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America's best-selling car in 2018 is the F150 series! American's are going crazy for SUVs and pickups, but the F150 has been the best-selling vehicle for deca

America's best-selling car in 2018 is the F150 series! American's are going crazy for SUVs and pickups, but the F150 has been the best-selling vehicle for decades. Pickups have outsold passenger vehicles for a long time.

Animats 7y ago
Coming in 2021, the electric Ford F-150.[1] That should be a great truck. Empty pickups have poor weight distribution; not enough weight in back. With a giant battery pack under the pickup bed, traction is better. [1] https://youtu.be/bXFHgoon7lg https://youtu.be/bXFHgoon7lg
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  > Empty pickups have poor weight distribution; not enough weight in back. With a giant battery pack under the pickup bed, traction is better. The problem you're mentioning being solved by a battery pack could just as easily be solved by putting any random ballast in the back of the regular truck. I think electric will have other advantages (and disadvantages), but I doubt this is a big one for most people.
  - donkeyd 7y ago
    That ballast would then make the truck use even more fuel, which wouldn't make much sense.
    - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
      Sure, but it solves the problem of traction. The electric vehicle also reduces efficiency by adding weight to the vehicle - being electric doesn't change physics. And being able to remove weight is always preferable to not being able to remove weight.
      - jdietrich 7y ago
        >The electric vehicle also reduces efficiency by adding weight to the vehicle - being electric doesn't change physics. The battery adds weight, but that's more than outweighed by the tremendous efficiency of an electric drivetrain. The EV equivalent of a gas-guzzler (e.g. a Tesla Model X P90D) still achieves the equivalent of 90mpg.
        OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        I am not arguing that an ICE vehicle is more efficient than an electric vehicle - I am saying that adding weight reduces efficiency for both. I was not making a general comparison between the pros and cons of electric vehicles, I was pointing out that one person's comment about better traction for electric vehicles was incredibly disingenuous because ICE vehicles can get the same benefit by simply adding weight - and they can also remove that weight when they want to unlike the electric vehicle.
        cronix 7y ago
        Yes, but on the converse side, the weight adds extra safety, at least with the Model X. Since it's heavier and the center of gravity is lower, they tend to not roll over very easily. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/14/why-the-tesla-model-x-earned-a-perfect-rollover-safety-rating-1st-for-an-suv/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/14/why-the-tesla-model-x-e...
        OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        What I said: > I was not making a general comparison between the pros and cons of electric vehicles And you replied: > Yes, but on the converse side...[something that has nothing to do with traction] Am I unintentionally arguing that electric vehicles are bad? I get the impression people think I hate electric vehicles and are trying to convince me of their virtues, when I was simply pointing out what I thought was a logical flaw from another commenter.
        fspeech 7y ago
    - potta_coffee 7y ago
      The minimum required ballast probably wouldn't make any difference at all. We're talking about a V8 with tons of torque and horsepower.
      - cartoonworld 7y ago
        >We're talking about a V8 with tons of torque and horsepower. Take a look at the market. Lots of the trucks actually sold are dumpy underpowered RWD sixes or less, and the new motors are getting smaller, better, and more fuel efficient. Doesn't sound like the market wants a heavier boat to careen down the interstate in. You can charge a whole lot more for the industrially useful V8's (which are still dumpy IMO, their job is "Don't stop turning over.") and much better diesels anyhow. At least telling uncle charlie about the OEM underslung sandbags will get quite a chuckle at Thanksgiving dinner.
    - munificent 7y ago
      I put two sixty-pound buckets of gravel in the back corners of my pickup. That's a neglible difference in weight but a very noticeable difference in traction in cold wet weather.
  - kleton 7y ago
    In non-coastal America, most of the pickup trucks you see on the road are empty.
    - ben7799 7y ago
      That's true in coastal America too from what I can tell.
  - cartoonworld 7y ago
    Everyone throws some sandbags and rock salt in the bed, next to the shovel and tinfoil blanky. Sure gonna need it when you're stuck in the ditch :) I'd take computer managed digital torque delivery over feathering my old clutch plate, if you even still get to run one of those. The dual-clutch trans will need your other foot. Mushy delivery (Sounds like an f150 to me) and out of the mud aren't really compatible.
    - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
      > Everyone throws some sandbags and rock salt in the bed, next to the shovel and tinfoil blanky. Sure gonna need it when you're stuck in the ditch :) At least you can remove that weight when you need to. I bet it's a lot easier to tow a 4,000 pound truck out of a ditch than a 6,000 pound truck.
      - cartoonworld 7y ago
        No it isn't, not at all. The tow operator is equipped for both, already. And if you're pulling with a 3k winch maybe you need to make stop at harbor freight. Anyhow, instead of faffing around with silly sandbags, a mid-engine truck is what you're dancing around. Closest thing I've heard of is the Isuzu ELF (NPR in my neck of the woods) which they've been producing since the 60's or so. The motor is kind of underneath the cab. Nobody wants what you're selling.
- asteli 7y ago
  Plus, no propshaft or exhaust to get hung up on things, and you can get the CoG lower, improving handling. Plus, a level of traction control that simply isn't possible with ICE. I'm excited.
  - nostrademons 7y ago
    Plus, electric motors have flat torque curves, while ICEs need to get up to a certain RPM before you start getting decent torque. That means you get maximum acceleration and hauling power from the get-go. https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-do-electric-vehicles-produce-instant-torque/ https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-do-electric-vehicles-pr... (This incidentally is part of why Tesla started with the Roadster - the flat torque curve of an electric motor can give some great acceleration numbers, which is pretty nifty when you're building a status-symbol sports car.)
    - mojomark 7y ago
      This!!! I've told everyone who'd listen for years that an electric motor is the better option for a pickup trucks due to the more appropriate matching of the torque curve to the hauling load demands. When my beloved '00 Ram 1500 died about 5 years ago I decided to hold out for an electric truck that I assumed would be coming to market. Looks like I may finally get my chance shortly. I honestly don't know if the cumulative environmental footprint is better, but I do know an electric motor will be superior.
      - war1025 7y ago
        Trains are electric motors powered by diesel generators. Seems like it should be an easy sell for people that whatever trains do is an effective way to handle heavy loads.
        steve19 7y ago
        Submarines too! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine#Diesel-electric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine#Diesel-electric
- galago 7y ago
  I used to own an old Ford Ranger, and in Winter I would have it loaded with bags of sand in the bed to improve traction on ice. I could have just as easily been hauling batteries everywhere.
  - mcbutterbunz 7y ago
    When I was 17, I crashed and totaled my '77 Ford pickup because I slid out on wet pavement. Everyone said I needed sand bags but I loved being able to peel out so easily. Live and learn.
    - cheez 7y ago
      Love fishtailing the Camaro.
      - slowhand09 7y ago
        Love fishtailing the Hellcat at 70mph.
        cheez 7y ago
        I did it first.
- dghughes 7y ago
  Lose half the battery capacity in cold weather. EVs are less efficient at highway speeds. Two things rural half ton trucks need. Add to that the loss of carrying capacity due to the battery weight. I'm not sure if motors and battery weigh a similar amount as a drivetrain and fuel, I hope so. If it's only city travel it's fine but that's not what a truck was made for. I'm all for electric vehicles and I hope the technology advances but people need to be realistic. It's like the customer service industry if all the comments are compliments how do you know what is wrong?
  - lutorm 7y ago
    EVs are less efficient at highway speeds Huh? Less efficient than what? There is no way it is less efficient than an ICE.
    - SwellJoe 7y ago
      Less efficient than the same vehicle at lower speeds, I assume. But, that's true of every vehicle...so, it's a weird argument.
  - SwellJoe 7y ago
    A vehicle that has a towing capacity in the tens of thousands of pounds can have a big battery bank, and so it could have longer range than a small sedan. Of course the weight of the battery itself reduces range, and carrying a load will reduce range, and bigger batteries increase cost, but I suspect the reason Ford is introducing an electric truck in 2021 (and Tesla has one coming, too) is because they've done the math and it's finally starting work out right for some category of their customer base. The truck market is downright scientific, and Ford is the leader in that market. They serve a lot of fleet customers and have huge amounts of data about how those fleets are used. They must have found a segment that will find electric vehicles cost-effective, otherwise they'd put it off another year or two or three. It's not the average truck buyer that's pushing them toward electric (there's a deep vein of stupid in that market that loves big, noisy, smelly, engines), but I'm confident they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. I believe Ford making an electric truck means there's a market for electric trucks, whatever their limitations, at the price they can deliver them.
- technofiend 7y ago
  I own an F150 I inherited from my grandfather. As much as I lust after Teslas I wouldn't trade it for an electric for one simple reason: my F150 is what I drive if I must drive at all when it floods. AFAIK you cannot and should not submerge the motors or the battery on an electric car. Still, that's an edge case.
  - plugger 7y ago
    Telsa model 3s act as boats during floods. Have a look at youtube, there are numerous videos of people stranded in their engine flooded car and a Tesla floats right by.
    - technofiend 7y ago
      And yet if I started a Tesla warranty climb with "So there I was, driving through several feet of water" I'm skeptical it would be approved. That was my point. Electrics are fantastic vehicles. I can't wait to own my first one, but they aren't yet built for every purpose. I don't think the Ford dealership would warrant me driving an F-150 through several feet of water either but fixing the issues that come from it are a known quantity. Not so much with an electric pickup.

Animats 7y ago

Coming in 2021, the electric Ford F-150.[1] That should be a great truck. Empty pickups have poor weight distribution; not enough weight in back. With a giant battery pack under the pickup bed, traction is better. [1] https://youtu.be/bXFHgoon7lg https://youtu.be/bXFHgoon7lg

OnlineGladiator 7y ago
> Empty pickups have poor weight distribution; not enough weight in back. With a giant battery pack under the pickup bed, traction is better. The problem you're mentioning being solved by a battery pack could just as easily be solved by putting any random ballast in the back of the regular truck. I think electric will have other advantages (and disadvantages), but I doubt this is a big one for most people.
- donkeyd 7y ago
  That ballast would then make the truck use even more fuel, which wouldn't make much sense.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    Sure, but it solves the problem of traction. The electric vehicle also reduces efficiency by adding weight to the vehicle - being electric doesn't change physics. And being able to remove weight is always preferable to not being able to remove weight.
    - jdietrich 7y ago
      >The electric vehicle also reduces efficiency by adding weight to the vehicle - being electric doesn't change physics. The battery adds weight, but that's more than outweighed by the tremendous efficiency of an electric drivetrain. The EV equivalent of a gas-guzzler (e.g. a Tesla Model X P90D) still achieves the equivalent of 90mpg.
      - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        I am not arguing that an ICE vehicle is more efficient than an electric vehicle - I am saying that adding weight reduces efficiency for both. I was not making a general comparison between the pros and cons of electric vehicles, I was pointing out that one person's comment about better traction for electric vehicles was incredibly disingenuous because ICE vehicles can get the same benefit by simply adding weight - and they can also remove that weight when they want to unlike the electric vehicle.
        cronix 7y ago
        Yes, but on the converse side, the weight adds extra safety, at least with the Model X. Since it's heavier and the center of gravity is lower, they tend to not roll over very easily. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/14/why-the-tesla-model-x-earned-a-perfect-rollover-safety-rating-1st-for-an-suv/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/14/why-the-tesla-model-x-e...
        OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        What I said: > I was not making a general comparison between the pros and cons of electric vehicles And you replied: > Yes, but on the converse side...[something that has nothing to do with traction] Am I unintentionally arguing that electric vehicles are bad? I get the impression people think I hate electric vehicles and are trying to convince me of their virtues, when I was simply pointing out what I thought was a logical flaw from another commenter.
        fspeech 7y ago
  - potta_coffee 7y ago
    The minimum required ballast probably wouldn't make any difference at all. We're talking about a V8 with tons of torque and horsepower.
    - cartoonworld 7y ago
      >We're talking about a V8 with tons of torque and horsepower. Take a look at the market. Lots of the trucks actually sold are dumpy underpowered RWD sixes or less, and the new motors are getting smaller, better, and more fuel efficient. Doesn't sound like the market wants a heavier boat to careen down the interstate in. You can charge a whole lot more for the industrially useful V8's (which are still dumpy IMO, their job is "Don't stop turning over.") and much better diesels anyhow. At least telling uncle charlie about the OEM underslung sandbags will get quite a chuckle at Thanksgiving dinner.
  - munificent 7y ago
    I put two sixty-pound buckets of gravel in the back corners of my pickup. That's a neglible difference in weight but a very noticeable difference in traction in cold wet weather.
- kleton 7y ago
  In non-coastal America, most of the pickup trucks you see on the road are empty.
  - ben7799 7y ago
    That's true in coastal America too from what I can tell.
- cartoonworld 7y ago
  Everyone throws some sandbags and rock salt in the bed, next to the shovel and tinfoil blanky. Sure gonna need it when you're stuck in the ditch :) I'd take computer managed digital torque delivery over feathering my old clutch plate, if you even still get to run one of those. The dual-clutch trans will need your other foot. Mushy delivery (Sounds like an f150 to me) and out of the mud aren't really compatible.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    > Everyone throws some sandbags and rock salt in the bed, next to the shovel and tinfoil blanky. Sure gonna need it when you're stuck in the ditch :) At least you can remove that weight when you need to. I bet it's a lot easier to tow a 4,000 pound truck out of a ditch than a 6,000 pound truck.
    - cartoonworld 7y ago
      No it isn't, not at all. The tow operator is equipped for both, already. And if you're pulling with a 3k winch maybe you need to make stop at harbor freight. Anyhow, instead of faffing around with silly sandbags, a mid-engine truck is what you're dancing around. Closest thing I've heard of is the Isuzu ELF (NPR in my neck of the woods) which they've been producing since the 60's or so. The motor is kind of underneath the cab. Nobody wants what you're selling.
asteli 7y ago
Plus, no propshaft or exhaust to get hung up on things, and you can get the CoG lower, improving handling. Plus, a level of traction control that simply isn't possible with ICE. I'm excited.
- nostrademons 7y ago
  Plus, electric motors have flat torque curves, while ICEs need to get up to a certain RPM before you start getting decent torque. That means you get maximum acceleration and hauling power from the get-go. https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-do-electric-vehicles-produce-instant-torque/ https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-do-electric-vehicles-pr... (This incidentally is part of why Tesla started with the Roadster - the flat torque curve of an electric motor can give some great acceleration numbers, which is pretty nifty when you're building a status-symbol sports car.)
  - mojomark 7y ago
    This!!! I've told everyone who'd listen for years that an electric motor is the better option for a pickup trucks due to the more appropriate matching of the torque curve to the hauling load demands. When my beloved '00 Ram 1500 died about 5 years ago I decided to hold out for an electric truck that I assumed would be coming to market. Looks like I may finally get my chance shortly. I honestly don't know if the cumulative environmental footprint is better, but I do know an electric motor will be superior.
    - war1025 7y ago
      Trains are electric motors powered by diesel generators. Seems like it should be an easy sell for people that whatever trains do is an effective way to handle heavy loads.
      - steve19 7y ago
        Submarines too! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine#Diesel-electric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine#Diesel-electric
galago 7y ago
I used to own an old Ford Ranger, and in Winter I would have it loaded with bags of sand in the bed to improve traction on ice. I could have just as easily been hauling batteries everywhere.
- mcbutterbunz 7y ago
  When I was 17, I crashed and totaled my '77 Ford pickup because I slid out on wet pavement. Everyone said I needed sand bags but I loved being able to peel out so easily. Live and learn.
  - cheez 7y ago
    Love fishtailing the Camaro.
    - slowhand09 7y ago
      Love fishtailing the Hellcat at 70mph.
      - cheez 7y ago
        I did it first.
dghughes 7y ago
Lose half the battery capacity in cold weather. EVs are less efficient at highway speeds. Two things rural half ton trucks need. Add to that the loss of carrying capacity due to the battery weight. I'm not sure if motors and battery weigh a similar amount as a drivetrain and fuel, I hope so. If it's only city travel it's fine but that's not what a truck was made for. I'm all for electric vehicles and I hope the technology advances but people need to be realistic. It's like the customer service industry if all the comments are compliments how do you know what is wrong?
- lutorm 7y ago
  EVs are less efficient at highway speeds Huh? Less efficient than what? There is no way it is less efficient than an ICE.
  - SwellJoe 7y ago
    Less efficient than the same vehicle at lower speeds, I assume. But, that's true of every vehicle...so, it's a weird argument.
- SwellJoe 7y ago
  A vehicle that has a towing capacity in the tens of thousands of pounds can have a big battery bank, and so it could have longer range than a small sedan. Of course the weight of the battery itself reduces range, and carrying a load will reduce range, and bigger batteries increase cost, but I suspect the reason Ford is introducing an electric truck in 2021 (and Tesla has one coming, too) is because they've done the math and it's finally starting work out right for some category of their customer base. The truck market is downright scientific, and Ford is the leader in that market. They serve a lot of fleet customers and have huge amounts of data about how those fleets are used. They must have found a segment that will find electric vehicles cost-effective, otherwise they'd put it off another year or two or three. It's not the average truck buyer that's pushing them toward electric (there's a deep vein of stupid in that market that loves big, noisy, smelly, engines), but I'm confident they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. I believe Ford making an electric truck means there's a market for electric trucks, whatever their limitations, at the price they can deliver them.
technofiend 7y ago
I own an F150 I inherited from my grandfather. As much as I lust after Teslas I wouldn't trade it for an electric for one simple reason: my F150 is what I drive if I must drive at all when it floods. AFAIK you cannot and should not submerge the motors or the battery on an electric car. Still, that's an edge case.
- plugger 7y ago
  Telsa model 3s act as boats during floods. Have a look at youtube, there are numerous videos of people stranded in their engine flooded car and a Tesla floats right by.
  - technofiend 7y ago
    And yet if I started a Tesla warranty climb with "So there I was, driving through several feet of water" I'm skeptical it would be approved. That was my point. Electrics are fantastic vehicles. I can't wait to own my first one, but they aren't yet built for every purpose. I don't think the Ford dealership would warrant me driving an F-150 through several feet of water either but fixing the issues that come from it are a known quantity. Not so much with an electric pickup.