7 ms·

This has been discussed before and it has been true for me as well. I don't have a large, super-popular package I maintain, but several lesser known ones, some

This has been discussed before and it has been true for me as well. I don't have a large, super-popular package I maintain, but several lesser known ones, some of which I wrote, and several of which I just adopted and passively became a maintainer over time. At some point the pressure from the community made me pass the magical threshold between fun/useful/rewarding and downright chore. It has permanently changed my perception of OSS management, to the point that I stopped releasing further projects, no matter how small, simply due to the work that these entail. Just look at the discussions you find here monthly about being "a good author/maintainer/leader", where most expect full documentation, professional landing pages, useless code of conduct, and so on... BESIDES the project itself. You'll be criticized irregardless. I have deep respect for the maintainers of popular OSS projects because of the amount of s*it they must take. I know I wouldn't do it for free at these scales. I also wouldn't do it besides another job since it is so demanding.

kartan 7y ago
> You'll be criticized irregardless. For me this is one of our flaws as society. When we like something we just continue with our lives. When there is something that we do not like we stop to say so. One of the best learnings I got as a manager is to give positive feedback. So, employees know how much we appreciate their job, and that we see their value. And just that one time that it does not work out, I will give them feedback to improve. But, I realize how little I have applied this with OSS and on-line in general. I rarely stop to say thank your for your comment, it was informative. Even, that I may donate some money I never stop to say thank you to the maintainers of OSS. So, that's probably why you mainly hear complains and comments from seemly entitled people. Thank you for sharing your experience it gave me a perspective to think about.
- robertAngst 7y ago
  The download/view/session is decently valued. Or at least I value it.
mikekchar 7y ago
> useless code of conduct #Code of Conduct This is not a community project. This is my project. I know that will disappoint some people, but I do this for fun in my own spare time. If it stops being fun, I will stop working on it, which will pretty much kill the project. There are millions of projects in the world and the only reason they continue (if they actually do) is because the maintainers stubbornly stick at it. With that in mind, here is the code of conduct: If it is fun for me then it is good. If it is not fun for me, then it is not good. Things I find fun include: Bug reports that explain what you saw and what you expected to see. Suggestions for features that would make your life better. Stories of how the software so far has already made your life better. Entertaining stories of how you used the software (bonus points if it includes pictures of cats). Offers to volunteer to improve something (super bonus points if you actually improve it). Questions about how the software works. Offers to write documentation (super, executive class bonus points if you actually write some). Answering questions that other people ask (bonus points if you get the answers right). Things I don't find fun: Drama. That is all. To some extent, I will accept drama in exchange for money. But it has to be a lot of money. Think FANG level money. If you don't have FANG level money that you are willing to give me in exchange for drama, just don't do it -- even if you think it is the most important thing in the world. There is no other code of conduct. I may arbitrarily declare some things fun for me and some things not fun. Please pay attention when I declare one way or the other and act accordingly. Thank you.
- qaq 7y ago
  Are you OK with other people using this ? This looks to be the perfect #Code of Conduct
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    Feel free :-) I warn you that the only way I had the courage to write it was that I drank a considerable amount of nihonshu (Japanese sake). It was pink. The label said that the pink colour was a natural result of the kouji (aspergillus oryzae). I'm skeptical :-) But, in all seriousness, I've been thinking about it a lot and really the main thing, I think, is for everyone (even the maintainer) to avoid drama. If you find yourself in a dramatic situation that seems to have been caused by your actions, simply apologise for the drama that you have unintentionally invoked. I think that's all that is necessary.
mistrial9 7y ago
> useless code of conduct # Code of Conduct in the United States, the development of the Code of Conduct appears to be a mechanism, refined by lawyers, to make a legal case to -> kick someone out <- of an 'open' system The code of conduct uses words to describe desired outcomes of cooperation, but actually, it defines boundaries such that there is a specific reason to require a person with some behavior pattern, to leave, be blocked and removed from the project. Legally, if the project is declared 'open' then there was no way to require someone to leave, legally. IANAL
- not2b 7y ago
  Who told you that? The word "open" is one of the most overused words in American marketing, and has never been an implicit grant of rights to anyone. People were routinely banned from project mailing lists long before codes of conduct became common, and corporate projects labeled "open" were often completely closed.
  - watwut 7y ago
    I think that require to leave legally refers to situation where that person comes back again and again and again. So that you may use your lawyer to threaten him or his layer.
- rcw4256 7y ago
  You use the word 'legally'. Which laws are you referring to?
winter_blue 7y ago
I think a good policy to have would be to tell everyone: "if you have a feature request or if you find a bug, make a pull request implementing it (or fixing the bug)". For feature requests, perhaps it'll be good to encourage people to discuss it first, before they start implementing it. But make it very clear that you're not doing free work for anyone simply because they ask. (And that this is open-source project, and everyone is expected to contribute.)
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  I do some work in a project with this rule, and I hate it because the end effect is no one place to track bugs and known issues. Not every bug needs to be fixed, and they certainly don't need to be fixed immediately. But it's useful to know that they are there!
dennisgorelik 7y ago
> You'll be criticized irregardless. You are implying that criticism is bad. But criticism is not bad. Negative feedback is, usually, eve more useful than positive feedback.
dTal 7y ago
>You'll be criticized irregardless Friendly heads-up that 'irregardless' is not a real word, rather a mashup between 'irrespective' and 'regardless', either of which alone will do. It's particularly one to avoid because it's probably in the top five of "words that irritate sticklers", who will judge you for it.

kartan 7y ago

> You'll be criticized irregardless. For me this is one of our flaws as society. When we like something we just continue with our lives. When there is something that we do not like we stop to say so. One of the best learnings I got as a manager is to give positive feedback. So, employees know how much we appreciate their job, and that we see their value. And just that one time that it does not work out, I will give them feedback to improve. But, I realize how little I have applied this with OSS and on-line in general. I rarely stop to say thank your for your comment, it was informative. Even, that I may donate some money I never stop to say thank you to the maintainers of OSS. So, that's probably why you mainly hear complains and comments from seemly entitled people. Thank you for sharing your experience it gave me a perspective to think about.

robertAngst 7y ago
The download/view/session is decently valued. Or at least I value it.

mikekchar 7y ago

> useless code of conduct #Code of Conduct This is not a community project. This is my project. I know that will disappoint some people, but I do this for fun in my own spare time. If it stops being fun, I will stop working on it, which will pretty much kill the project. There are millions of projects in the world and the only reason they continue (if they actually do) is because the maintainers stubbornly stick at it. With that in mind, here is the code of conduct: If it is fun for me then it is good. If it is not fun for me, then it is not good. Things I find fun include: Bug reports that explain what you saw and what you expected to see. Suggestions for features that would make your life better. Stories of how the software so far has already made your life better. Entertaining stories of how you used the software (bonus points if it includes pictures of cats). Offers to volunteer to improve something (super bonus points if you actually improve it). Questions about how the software works. Offers to write documentation (super, executive class bonus points if you actually write some). Answering questions that other people ask (bonus points if you get the answers right). Things I don't find fun: Drama. That is all. To some extent, I will accept drama in exchange for money. But it has to be a lot of money. Think FANG level money. If you don't have FANG level money that you are willing to give me in exchange for drama, just don't do it -- even if you think it is the most important thing in the world. There is no other code of conduct. I may arbitrarily declare some things fun for me and some things not fun. Please pay attention when I declare one way or the other and act accordingly. Thank you.

qaq 7y ago
Are you OK with other people using this ? This looks to be the perfect #Code of Conduct
- mikekchar 7y ago
  Feel free :-) I warn you that the only way I had the courage to write it was that I drank a considerable amount of nihonshu (Japanese sake). It was pink. The label said that the pink colour was a natural result of the kouji (aspergillus oryzae). I'm skeptical :-) But, in all seriousness, I've been thinking about it a lot and really the main thing, I think, is for everyone (even the maintainer) to avoid drama. If you find yourself in a dramatic situation that seems to have been caused by your actions, simply apologise for the drama that you have unintentionally invoked. I think that's all that is necessary.

mistrial9 7y ago

> useless code of conduct # Code of Conduct in the United States, the development of the Code of Conduct appears to be a mechanism, refined by lawyers, to make a legal case to -> kick someone out <- of an 'open' system The code of conduct uses words to describe desired outcomes of cooperation, but actually, it defines boundaries such that there is a specific reason to require a person with some behavior pattern, to leave, be blocked and removed from the project. Legally, if the project is declared 'open' then there was no way to require someone to leave, legally. IANAL

not2b 7y ago
Who told you that? The word "open" is one of the most overused words in American marketing, and has never been an implicit grant of rights to anyone. People were routinely banned from project mailing lists long before codes of conduct became common, and corporate projects labeled "open" were often completely closed.
- watwut 7y ago
  I think that require to leave legally refers to situation where that person comes back again and again and again. So that you may use your lawyer to threaten him or his layer.
rcw4256 7y ago
You use the word 'legally'. Which laws are you referring to?

winter_blue 7y ago

I think a good policy to have would be to tell everyone: "if you have a feature request or if you find a bug, make a pull request implementing it (or fixing the bug)". For feature requests, perhaps it'll be good to encourage people to discuss it first, before they start implementing it. But make it very clear that you're not doing free work for anyone simply because they ask. (And that this is open-source project, and everyone is expected to contribute.)

lazyasciiart 7y ago
I do some work in a project with this rule, and I hate it because the end effect is no one place to track bugs and known issues. Not every bug needs to be fixed, and they certainly don't need to be fixed immediately. But it's useful to know that they are there!

dennisgorelik 7y ago

> You'll be criticized irregardless. You are implying that criticism is bad. But criticism is not bad. Negative feedback is, usually, eve more useful than positive feedback.

dTal 7y ago

>You'll be criticized irregardless Friendly heads-up that 'irregardless' is not a real word, rather a mashup between 'irrespective' and 'regardless', either of which alone will do. It's particularly one to avoid because it's probably in the top five of "words that irritate sticklers", who will judge you for it.