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Romans... Slavers who washed their mouths and clothes with urine, and shat on the streets. They really weren't into this "treating people humanely" thing. Most

Romans... Slavers who washed their mouths and clothes with urine, and shat on the streets. They really weren't into this "treating people humanely" thing. Most of their lives were quite brutal: https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2016/05/arthritis-brought-ancient-romans-to.html?m=1 https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2016/05/arthriti... > The average ancient Roman worker was riddled with arthritis, suffered broken bones and was dead by 30 thanks to a diet of rotting grains and a lifetime of hard labour, a new study has found

oh_sigh 7y ago
What does any of this have to do with the article? And I'm not positive, but maybe the average lifespan in Rome was 30(considering all the newborn deaths), but I really doubt adult workers were keeling over at 30 on average.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- iguy 7y ago
  In the city of Rome, I think many adults did actually die young, in addition to infant mortality. And they were replaced by imports from the countryside. In fact I think no large city was self-sustaining, perhaps until London, c 1800? Having that many people in proximity simply wasn't healthy. For much the same reason, very few wars before WWI (perhaps none?) had more men killed by the enemy than by disease.
- kasey_junk 7y ago
  It doesn’t have to do with the article but the life expectancy of a Roman slave was shockingly low https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome#Demography https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome#Demo...
biztos 7y ago
I'm probably too squeamish to wash my mouth with it (did Romans really do that?) but washing clothes with publicly collected urine is generally considered to be a pretty impressive bit of urban engineering, not to mention very environmentally friendly. Wouldn't knock it till you've tried it.
- infecto 7y ago
  Too lazy to look it up but IIRC it helped kill bacteria in the mouth.
  - pge 7y ago
    I think it was to whiten teeth just as it was used to whiten clothes
- AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
  > (did Romans really do that?) There's a Catullus poem that suggested they did, but clearly it wasn't all Romans, and some of the others even derided them for it. http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/e39.htm http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/e39.htm
  - pmarreck 7y ago
    Love the long-form put-down style here
- hisnameismanuel 7y ago
  Washing clothes with publicly collected urine was done as recently as the 1800s in many parts of colonial pre-federation Australia.
- bernawil 7y ago
  Urine is recorded to being used for whitening teeth since at least ancient Egypt. I always thought they used something like a swab for it though, but you can be sure someone out there had the idea to use it as mouthwash lol.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  I think it would make more sense to promote peeing on trees as an environmental thing. (I briefly tried to figure out how to promote that, but I know nothing about starting campaigns of that sort. shrug)
EL_Loco 7y ago
> They really weren't into this "treating people humanely" thing. As opposed to all the other ancient empires who were.
- LessDmesg 7y ago
  Not all, but Romans do stand out. While Greeks were discussing philosophy and building mechanisms like Antikythera, Romans were slaves to the rich, building roads and aqueducts with arthritis and broken bones, and rotten grain for food.
  - smogcutter 7y ago
    Oh come on, as if “the Greeks” were sitting around the agora all day chatting with Socrates. That would sure be news to a Spartan helot.
    - watwut 7y ago
      Sparta was enemy of city Socrates lived in. And rich peoples livestyle and philosophy was possible only due to having those lower classes. Which matters.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - manfredo 7y ago
    "The Greeks" were a diverse group of peoples spanning three continents over the course of most of a millennium with varied cultures and social structures. Many of them, including some of the most iconic Greek societies like Athens and Sparta, were comprised of 40-60% slaves with treatment on par with that of Roman slaves or worse (e.g. Helots in Sparta).
  - quickthrowman 7y ago
    Alexander the Great was the greatest general in ancient history (Hannibal is up there though), and also Greek. Greeks wielded power just like the Romans, there were a few hundred years of Greek hegemony in the eastern Mediterranean after Alexander died. What the heck do you have against the Roman people? Making value judgements about long dead ancient cultures is really strange, they saw the world much different than us.
quickthrowman 7y ago
Yes, human culture was different in the past. Judging an ancient culture by our standards doesn’t make for a strong argument, their way of looking at the world would be completely alien to us. The ancient Assyrian empire would allegedly make corpse piles and skull pyramids after putting entires towns to the sword, humans are and always have been cruel to each other.

oh_sigh 7y ago

What does any of this have to do with the article? And I'm not positive, but maybe the average lifespan in Rome was 30(considering all the newborn deaths), but I really doubt adult workers were keeling over at 30 on average.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
iguy 7y ago
In the city of Rome, I think many adults did actually die young, in addition to infant mortality. And they were replaced by imports from the countryside. In fact I think no large city was self-sustaining, perhaps until London, c 1800? Having that many people in proximity simply wasn't healthy. For much the same reason, very few wars before WWI (perhaps none?) had more men killed by the enemy than by disease.
kasey_junk 7y ago
It doesn’t have to do with the article but the life expectancy of a Roman slave was shockingly low https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome#Demography https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome#Demo...

biztos 7y ago

I'm probably too squeamish to wash my mouth with it (did Romans really do that?) but washing clothes with publicly collected urine is generally considered to be a pretty impressive bit of urban engineering, not to mention very environmentally friendly. Wouldn't knock it till you've tried it.

infecto 7y ago
Too lazy to look it up but IIRC it helped kill bacteria in the mouth.
- pge 7y ago
  I think it was to whiten teeth just as it was used to whiten clothes
AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
> (did Romans really do that?) There's a Catullus poem that suggested they did, but clearly it wasn't all Romans, and some of the others even derided them for it. http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/e39.htm http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/e39.htm
- pmarreck 7y ago
  Love the long-form put-down style here
hisnameismanuel 7y ago
Washing clothes with publicly collected urine was done as recently as the 1800s in many parts of colonial pre-federation Australia.
bernawil 7y ago
Urine is recorded to being used for whitening teeth since at least ancient Egypt. I always thought they used something like a swab for it though, but you can be sure someone out there had the idea to use it as mouthwash lol.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
I think it would make more sense to promote peeing on trees as an environmental thing. (I briefly tried to figure out how to promote that, but I know nothing about starting campaigns of that sort. shrug)

EL_Loco 7y ago

> They really weren't into this "treating people humanely" thing. As opposed to all the other ancient empires who were.

LessDmesg 7y ago
Not all, but Romans do stand out. While Greeks were discussing philosophy and building mechanisms like Antikythera, Romans were slaves to the rich, building roads and aqueducts with arthritis and broken bones, and rotten grain for food.
- smogcutter 7y ago
  Oh come on, as if “the Greeks” were sitting around the agora all day chatting with Socrates. That would sure be news to a Spartan helot.
  - watwut 7y ago
    Sparta was enemy of city Socrates lived in. And rich peoples livestyle and philosophy was possible only due to having those lower classes. Which matters.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- manfredo 7y ago
  "The Greeks" were a diverse group of peoples spanning three continents over the course of most of a millennium with varied cultures and social structures. Many of them, including some of the most iconic Greek societies like Athens and Sparta, were comprised of 40-60% slaves with treatment on par with that of Roman slaves or worse (e.g. Helots in Sparta).
- quickthrowman 7y ago
  Alexander the Great was the greatest general in ancient history (Hannibal is up there though), and also Greek. Greeks wielded power just like the Romans, there were a few hundred years of Greek hegemony in the eastern Mediterranean after Alexander died. What the heck do you have against the Roman people? Making value judgements about long dead ancient cultures is really strange, they saw the world much different than us.

quickthrowman 7y ago

Yes, human culture was different in the past. Judging an ancient culture by our standards doesn’t make for a strong argument, their way of looking at the world would be completely alien to us. The ancient Assyrian empire would allegedly make corpse piles and skull pyramids after putting entires towns to the sword, humans are and always have been cruel to each other.