gold-like store of value. "Bitcoin Cash" is the most famous, there are others. Frankly the failure of "original" Bitcoin to adapt to use as a currency seems to me to be a total failure of vision.
  - ahnick 6y ago
    My understanding of Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV is that they have just increased the blocksize the clients can handle. Is there something more to them than that?
    - fsckboy 6y ago
      there's also sidechains, segwit, and lightning network which shrink and consolidate transactions to increase the number of them that can fit in a block
    - SnowProblem 6y ago
      Yes. It's really worth dwelling on the long-term implications of terabyte+ sized blocks and fees of a thousand of a cent. This is where BSV is heading and everything changes at that scale. New use cases are unlocked. Old architectures need to be rethought. It's the most interesting technology I've encountered in a long time and it's a gem of entrepreneurship opportunity for those that can stomach swimming upstream.
    - zhoujianfu 6y ago
      Not really, but the result is essentially no fees. And thanks to Moore’s Law there’s no trade-off for it. Bitcoin (Core) is insane for having high fees.
  - octocop 6y ago
    With that logic the wright brothers made a shitty airplane. Bitcoin will exist forever, it will be like the Egyptian pyramids for our ancestors.
  - ur-whale 6y ago
    > seems to me to be a total failure of vision. First, the market seems to strongly disagree with you [1] Second, what seems to me a total failure of vision is trying to shoehorn something as new and disruptive as Bitcoin in the old and worn out yoke of currencies as they used to exist. There's paypal for that. [1] https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/BCHBTC/?exchange=COINBASE https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/BCHBTC/?exchange=COINBAS... (choose the 5 yr. view)
- mirimir 6y ago
  > To answer your question more precisely, Bitcoin has most definitely been a success story for sites like sci-hub, Wikileak and generally speaking, people who try to speak truth to power. Also for VPN providers, and their customers. And generally for people who want to buy stuff and lease online services ~anonymously. If one mixes well enough, that is.
  - DEADBEEFC0FFEE 6y ago
    It's not that easy to be anonymous with Bitcoin. Eventually you have to pay for Bitcoin, and that going to involve cash or trust, neither is simple.
    - lallysingh 6y ago
      Bounce through monero first.
      - RandomBacon 6y ago
        Might as well just stay in Monero. If you have to pay someplace that doesn't use Monero, just use XMR.to to pay (converts Monero to Bitcoin).
    - mirimir 6y ago
      Mirimir earns his Bitcoin, so there's no cash involved. But no matter how you get the Bitcoin, you can get whatever degree of anonymity you want, by mixing it many times. You mix via Tor and nested VPN chains, with a different Whonix VM and mixing service for each mix.
    - bitcointruther 6y ago
      you can buy bitcoin KYC free on bisq.network (but there is a premium). Very low risk of loss of funds. You can even use zelle which is supported by most banks. From there, send your coins through a samouari whirlpool https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool Then send them wherever you like. There is still some counterparty risk (what if you're buying coins from the CIA, or whatever), but it's almost minimal. Buying coins from a Bitcoin ATM is even easier, if there's one near you.
jpkoning 6y ago
As the article points out, Sci-Hub relies on bitcoin for international donations but the majority of its donations come via Yandex.Money, a Russian version of PayPal. I guess that means that most of its donations come from Russians and other CIS nationals with access to Yandex.Money.
- mudlus 6y ago
  Some things that are good for Russia, or terrorists, are good for everyone. One of those is free and open scientific research. Bitcoin was designed for just this kind of purpose.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Why are "Russia" and "terrorists" mentioned in the same breath?
    - catalogia 6y ago
      I read that as wry.
    - lecarore 6y ago
      I think I understand the meaning of the comment (some things that are good for terrorists, like an untraceable currency or messaging app) are good for everyone. Then to be fair Russia has a very relaxed view on copyright (just having a look at VK or yandex music.. it's just full of pirated Western content) and Russian activists are often the first adopters of privacy apps. Ну да, он это не так хорошо сказал.
      - metrokoi 6y ago
        It's interesting that Russia, which is seen as semi- or outright Fascist by many Americans, is much more free than the U.S. is. At least in terms of information freedom and surveillance. The further removed an individual is from the seat of world power, the less necessary it is for every aspect of their lives to be controlled.
retube 6y ago
"currency"
sdinsn 6y ago
> wonder how many actually use this currency. 100% of cyber criminals use Bitcoin, that's a lot of people!
- foobar_ 6y ago
  100% criminals also use cash. The real problem is 0.0001% can use Bitcoin in any real sense of cash.
- catsdanxe 6y ago
  Criminals prefer monero or another privacy coin.
  - loeg 6y ago
    As far as I can tell, criminals prefer to get paid. Bitcoin is accessible to customers.
    - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
      Customers don't want to put themselves at risk either. Most illegal activity is rapidly switching to monero as people learn that Bitcoin is easily traceable unless people take confusing and expensive countermeasures. It's not difficult to swap between different cryptocurrencies and there are major exchanges in almost all countries to directly get monero anyway
      - chensformers 6y ago
        So shouldn't Monero be more popular?
        ajkdhcb2 6y ago
        Barely anyone understands this technology well, and so they listen to celebrity Bitcoiners that have a vested interest. It's also difficult to find the one good alternative project among is a sea of well-funded scams. Marketing is important. Real usage is also a niche activity compared to speculation at this stage
Geee 6y ago
Coinbase has 30M+ users. Extrapolating from that I'd say roughly 100M people use Bitcoin to some extent, and it's growing pretty rapidly (20% growth on /r/bitcoin subscribers this year). Using means storing or transferring value in Bitcoin.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 6y ago
Transaction fees are a real issue with Bitcoin. Most of the time, they are suitable for standard payment amounts, but they can spike to quite high levels that make only large amounts worth transacting. This is due to network capacity limitations. Furthermore, anyone that does not wish to hold BTC - understandable due to its significant volatility - must convert it again into the preferred currency. Fees = friction, and there's enough friction now that people will only use it when it provides some significant utility.
uoylj 6y ago
You can check it yourself: https://sci-hub.st/support https://sci-hub.st/support https://blockstream.info/address/12PCbUDS4ho7vgSccmixKTHmq9qL2mdSns https://blockstream.info/address/12PCbUDS4ho7vgSccmixKTHmq9q...

ur-whale 6y ago

Bitcoin isn't necessarily well aligned to what people usually think of as a "currency". It's an entirely new beast in the financial instrument space. It does bear some characteristics of traditional currencies, but not all of them. Specifically, as it works today, and until Lightning gets some traction, BTC isn't very convenient for small day to day transactions like buying a cup of coffee. On the flipside, it does have attributes that traditional currencies strictly do not have. For cases such as the OP, there is no other financial instrument on the planet that will cut it (other than things like Monero / ZCash / MimbleWimble). Besides being antifragile and censorship resistant, there is also a very strong case to be made for Bitcoin in the 'preservation of wealth' niche (if you are strongly insensitive to short-term volatility, and capable of playing on a 5 year time horizon, that is). [EDIT]: To answer your question more precisely, Bitcoin has most definitely been a success story for sites like sci-hub, Wikileak and generally speaking, people who try to speak truth to power.

LeoPanthera 6y ago
There are forks of Bitcoin that solve (most of) these problems and make it more usable as an actual currency, rather than a gold-like store of value. "Bitcoin Cash" is the most famous, there are others. Frankly the failure of "original" Bitcoin to adapt to use as a currency seems to me to be a total failure of vision.
- ahnick 6y ago
  My understanding of Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV is that they have just increased the blocksize the clients can handle. Is there something more to them than that?
  - fsckboy 6y ago
    there's also sidechains, segwit, and lightning network which shrink and consolidate transactions to increase the number of them that can fit in a block
  - SnowProblem 6y ago
    Yes. It's really worth dwelling on the long-term implications of terabyte+ sized blocks and fees of a thousand of a cent. This is where BSV is heading and everything changes at that scale. New use cases are unlocked. Old architectures need to be rethought. It's the most interesting technology I've encountered in a long time and it's a gem of entrepreneurship opportunity for those that can stomach swimming upstream.
  - zhoujianfu 6y ago
    Not really, but the result is essentially no fees. And thanks to Moore’s Law there’s no trade-off for it. Bitcoin (Core) is insane for having high fees.
- octocop 6y ago
  With that logic the wright brothers made a shitty airplane. Bitcoin will exist forever, it will be like the Egyptian pyramids for our ancestors.
- ur-whale 6y ago
  > seems to me to be a total failure of vision. First, the market seems to strongly disagree with you [1] Second, what seems to me a total failure of vision is trying to shoehorn something as new and disruptive as Bitcoin in the old and worn out yoke of currencies as they used to exist. There's paypal for that. [1] https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/BCHBTC/?exchange=COINBASE https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/BCHBTC/?exchange=COINBAS... (choose the 5 yr. view)
mirimir 6y ago
> To answer your question more precisely, Bitcoin has most definitely been a success story for sites like sci-hub, Wikileak and generally speaking, people who try to speak truth to power. Also for VPN providers, and their customers. And generally for people who want to buy stuff and lease online services ~anonymously. If one mixes well enough, that is.
- DEADBEEFC0FFEE 6y ago
  It's not that easy to be anonymous with Bitcoin. Eventually you have to pay for Bitcoin, and that going to involve cash or trust, neither is simple.
  - lallysingh 6y ago
    Bounce through monero first.
    - RandomBacon 6y ago
      Might as well just stay in Monero. If you have to pay someplace that doesn't use Monero, just use XMR.to to pay (converts Monero to Bitcoin).
  - mirimir 6y ago
    Mirimir earns his Bitcoin, so there's no cash involved. But no matter how you get the Bitcoin, you can get whatever degree of anonymity you want, by mixing it many times. You mix via Tor and nested VPN chains, with a different Whonix VM and mixing service for each mix.
  - bitcointruther 6y ago
    you can buy bitcoin KYC free on bisq.network (but there is a premium). Very low risk of loss of funds. You can even use zelle which is supported by most banks. From there, send your coins through a samouari whirlpool https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool Then send them wherever you like. There is still some counterparty risk (what if you're buying coins from the CIA, or whatever), but it's almost minimal. Buying coins from a Bitcoin ATM is even easier, if there's one near you.

jpkoning 6y ago

As the article points out, Sci-Hub relies on bitcoin for international donations but the majority of its donations come via Yandex.Money, a Russian version of PayPal. I guess that means that most of its donations come from Russians and other CIS nationals with access to Yandex.Money.

mudlus 6y ago
Some things that are good for Russia, or terrorists, are good for everyone. One of those is free and open scientific research. Bitcoin was designed for just this kind of purpose.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  Why are "Russia" and "terrorists" mentioned in the same breath?
  - catalogia 6y ago
    I read that as wry.
  - lecarore 6y ago
    I think I understand the meaning of the comment (some things that are good for terrorists, like an untraceable currency or messaging app) are good for everyone. Then to be fair Russia has a very relaxed view on copyright (just having a look at VK or yandex music.. it's just full of pirated Western content) and Russian activists are often the first adopters of privacy apps. Ну да, он это не так хорошо сказал.
    - metrokoi 6y ago
      It's interesting that Russia, which is seen as semi- or outright Fascist by many Americans, is much more free than the U.S. is. At least in terms of information freedom and surveillance. The further removed an individual is from the seat of world power, the less necessary it is for every aspect of their lives to be controlled.

retube 6y ago

"currency"

sdinsn 6y ago

> wonder how many actually use this currency. 100% of cyber criminals use Bitcoin, that's a lot of people!

foobar_ 6y ago
100% criminals also use cash. The real problem is 0.0001% can use Bitcoin in any real sense of cash.
catsdanxe 6y ago
Criminals prefer monero or another privacy coin.
- loeg 6y ago
  As far as I can tell, criminals prefer to get paid. Bitcoin is accessible to customers.
  - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
    Customers don't want to put themselves at risk either. Most illegal activity is rapidly switching to monero as people learn that Bitcoin is easily traceable unless people take confusing and expensive countermeasures. It's not difficult to swap between different cryptocurrencies and there are major exchanges in almost all countries to directly get monero anyway
    - chensformers 6y ago
      So shouldn't Monero be more popular?
      - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
        Barely anyone understands this technology well, and so they listen to celebrity Bitcoiners that have a vested interest. It's also difficult to find the one good alternative project among is a sea of well-funded scams. Marketing is important. Real usage is also a niche activity compared to speculation at this stage

Geee 6y ago

Coinbase has 30M+ users. Extrapolating from that I'd say roughly 100M people use Bitcoin to some extent, and it's growing pretty rapidly (20% growth on /r/bitcoin subscribers this year). Using means storing or transferring value in Bitcoin.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 6y ago

Transaction fees are a real issue with Bitcoin. Most of the time, they are suitable for standard payment amounts, but they can spike to quite high levels that make only large amounts worth transacting. This is due to network capacity limitations. Furthermore, anyone that does not wish to hold BTC - understandable due to its significant volatility - must convert it again into the preferred currency. Fees = friction, and there's enough friction now that people will only use it when it provides some significant utility.

uoylj 6y ago

You can check it yourself: https://sci-hub.st/support https://sci-hub.st/support https://blockstream.info/address/12PCbUDS4ho7vgSccmixKTHmq9qL2mdSns https://blockstream.info/address/12PCbUDS4ho7vgSccmixKTHmq9q...