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Tonight I witnessed a young girl get knocked out cold by a tear gas canister shot into her face from about a 40 ft. range. She was holding her hands up. There

Tonight I witnessed a young girl get knocked out cold by a tear gas canister shot into her face from about a 40 ft. range. She was holding her hands up. There was nothing but peaceful protesters standing around, not blocking traffic. No vandalism anywhere in sight. This was in Louisville, KY. The police fired rubber bullets at the group of people carrying her away to a place on the other side of the line of humvees blocking the street to where the ambulance could reach her. Everything most middle-income Americans think about our police forces is wrong.

scarface74 6y ago
Middle America knows that police target minorities - they just don’t care.
- seaknoll 6y ago
  I think that's an extremely unhelpful oversimplification. There isn't some subset of humans (as a high enough percentage of the population to be considered) that's simply missing empathy. At least in their own minds they are good people, so that's where they have to be met. So IMO we need to start by assuming that they DO care, but they have different assumptions about the difficulty and danger of police work. They live in safe communities and go into cities and see poverty and homelessness, mental illness on the streets, read about the gun crime, and think that it's scary. They're not entirely wrong. Where they ARE wrong is in failing to realize how often police officers are the ones to create violent situations. Why did they use force over a counterfeit bill? Why would they bust into someone's apartment in the middle of the night over a drug charge? Unless there is an in-the-moment violent situation going on, they should not be entitled to use force. They should be required to wait, plan, and deescalate. The last thing they should be allowed to do is play out their masturbatory fantasy on the public. If that makes police work more boring, so be it.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  it may seem that way, but I suspect it is a bit more nuanced than that. I think most people understand, at least on some level, that the news is generally about outlier events. when every interaction you have with the police is polite or even helpful, it's tempting to think that these incidences of police brutality are just isolated events. if you live somewhere that you experience aggressive policing in your daily life, it might seem more like the stories that make the national news are merely the tip of the iceberg. I think it's unfortunate that the national discussion centers so much around these high-profile killings. it obscures some of the more subtle impositions on marginalized communities and leaves gaps for motivated reasoning to reach a less uncomfortable conclusion.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    While death at the hands of police might be infrequent, you can find plenty of longitudinal studies showing that “pro-active policing” like stop and frisk and pulling people over disproportionately is aimed at Black people. Not to mention that statistically, Blacks are punished far more harshly than Whites. This isn’t new, it’s just being filmed more often. Rappers like NWA and Tupac have been speaking out against police brutality since the 90s. All the while White people preach to a Black people about how we “should act” not to the be beaten and shot by the police.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dessant 6y ago
You don't even need to leave your porch to get shot. Police and National Guard are patrolling neighborhoods and shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property in Minneapolis. In one case they yelled "Light 'em up!" before starting to shoot [1] with ammunition that could blind people. It's legal to be outside your house during the curfew in Minneapolis [2]. > Can I be outside my house (on my property) after 8 p.m. and before 6 a.m.? > Yes. [1] https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225 https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225 [2] https://dps.mn.gov/macc/Pages/faq.aspx https://dps.mn.gov/macc/Pages/faq.aspx
- jagged-chisel 6y ago
  > shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property Even if it weren't legal to be outside on your own property from 8p-6a, this isn't proper enforcement of the law.
  - phalangion 6y ago
    That's because the National Guard isn't law enforcement.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - pmorici 6y ago
      That video wasn't of the national guard it was clearly police of some kind based on the uniforms. Also typically the national guard units they activate for stuff like this are often the MP units so they would be trained on law enforcement specific things. Either way it doesn't excuse or justify that blatant misconduct in the video.
      - griffinkelly 6y ago
        I'm a member of the national guard and I, along with many of my friends, did not sign up to be police officers. That said, in Minnesota they called up every unit it seems. I'd understand civilians to easily confuse police with the military particularly after seeing a Humvee drive by, but if you take a closer look its easy to distinguish. Also note, we take orders directly from the governor of the state, not the police, nor the president of the US unless activated.
roenxi 6y ago
> Everything most middle-income Americans think about our police forces is wrong. That statement is a bit vague, everyone is going to substitute their own interpretation in. The police don't target racial minorities because they are racist. People who want power over others sign up for policing - and then go after groups who have the least ability to fight back. The middle income might know the symptoms, but they are missing the cause. The cause is that if a fellow wants to hurl someone else to the ground, kick them and keep them down without a fair fight then their best chance as getting to that situation is to sign on to the police. This is an inescapable structural pressure that needs constant attention.
- michaelt 6y ago
  > inescapable structural pressure I agree it's a severe problem, but I don't agree it's inescapable. It's a job that attracts brutal people only because it's a job that lets them get away with brutality. If the cycle of allowing brutality and attracting brutes could be broken, there's a good chance it'd stay broken. The police fraternity knows all about getting other cops to fall into line - just look at the "blue wall of silence" and police union "get out of jail free" cards. That same pressure couldn't be applied against brutality.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    I wonder if part of why it seems particularly bad (for a developed country) in the US is the local police force system. In countries with national police forces, misconduct investigations are often conducted by specialist staff who may be from the other side of the country, who likely aren't really in the same org chart, and so on. It seems intuitively less likely to produce a fair result if the people investigating work in the same place and under the same org structure as the people being investigated.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      The reason why it’s particularly bad in the US is that we’ve got insanely high levels of violent and organized crime. Baltimore, where I used to live, the homicide rate per 100,000 people is 30-50 times higher than in say Berlin, Madrid, London, etc. It’s almost double the rate of Bogota. That creates a police force that treats policing like its war, and public systems that give wide latitude to errors or misconduct, just as we would give soldiers in war.
rayiner 6y ago
> Everything most middle-income Americans think about our police forces is wrong After moving to the suburbs, I realized that most Americans base their opinions on their own police forces. The last time I got pulled over in the exurbs where I live, the officer basically apologized for pulling me over. Things are very different an hour away from here in DC.
- Shared404 6y ago
  This exactly. I have yet to hear any complaints about police in my town, but the next town over has one of the most corrupt police departments that I've ever heard of.

scarface74 6y ago

Middle America knows that police target minorities - they just don’t care.

seaknoll 6y ago
I think that's an extremely unhelpful oversimplification. There isn't some subset of humans (as a high enough percentage of the population to be considered) that's simply missing empathy. At least in their own minds they are good people, so that's where they have to be met. So IMO we need to start by assuming that they DO care, but they have different assumptions about the difficulty and danger of police work. They live in safe communities and go into cities and see poverty and homelessness, mental illness on the streets, read about the gun crime, and think that it's scary. They're not entirely wrong. Where they ARE wrong is in failing to realize how often police officers are the ones to create violent situations. Why did they use force over a counterfeit bill? Why would they bust into someone's apartment in the middle of the night over a drug charge? Unless there is an in-the-moment violent situation going on, they should not be entitled to use force. They should be required to wait, plan, and deescalate. The last thing they should be allowed to do is play out their masturbatory fantasy on the public. If that makes police work more boring, so be it.
leetcrew 6y ago
it may seem that way, but I suspect it is a bit more nuanced than that. I think most people understand, at least on some level, that the news is generally about outlier events. when every interaction you have with the police is polite or even helpful, it's tempting to think that these incidences of police brutality are just isolated events. if you live somewhere that you experience aggressive policing in your daily life, it might seem more like the stories that make the national news are merely the tip of the iceberg. I think it's unfortunate that the national discussion centers so much around these high-profile killings. it obscures some of the more subtle impositions on marginalized communities and leaves gaps for motivated reasoning to reach a less uncomfortable conclusion.
- scarface74 6y ago
  While death at the hands of police might be infrequent, you can find plenty of longitudinal studies showing that “pro-active policing” like stop and frisk and pulling people over disproportionately is aimed at Black people. Not to mention that statistically, Blacks are punished far more harshly than Whites. This isn’t new, it’s just being filmed more often. Rappers like NWA and Tupac have been speaking out against police brutality since the 90s. All the while White people preach to a Black people about how we “should act” not to the be beaten and shot by the police.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dessant 6y ago

You don't even need to leave your porch to get shot. Police and National Guard are patrolling neighborhoods and shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property in Minneapolis. In one case they yelled "Light 'em up!" before starting to shoot [1] with ammunition that could blind people. It's legal to be outside your house during the curfew in Minneapolis [2]. > Can I be outside my house (on my property) after 8 p.m. and before 6 a.m.? > Yes. [1] https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225 https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225 [2] https://dps.mn.gov/macc/Pages/faq.aspx https://dps.mn.gov/macc/Pages/faq.aspx

jagged-chisel 6y ago
> shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property Even if it weren't legal to be outside on your own property from 8p-6a, this isn't proper enforcement of the law.
- phalangion 6y ago
  That's because the National Guard isn't law enforcement.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - pmorici 6y ago
    That video wasn't of the national guard it was clearly police of some kind based on the uniforms. Also typically the national guard units they activate for stuff like this are often the MP units so they would be trained on law enforcement specific things. Either way it doesn't excuse or justify that blatant misconduct in the video.
    - griffinkelly 6y ago
      I'm a member of the national guard and I, along with many of my friends, did not sign up to be police officers. That said, in Minnesota they called up every unit it seems. I'd understand civilians to easily confuse police with the military particularly after seeing a Humvee drive by, but if you take a closer look its easy to distinguish. Also note, we take orders directly from the governor of the state, not the police, nor the president of the US unless activated.

roenxi 6y ago

> Everything most middle-income Americans think about our police forces is wrong. That statement is a bit vague, everyone is going to substitute their own interpretation in. The police don't target racial minorities because they are racist. People who want power over others sign up for policing - and then go after groups who have the least ability to fight back. The middle income might know the symptoms, but they are missing the cause. The cause is that if a fellow wants to hurl someone else to the ground, kick them and keep them down without a fair fight then their best chance as getting to that situation is to sign on to the police. This is an inescapable structural pressure that needs constant attention.

michaelt 6y ago
> inescapable structural pressure I agree it's a severe problem, but I don't agree it's inescapable. It's a job that attracts brutal people only because it's a job that lets them get away with brutality. If the cycle of allowing brutality and attracting brutes could be broken, there's a good chance it'd stay broken. The police fraternity knows all about getting other cops to fall into line - just look at the "blue wall of silence" and police union "get out of jail free" cards. That same pressure couldn't be applied against brutality.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rsynnott 6y ago
  I wonder if part of why it seems particularly bad (for a developed country) in the US is the local police force system. In countries with national police forces, misconduct investigations are often conducted by specialist staff who may be from the other side of the country, who likely aren't really in the same org chart, and so on. It seems intuitively less likely to produce a fair result if the people investigating work in the same place and under the same org structure as the people being investigated.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    The reason why it’s particularly bad in the US is that we’ve got insanely high levels of violent and organized crime. Baltimore, where I used to live, the homicide rate per 100,000 people is 30-50 times higher than in say Berlin, Madrid, London, etc. It’s almost double the rate of Bogota. That creates a police force that treats policing like its war, and public systems that give wide latitude to errors or misconduct, just as we would give soldiers in war.

rayiner 6y ago

> Everything most middle-income Americans think about our police forces is wrong After moving to the suburbs, I realized that most Americans base their opinions on their own police forces. The last time I got pulled over in the exurbs where I live, the officer basically apologized for pulling me over. Things are very different an hour away from here in DC.

Shared404 6y ago
This exactly. I have yet to hear any complaints about police in my town, but the next town over has one of the most corrupt police departments that I've ever heard of.