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The 2018 MacBook Air is the iPhone X’s ASP strategy all over again
- java-man 8y agothan and the original title is different.
- ape4 8y agoThey use helium to make it lighter (joke)
- hencoappel 8y agoA reference to the article about helium breaking iPhones?
- PhantomGremlin 8y agoThe article is wrong when it says: Absolutely nobody who knows anything about Macs – or computers of any kind – is going to recommend that they buy the old model. Two things better on the old model: keyboard and MagSafe. I'm glad I own an older Macbook Pro Retina. I'd always have "keyboard anxiety" with any of the new models: is this the day my keyboard fails? And: do I dare take my laptop outside? Will airborne dust get into the keyboard mechanism? Bah!
- sys_64738 8y agoMagSafe is very cool and given the investment in power bricks I have around here it'll be a hard habit to break. For me the most interesting aspect here is knowing there's an upgrade path now for legacy MBA and Mini owners. Legacy MBA owners don't generally want modern MBP laptops due to price/keyboard/etc but don't want the MB either as it looks like a toy.
- falcolas 8y agoNot to mention that CPU technology hasn't advanced sufficiently to render the old model obsolete. Most, if not all, tasks you can do on the new model can still be done quite competently on the old model.
- pier25 8y agoI bought a 2017 MBA for $800 a couple of months back for my wife and, with all its faults, I think it's a better deal than the new 2018 MBA. Other than the outdated display, performance is perfectly adequate, and battery/trackpad/keyboard/SSD speed/ports are still doing great.
- rconti 8y agoI'm split. I have a 2011 Air that I rarely use. The 4MB of RAM and slower CPU is the major problem with it; screen resolution is a distant third. I keep thinking of buying the most modern USB-A-and-SD-card-reader-equipped AirI can find, because it truly is the best machine I've owned. On the other hand, new and shiny! And I almost never use the SD card reader or USB port, it's just nice to have. And the keyboard is fantastic.
- pier25 8y agoThe good thing is now you should be able to find great deals on the 2017 model.
- lambda_lover 8y agoFor friends who don't care about how pretty or color accurate their display is, the old Air can't be beat.
- xoa 8y ago>The article is wrong when it says: "Absolutely nobody who knows anything about Macs – or computers of any kind – is going to recommend that they buy the old model." You're absolutely correct here, though I disagree with you on saying the "keyboard and MagSafe were better" is necessarily the reason. It's more fundamental, this is one of those "things everyone knows" that was a product of its time and is rapidly (or long since) obsolete but will no doubt linger for a while. When it comes to "computers" (as in traditional desktops/notebooks) that probably stopped being true at least a half a decade ago or more. It's not the 90s or 00s anymore, a decent 8 year old system can still be a solid performer (perhaps needing an SSD upgrade at that age, but SSD improvements have now slowed too). Getting an "old model" that meets ones needs at a significant discount will probably be how many people get their systems. The newest will carry a bigger premium. Mobile systems are now going that way too. A 2-3 year old iPhone is still a fine device and can count on years more of software support from the mothership. That looks to be Apple's new plan for addressing different price points: rather then build new "entry point/midrange/high end" models each year, the "entry point" is simply "the model from 2 years ago", the midrange is "last year" and the high end is the newest.
- Synaesthesia 8y agoBecause it’s smaller?
- geodel 8y agoI think weight wise MacBook Air is not much lighter than MacBook Pro 13". But it is about 500 dollar cheaper than MBP with newer 8th gen processor. I guess will wait until MBA gets cheaper or cheaper MBPs get new processor and keyboard.
- pier25 8y ago> and keyboard I'm also waiting for new keyboards but I fear it will take a couple of years. I imagine a new keyboard means a complete redesign, and considering the new MBPs were released in late 2016 I doubt we will see new models before 2020. Apple used to release new Mac models ever 2-3 years but the Mac line is not a priority anymore (it's only 10% of Apple's revenue).
- rectang 8y agoWeren't the keyboard reliability issues largely addressed with the addition of membranes which keep out debris? Or is it a change of feel that you're hoping for?
- SyneRyder 8y agoAnecdata, but I've heard of people with the 3rd-gen keyboards with the membranes having the same problems. https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/10/16/the-2018-macbook-keyboards-have-the-same-old-problems/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/10/16/the-2018-macbook-keyboard... https://twitter.com/arno_app/status/1056943680249061383 https://twitter.com/arno_app/status/1056943680249061383
- geodel 8y agoI think MBP 2018 and new MBA have different keyboards. MBP just added improvements but MBA one is called 3rd gen keyboards.
- mh8h 8y agoThe first gen was the first 12" Macbook. The second gen was the MBP with the high failure rate. The 3rd gen was the design with the additional membrane that was introduced with the MBP update earlier this year.
- utopcell 8y agoNot sure I agree that the Macbook is "an inferior machine at a higher price". At 12", it is the only <13" offering currently.
- Hamuko 8y agoWhat do you gain with picking a 12-inch display over a 13.3-inch display?
- yoz-y 8y agoIs this a trick question? If you are in the market for a smaller than 13” computer then that’s that.
- randyrand 8y agomore portability.
- charlesju 8y agoAs someone that loves his Macbook, I thought I'd give some context for my decision to buy the Macbook and why I'd still probably the Macbook if I had to choose again today. It really comes down to two things 1. Weight 2. Tolerable Performance The Macbook I have has a 1.4 GHz Core i7 and 16 GB of ram. Very rarely do I feel that I have issues with the daily things I need to do with the mac, which are some light programming/scripting/SQL and even hums when I have to do spreadsheets and manage multiple websites. Given the performance is very good by real life standards, the weight is really the big issue to consider. This is a considerable amount of difference between 2.03lbs and 2.75lbs. That's 35% lighter, that's a huge percentage when you have to drag your laptop around everywhere with you. I would gladly pay up to $1000 for that weight cut because of how much better my quality of life is with a smaller and more portable Macbook. For me, I need to have my computer with me everywhere I go: dinner, hiking, vacations, etc. Having it do everything I want in a reasonable performance threshold and being 35% lighter, the Macbook is still by far the superior product.
- akshayB 8y agoApple have created a mess by providing multiple options between Airs and Pros. If you upgrade the RAM to 16GB on Air it surpasses the base model of Pro and similarly other storage options. At that point you should rather buy a Pro over Air because the only major difference is size. Lot of this is totally confusing for non-technical folks and they might just end-up making a wrong purchase.
- gok 8y agoNote that the Pros have meaningfully faster CPUs/GPUs than the Airs at every configuration.
- mbell 8y agoYou're largely ignoring the primary differentiator in these machines, the power class of the CPU/GPU. If you use the base model in each category, set all the machines at 256GB disk and 16GB of ram and use geekbench cpu numbers as a performance metric, you get the table below. Also geekebench is a pretty short test, I would guess that the core-m / y-series models will fall further behind under sustained loads. I don't think this is a particularly bad spread of options. 2017 Macbook - 1.2Ghz dual, 3.0Ghz T - $1499 GBS:3740 GBM:6835 2018 Macbook Air* - 1.6Ghz dual, 3.6Ghz T - $1599 GBS:4189 GBM:7896 2017 Macbook Pro 13 (non-TB) - 2.3Ghz dual, 3.6Ghz T - $1699 GBS:4333 GBM:9440 2018 Macbook Pro 13 (TB-quad) - 2.3Ghz quad, 3.6Ghz T - $1999 GBS:4643 GBM:16540 [*] For the 2018 Macbook Air I'm using geekbench numbers for the higher end 7th gen Y-series CPU as I can't find any benchmarks for the i5-8210Y so this should be considered an estimate.
- xoa 8y agoSo I did a search in the article for the word "inflation" and found no hits, but I think it's something that the tech world is going to have to start getting used to after decades in the steep part of a S-curve that let it defy the normal. In most of the developed world at least inflation is generally quite low, but it's not zero (nor is zero or worse deflation a healthy sign). For electronics there has been a long time where constant improvements in process technology, efficiency, mass manufacturing tech, and just plain ever larger scales as it went global, meant that every year or two allowed more to be done cheaper. But at this point that's heavily played out. Progress is certainly not "done" by any means, and the slowdown is uneven (GPUs still scale more easily for example), but it's not exponential or essentially "free" anymore either. Bumping into harder physics means process shrinks keep getting harder and vastly more expensive for less gains, the low hanging frequency improvements and IPC has been picked, a lot of the trivial vectorization and parallelism done, hyper cheap mass labor utilized, the easy parts of the global market gobbled up, etc. There are also softer issues like inequality to deal with and in turn a wider spread in prices people might pay. So tech companies are going to face a more "normal" world, where no a device from a year ago or two years ago or even 5 or more years ago isn't necessarily "obsolete". That means they'll need to figure out how to start raising prices over time just to keep pace with inflation let alone secure more growth when expanding marketshare or cutting costs is ever harder. But the public has been conditioned for a very long time to expect prices to always stay the "same" (which really means it's falling in real terms over time) or outright drops on the sticker price. Figuring out how to navigate that to a new normal without promoting undue backlash is something everyone will need to grapple with. One approach that Apple may be going for is to just take some pages from mature areas like cars, where there is a huge premium for "brand new", and large percentages of the population are fine getting used or "last year's that didn't sell" (let alone an "old model but newly manufactured" which isn't really a thing with cars) and will never buy brand new their entire lives. But "old" models still get support for a long time and to the basic job fine. Other strategies of course include trying to shift more into ongoing services revenue, platform monetization (be it a cut of software sales or ads), premium support offerings, etc. Different players will try different mixes. But nobody will be able to avoid it anymore then other industries, at least not unless some other huge productivity shift (automation related perhaps) happens.
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- rconti 8y agoInteresting theory about the iPhone X being "obviously different" than the lower end iPhones last year, and how it would immediately signal if you had the 'latest' device or not. I suppose that's somewhat inarguable in terms of the iPhone ecosystem, particularly when powered on, but my favorite thing about my X last year (and especially now) is how anonymous it is. With a generic black quad lock case on a black phone, sitting face-up on a table, literally all you can see is black, and a tiny slit for an earpiece. If you look REALLY closely you can see the camera next to the earpiece. There's no home button to say "this is an iPhone", or advertise whether it's a touchID home button or an even older physical home button. It could be absolutely anything. The only real giveaway is when it's on, or if you put it face down; the stacked cameras were fairly distinctive. I mean, I certainly didn't choose it over some other phone merely because WASN'T flashy, but I'm a lot happier buying something that doesn't advertise itself.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jiveturkey 8y agoimho that is some serious rationalization. you likely don’t see yourself as a flashy person so you have to construct a reality where the phone is the extreme of that — anonymous. i have news for you. for anyone that does care, you can tell an iphone X all the way across the bar.
- overcyn 8y agoWhy are you criticizing someone's personal aesthetic preferences? So you think that the iPhone X isn't understated. Doesn't mean that someone who disagrees is doing "serious rationalization" or "constructing a reality".
- jiveturkey 8y agoYou've misread. I wouldn't dare to and I'm not criticizing someone's personal aesthetic preferences. I'm commenting on their projection of their desired reality onto the real reality.
- fouc 8y agoAuthor is implying that ASP is rising for the Macs, but he didn't look at prices in the last 10-15 years.
- cmsj 8y agoASP is rising in the last couple of years, but it's only recently crossed the level it was at a decade ago.
- slivym 8y agoTo be honest I think this article is making a lot off nothing. TL;DR: New models, higher prices. Keep the old models just in case someone is super price sensitive. It's not rocket science is it.
- pentae 8y agoThe worst part is that for many of us, we'd be happier to pay the higher price but Apples giving us LESS. A worse keyboard, no magsafe, no USB-A, worse thermal management, less reliable, more expensive and difficult to maintain.. the list goes on. If the new machines weren't a big step backwards in some areas it would be a much easier pill to swallow.
- oculusthrift 8y agostill not sure why we have both a "macbook" and "macbook air". they seem to occupy the same market segment. i thought apple was all about minimizing choices.
- sithadmin 8y agoJob's Apple was about minimizing choices. At this point, Apple is nearly back to the mid-90's state of having an assortment of overlapping products that compete against each other due to overlapping pricing.
- mrpippy 8y agoThey are a lot more similar than they were when the MacBook came out a few years ago. However, the MacBook is fanless (which also means much slower) and smaller/thinner/lighter than the Air. Will the MacBook stay around? I suspect Apple is quite disillusioned with the performance that Intel offers in this TDP range, and the MacBook will either get dropped or go ARM.
- 4ad 8y agoThe MB uses a 5W CPU, the Air uses a 7W CPU, still miles behind the performance of real laptop CPUs like those found in the Pro line. If you need to decide between MB and MB Air, performance should't enter into it, it's almost the same.
- fetus8 8y agoI have a feeling that in the next year, the macbook may disappear again. I know others have mentioned the size and weight being a huge draw for the macbook, but I can't imagine at it's current price, many people will pick it. I could see Apple just dropping it again and focusing on the Air/Pro lineup.
- rickyc091 8y agoWorking with kids, I actually see parents purchasing middle schoolers MacBooks over MacBook Airs. As the kids enter high school, they often opt for the MacBook Air over the pros. I suspect as they get into college, they'll end up with the MacBook Pro.
- selimnairb 8y agoMy first reaction to the new MacBook Airs was, gee I could use that to replace my 15” 2015 MBP. I’ve been wanting a machine with TouchID, but I don’t like the touch bar and like a physical escape key. With cloud work becoming more prevalent, maybe 2 cores and 16 GB is enough.
- hartator 8y agoJust ordered one for dev work. Hopefully it’s enough.
- gambiting 8y agoI almost did as well, and then I saw that they are equipped with the "Y" series of CPUs, so extremely underpowered 5W-limited series that normally goes in the basic Macbook or fanless tablets. It looks like they have completely neutered the CPU in the Air, where it no longer is a machine intended for anything more than light web browsing. It really shouldn't be called an Air - more like Macbook XL(Or Max, or whatever the current nomenclature is).
- hartator 8y agoYeah, MacBook 13" would have been a better product name. I've read contradictory things online for the projected performance of the i5-8200Y chip. The good news might be it's actually 7W and it has a fan. Maybe we can expect performance closer to the MB pro nTB 13".
- 4ad 8y ago> the 12-inch MacBook is still there in the line-up, price unchanged. It makes no sense: it’s an inferior machine at a higher price. But it will find a market with those who know nothing about technology and simply want the sleekest possible device. Meh, what a load of BS. I know a lot about technology and prefer the 12-inch. Form factor matters, both to professionals like myself and to "people who know nothing about technology".
- 40acres 8y agoThe Macbook and iPhone lines are really mature. They've both been around for a decade now, Apple is doing a good job of continuing to squeeze the juice out of these fruits and these sort of strategies are textbook when it comes to executing on a mature product line. I think Apple's biggest question is what's next? The Apple Watch is really starting to hit's its groove and I think within the next few years will become a really fantastic product (even moreso than now) but what's next?
- jackbrookes 8y agoI think with apples push of AR on iOS its clear that they are thinking about a future in AR glasses. They'll have a huge advantage over others if they can make existing ARKit apps work on a pair of spectacles. Glasses also fit with Apples "fashion" branding. People on HN seem to downplay how amazing a good AR glasses product can be. Any information in the world (from restaurant menus to road signs) can now become interactive, animated, personalised, and 3D. The killer feature I believe will be having face-to-face meeting using AR glasses. Oculus put it well in their recent keynote: cities are build such that people can be close in close proximity for meeting face to face. People are willing to spend thousand of dollars to fly across the globe for a face to face meeting. With video and voice call you can only go so far. AR glasses (maybe even VR) can get you pretty close to what you would find in real life, and even some added features like being able to write in the air and pull out virtual 3D models. But, the tech is still a long way off.
- mikhailt 8y agoAll of their hardware are mature, what’s next need to be the software. iOS is way too limited for what the hardware can do. macOS is way too slow compared to what Windows feels like on the same Mac hardware. They need to focus on the software right now.
- ghostly_s 8y ago> macOS is way too slow compared to what Windows feels like on the same Mac hardware. What are you smoking?
- hapless 8y agoIs ASP rising faster than the cost of goods sold?
- dmode 8y agoI just browsed Apple's site to compare the models and it confused the heck out of me. https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/ https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/ The MacBook, new Air, and 13 inch Pro are roughly priced the same with very few discernible differences. An average buyer would be very confused.
- kkylin 8y agoThe choice now seems to be weight XOR battery life XOR performance, whereas one used to be able to get 2 out of 3 IMO.
- abrowne 8y agoIt looks like the new Air has a 7 W chip, more like an active-cooled MacBook, while the non-TB Pro has a 15 W chip like the old Air. Only the TB MacBook Pro 13-inch has a 28 W chip. But I know how to and what to look up. For most people: super confusing.
- jzl 8y agoBest comparison chart I've seen so far: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/30/18042744/apple-macbook-air-2018-vs-pro-comparison-specs-features-best https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/30/18042744/...
- otikik 8y agoFor those who wonder, like me, if Apple is doing Active Server Pages: "ASP" means "Average Selling Price".
- zomg 8y agoWhat the author is really discussing is Apple's PRICING strategy. This has nothing to do with ASP, which is an internal metric that I doubt external to Apple is privy to.