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In theory. In practice, this has lead to collapse of rural economies, rampant poverty, and epidemic drug usage amongst rural populations. As to driving food cos

In theory. In practice, this has lead to collapse of rural economies, rampant poverty, and epidemic drug usage amongst rural populations. As to driving food costs down, that's trivially disprovable. Loaf of bread in 1950: 12 cents. Adjusted for inflation that's $1.26 currently. A cheap loaf of white bread costs substantially more than $1.26. Edit: of course this gets downvoted, because econ gibberish is certainly more valid than observed reality.

dexterdog 8y ago
First, my local stop n shop sells a loaf of white bread for $1.29 and that's not even a sale price. Second the average income has gone up by more than inflation as well so you would expect the cost of staples to go up accordingly.
- 8note 8y ago
  is that including the richest folks in the average or not? my understanding is that other than the top 10% or so, average income is not keeping up with inflation
  - WillPostForFood 8y ago
    Median income adjusted for inflation, has been growing, albeit very slowly, for all groups, including the bottom quintile (+6.7%). https://static.businessinsider.com/image/59bc19b538d20d7f378b6429-750.jpg https://static.businessinsider.com/image/59bc19b538d20d7f378...
- jimbokun 8y ago
  So you prove knieveltech correct, the price of bread has not gone down despite whatever productivity advances may have come about since then.
  - albertgoeswoof 8y ago
    No because the average person can afford a lot more bread now than they could in 1950. But bread is not the best argument as it’s cheap to make even in the 50s. Go buy a roast chicken and compare that price and you’ll see a difference
- knieveltech 8y ago
  Average income hasn't even kept pace with inflation since the 70's, go take a look at a graph of income inequality over time if you're curious where all those productivity gains went, you prove my point regarding no measurable drop in food prices (incidentally a loaf of bread is closer to $2.00 here), and would anyone care to take a crack at the larger criticism, namely total economic collapse of vast swaths of rural America or is "well, actually" over the price of a fucking loaf of bread the best HN can do?
  - dexterdog 8y ago
    You're the one that was calling the bread argument invalid and "trivially disprovable." Also, average income has more than kept pace with inflation since the 50s which is the arbitrary starting point that you chose in your first argument, but shifted to the 70s in this counter for some reason. That still doesn't help you as the avg income in 1970 was 10556.03 (39081 in 2017 dollars) and 50321 in 2017. (source https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html)
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
A cheap loaf of white bread costs substantially more than $1.26. Actually that's about exactly what it costs at Walmart. I wanna say it's $1.28 but I'm not 100% sure. Granted that's literally the cheapest loaf of bread you can buy not an average nothing special loaf of bread.
- ben_w 8y ago
  Food prices are confusing. Back in the UK I could get cheap loaves of bread for 55p ($0.71 at current exchange rate), while here in Berlin I see them for €0.59 in mid-range brands for a slightly smaller loaf that works out as $1.08 when adjusted for size as well as current exchange rate.
- DanBC 8y ago
  I know this isn't the point of this sub thread, but in UKthe prices are: The cheapest loaf of bread I can buy is 36pence or $0.47 A 250 g pack of butter is £1.45 or $1.88 A 450 g jar of thin cut orange marmalade is 49p or $0.64 This is from Lidl.
  - albertgoeswoof 8y ago
    And includes sales tax And you don’t have to tip the cashier /s
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      Why would you want it to include sales tax. If the government is taking a cut of a transaction the people should be well aware of it.
      - tbarker25 8y ago
        It's somewhat anti-consumer for the price listed to be different to what you end up paying. A receipt in Australia for example will display total:$10 including $0.90 sales tax. it is illegal to display a price that doesn't include it.
boomboomsubban 8y ago
Your observed reality knows the price of bread in 1950, the price adjusted for inflation, but not the current price.
- dexterdog 8y ago
  It's one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?
deepnotderp 8y ago
He actually seems to have something of a point: https://seekingalpha.com/article/92689-over-the-past-100-years-food-prices-have-fallen-by-82-percent https://seekingalpha.com/article/92689-over-the-past-100-yea... Note in figure 3 the gains since 1950 have been a lot less than from 1920 to 1950. 1950s and afterwards the gains have been a lot less.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
A loaf of good-quality sandwich bread can easily go for $5, but cheap white can be had for around a dollar in most places.
whatusername 8y ago
Really? The cheap loaves of bread in australia are $1 (that's in dollarydoos - so it works out to 0.71c in the US.) There's no state sales tax beyond that -- and the minimum wage is 18.93 dollarydoos (13.38).

dexterdog 8y ago

First, my local stop n shop sells a loaf of white bread for $1.29 and that's not even a sale price. Second the average income has gone up by more than inflation as well so you would expect the cost of staples to go up accordingly.

8note 8y ago
is that including the richest folks in the average or not? my understanding is that other than the top 10% or so, average income is not keeping up with inflation
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  Median income adjusted for inflation, has been growing, albeit very slowly, for all groups, including the bottom quintile (+6.7%). https://static.businessinsider.com/image/59bc19b538d20d7f378b6429-750.jpg https://static.businessinsider.com/image/59bc19b538d20d7f378...
jimbokun 8y ago
So you prove knieveltech correct, the price of bread has not gone down despite whatever productivity advances may have come about since then.
- albertgoeswoof 8y ago
  No because the average person can afford a lot more bread now than they could in 1950. But bread is not the best argument as it’s cheap to make even in the 50s. Go buy a roast chicken and compare that price and you’ll see a difference
knieveltech 8y ago
Average income hasn't even kept pace with inflation since the 70's, go take a look at a graph of income inequality over time if you're curious where all those productivity gains went, you prove my point regarding no measurable drop in food prices (incidentally a loaf of bread is closer to $2.00 here), and would anyone care to take a crack at the larger criticism, namely total economic collapse of vast swaths of rural America or is "well, actually" over the price of a fucking loaf of bread the best HN can do?
- dexterdog 8y ago
  You're the one that was calling the bread argument invalid and "trivially disprovable." Also, average income has more than kept pace with inflation since the 50s which is the arbitrary starting point that you chose in your first argument, but shifted to the 70s in this counter for some reason. That still doesn't help you as the avg income in 1970 was 10556.03 (39081 in 2017 dollars) and 50321 in 2017. (source https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html)

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

A cheap loaf of white bread costs substantially more than $1.26. Actually that's about exactly what it costs at Walmart. I wanna say it's $1.28 but I'm not 100% sure. Granted that's literally the cheapest loaf of bread you can buy not an average nothing special loaf of bread.

ben_w 8y ago
Food prices are confusing. Back in the UK I could get cheap loaves of bread for 55p ($0.71 at current exchange rate), while here in Berlin I see them for €0.59 in mid-range brands for a slightly smaller loaf that works out as $1.08 when adjusted for size as well as current exchange rate.
DanBC 8y ago
I know this isn't the point of this sub thread, but in UKthe prices are: The cheapest loaf of bread I can buy is 36pence or $0.47 A 250 g pack of butter is £1.45 or $1.88 A 450 g jar of thin cut orange marmalade is 49p or $0.64 This is from Lidl.
- albertgoeswoof 8y ago
  And includes sales tax And you don’t have to tip the cashier /s
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    Why would you want it to include sales tax. If the government is taking a cut of a transaction the people should be well aware of it.
    - tbarker25 8y ago
      It's somewhat anti-consumer for the price listed to be different to what you end up paying. A receipt in Australia for example will display total:$10 including $0.90 sales tax. it is illegal to display a price that doesn't include it.

boomboomsubban 8y ago

Your observed reality knows the price of bread in 1950, the price adjusted for inflation, but not the current price.

dexterdog 8y ago
It's one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?

deepnotderp 8y ago

He actually seems to have something of a point: https://seekingalpha.com/article/92689-over-the-past-100-years-food-prices-have-fallen-by-82-percent https://seekingalpha.com/article/92689-over-the-past-100-yea... Note in figure 3 the gains since 1950 have been a lot less than from 1920 to 1950. 1950s and afterwards the gains have been a lot less.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

A loaf of good-quality sandwich bread can easily go for $5, but cheap white can be had for around a dollar in most places.

whatusername 8y ago

Really? The cheap loaves of bread in australia are $1 (that's in dollarydoos - so it works out to 0.71c in the US.) There's no state sales tax beyond that -- and the minimum wage is 18.93 dollarydoos (13.38).